# Does anyone notice nobody talks and local anymore **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [May 7, 2019, 11:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/does-anyone-notice-nobody-talks-and-local-anymore/157620 "2019-05-07T23:22:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 1:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/does-anyone-notice-nobody-talks-and-local-anymore/157620/144 "2019-05-13T01:30:39Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > That site is biased and the viewpoints expressed in it are one-sided. I didn’t link the site for it’s view points or philosophies. But to show that toxic behaviour isn’t unique to gankers. ---
**Author:** ![Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/herzog_wolfhammer/32/452132_2.png) [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Herzog_Wolfhammer)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 1:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/does-anyone-notice-nobody-talks-and-local-anymore/157620/145 "2019-05-13T01:36:10Z")
But it’s the gankers who go out of their way to get it, catalog it, post it, and bandy it about, all the while spewing equally vile crap in local. Check. And what would someone in that same local, looking at those comments, think? Would it be: “Oh hey I want to chat with these people they seem like really cool guys!” Or “I don’t know what they are mad at, but I don’t want to draw their attention and find out”. It’s probably an even worse impression to someone who does not know the vernacular well enough, and noobs who never seen lowsec smack which goes both ways. I have the entire log BTW and nobody was saying anything back to them, meaning nobody was tweaking them. You still want to side with them and share their link like a toady? ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 1:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/does-anyone-notice-nobody-talks-and-local-anymore/157620/146 "2019-05-13T01:53:09Z")
> [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](#): > > You still want to side with them and share their link like a toady? I’m not siding with them. I’m siding against you and dishonesty. > [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](#): > > And what would someone in that same local, looking at those comments, think? Probably similar to wingspan making vids of torpedo deliveries and pvp corps making videos of themselves slam dunking other groups. Sharing stories attracts players. Would code be as famous and as big today without [minerbumping.com](http://minerbumping.com)? I don’t think so. Check and mate. ---
**Author:** ![Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/herzog_wolfhammer/32/452132_2.png) [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Herzog_Wolfhammer)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 3:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/does-anyone-notice-nobody-talks-and-local-anymore/157620/147 "2019-05-13T03:52:49Z")
I was not referring to chess when I said check. See what I mean when I say you are not reading? No. You have a one-track toady mind. I forget. Or maybe you are a low tier communicator. Some people just are. How big and famous would CODE. be if people were playing the game as much as they used to? And how much would they be talked about if people were still talking to each other in the game? ---
**Author:** ![LiChan\_LSG](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lichan_lsg/32/134119_2.png) [@LiChan\_LSG](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/LiChan_LSG)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 4:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/does-anyone-notice-nobody-talks-and-local-anymore/157620/148 "2019-05-13T04:12:15Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > I didn’t link the site for it’s view points or philosophies. But to show that toxic behaviour isn’t unique to gankers. Conclusion: Eve is full of toxic people and noone sane will pay to enter it … CCP i s doomed 🍿 ---
**Author:** ![Elena\_Laskova](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elena_laskova/32/11436_2.png) [@Elena\_Laskova](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elena_Laskova)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 6:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/does-anyone-notice-nobody-talks-and-local-anymore/157620/149 "2019-05-13T06:54:21Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > > [@Elena\_Laskova](#): > > > > You’re trying to initiate a loop., which is par for the course I suppose, but at least you didn’t lead with an ad hom this time, so you gain a few points for that. > > You’re trying to make me prove myself with a trigger ready to say; > > ‘no that doesn’t count’ > > 🙄 I want you to back up two claims with supporting facts. I believe you’ve used a fallacious argument ( **Argumentum ad populum** ) for the second (quoted below). The only way to counter it is to ask for supporting facts, so that’s what I’ve done. The “loop” in question is a distract/derail tactic, which you tried to initiate when I asked you to support thus claim: > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > it’s widely acknowledged that carebears and ‘would-be’ victims like Herzog\_Wolfhammer are often the ones lashing out making personal attacks and being toxic. I expect that the names you use will not turn out to be the kind of calm, rational, and polite poster you need to support claims criticizing other posters for poor behavior (as summarized by words like toxic). In response you tried this: > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > It’s pretty typical that you ask me to prove myself but say I’m not allowed to include a non-specific group. > > I have some links ready, but first you list for me who you consider ‘guardians’. Since my condition could (at the cost of some simplification) be restated as “you can’t use toxic posters to support a claim that someone else is toxic”, your comment reads as an attempt to enter a discussion about who is/isn’t toxic inside an existing discussion about who is/isn’t toxic. BTW: Strictly speaking it’s recursion rather than a loop, but I wanted to keep things simple. So back to your claims that there are a significant number of polite, constructive posters who can back up your claim: it’s highly implausible. You need to provide some links to support it. And no more discussion about my requirement for it to be people who aren’t themselves in the habit of doing the specific things you mention (_personal attacks and being toxic_). It should be obvious that such people are not eligible to support your claim. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 7:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/does-anyone-notice-nobody-talks-and-local-anymore/157620/150 "2019-05-13T07:09:00Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > He’s singled out gankers in the post you’ve quoted and then thrown a wobbler when i show how would-be ‘victims’ react when ganked (or proven wrong on the forums). > > You’re saying what you need to say to defend his disproportionate reaction. You stated above that you did that because you felt he said gankers were the only toxic players, he did not. He was talking about gankers, but he never said that they were the only toxic people, he just talked about the most in your face one. And you know as well me, that linking that website and talking about RL threats when people have been pushed into a frothing rage is like saying calm down miners on the forum. It is not a quote, you felt that. As I am too smart to be ganked I have not blown up at them, they have directed a number of personal attacks at me on that website too, the links are in my Bio. I have blown up at myself when I did something stupid because being competitive is fine. On the other side of things I have had people call me all manner of things in the past, some of the insults I got when killing mission runners in Stain were epic, but I found their reaction to real loss in a game that means something perfectly normal and did not take offense. You should learn from that. You posted some great ideas about war decs, I know you are a smart and effective player. But one of the reasons for the lack of contact by players in local for example is because people keep their heads down so as not to be targets. Herzog nailed it. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 8:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/does-anyone-notice-nobody-talks-and-local-anymore/157620/151 "2019-05-13T08:34:28Z")
LSG! A MALE char for a change! I wonder how long it’ll last this time! ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 8:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/does-anyone-notice-nobody-talks-and-local-anymore/157620/152 "2019-05-13T08:37:51Z")
> [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](#): > > But it’s the gankers who go out of their way to get it, catalog it, post it, and bandy it about, all the while spewing equally vile crap in local. You’re talking about me, too, you know? I’m not like this at all. Never have been. I block the assholes who can’t take getting shot down and I petition them immediately because I have absolutely no tolerance for being told my uncle raped me, my father raped me, my family should die in a painfull, horrible death and all the other ■■■■■■■■ I report them for. And all **I** did was shooting them down **without** contacting them! Remember: I do not spread the CODE! Never have! You know that! You probably clearly remember my opposition on past forums! Are you saying I’m the only exception? Or maybe you’re unintentionally making a mistake claiming that all gankers are like this? Have you considered that, maybe, you’re wrong and that there’s a good reason why gankers, of all people, are the ones who receive the most toxic responses and that it might actually not be because they’re literally asking for it? Tell me … how much thought did you put into actually understanding why ■■■■■■ up people say ■■■■■■ up ■■■■ to others who shoot them down in a video game, without automatically thinking about them as if they were victims? Because they’re not victims at all, unless you call them real life victims, which would be way outside the realm of the game itself. Do tell, please … I’m curious. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 9:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/does-anyone-notice-nobody-talks-and-local-anymore/157620/154 "2019-05-13T09:09:26Z")
> [@Solecist\_Project](#): > > gankers, of all people, are the ones who receive the most toxic responses and that it might actually not be because they’re literally asking for it? try to cloaky camp in null. Or try to snatch loot from explorers in HS or try to hunt explorers in LS. Then you have the data to make a correct evaluation of “who received the most [strike]toxic[/strike] aggressing responses” ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 9:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/does-anyone-notice-nobody-talks-and-local-anymore/157620/155 "2019-05-13T09:22:39Z")
When I along with some corp mates went on a shooting spree on mission runners in Stain I received quite few threats and insults in the heat of what was for them quite annoying and frustrating losses. I never once reported them, and the reason is simple, I know that in this game where losing stuff has consequences in terms of loss of effort and time in a competitive game matters, and that people are only human and will vent their frustration. You are calling them fecked up people, but letting out anger like that is better for people rather than bottling it up. And Herzog has been quite clear from the start that he is talking about people who wind up people after ganking them to get them in a frothing rage and it is that which he is criticising. So here is what I did when I received a mail or something in local giving me threats and insults and other such things, I ignored it, I did not double down and go after them to get them even more pissed off, I deescalated it by not responding because for me playing a game to blow up pixels, blowing up said pixels was all that I was after and in all my many years of playing competitive games I have seen so many people lose their cool when losing. I am not here to police people having issues over losses, and I have no desire for them to leave the game after losing a ship and get a warning from CCP to add to it. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 9:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/does-anyone-notice-nobody-talks-and-local-anymore/157620/156 "2019-05-13T09:48:03Z")
> [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](#): > > How big and famous would CODE. be if people were playing the game as much as they used to? And how much would they be talked about if people were still talking to each other in the game? I’m not sure the attention given to code is a function of population and local chatter if that’s what you’re trying to say. People talk about code and ganking as much today as 4-5 years ago. > [@Elena\_Laskova](#): > > And no more discussion about my requirement for it to be people who aren’t themselves in the habit of doing the specific things you mention ( _personal attacks and being toxic_ ). It should be obvious that such people are not eligible to support your claim. So now we’re not allowed to talk about the non-specific and subjective criteria you have ready to dismiss the arguments of anyone who doesn’t agree with you? > [@Dracvlad](#): > > You stated above that you did that because you felt he said gankers were the only toxic players, he did not. He was talking about gankers, but he never said that they were the only toxic people, he just talked about the most in your face one. Yeah. You’re fixating on this, Herzog\_Wolfhammer is not. Irrespective, he’s not allowed to forget or omit that the players crossing the line are often would-be ‘victims’. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > And you know as well me, that linking that website and talking about RL threats when people have been pushed into a frothing rage is like saying calm down miners on the forum. It’s like saying: i know some of the most toxic behaviour i have seen in this game, in local, in npc chat and on the forums has come from pve/carebear players (hi LSG/balos/naari) and victims of non-consensual pvp like ganking, see- [minerbumping.com](http://minerbumping.com). To omit that when talking about the toxicity of gankers seems dishonest to me. So I’m gonna slip it when i see it. It has nothing to do with trying to rile someone up. You think i deliberately triggered Herzog\_Wolfhammer? No. Wasn’t expecting him to fly off the handle like he did. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > On the other side of things I have had people call me all manner of things in the past, some of the insults I got when killing mission runners in Stain were epic, but I found their reaction to real loss in a game that means something perfectly normal and did not take offense. You should learn from that. Likewise. I’ve never reported a player for splurging at me (once or twice on forums…think it was fab-rod during the pirate battleship rebalance). I can understand emotions can run hot, i can understand some players poke eachother with a stick. But I’m using the words ‘cross the line’ deliberately. Because rubbing salt in the wound after a gank does not always cross the line, but some of the replies to it definitely do. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > But one of the reasons for the lack of contact by players in local for example is because people keep their heads down so as not to be targets. Herzog nailed it. I’ve heard of it, but from the same kinds of players that say: don’t join a corp you’ll get AWOXed, wardecced or stolen from. Don’t goto lowsec. Etc. The kinds of groups that shun interaction or the pvp sandbox are telling their members to keep their heads down. Where as goons? CODE? @Solecist_Project (especially you lol)? And pro interactive groups encourage it. It ties in with my argument about good leadership and bad leadership. Some leadership forget their members are here to have fun. Edit- In contrast to your opinion i think qia-kare nailed it. I talk in local mostly in reply to players asking for help. I can’t sit in rookie chat too long because replying to people’s questions consumes my game time and the same happens when i start a new char in the starter systems. However, the amount of players needing assistance with the game is a lot less than it used to be. Turorials are better. New players are stronger. And the game is easier to play. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 10:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/does-anyone-notice-nobody-talks-and-local-anymore/157620/157 "2019-05-13T10:00:31Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Because rubbing salt in the wound after a gank does not always cross the line, but some of the replies to it definitely do. And here is the difference between me and Herzog as compared to you, I feel that rubbing salt in the wound after a gank crosses a line into what one can say is a major escalation. I just do not do it and I respect you for this: > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Likewise. I’ve never reported a player for splurging at me Good man. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > I’ve heard of it, but from the same kinds of players that say: don’t join a corp you’ll get AWOXed, wardecced or stolen from. Don’t goto lowsec. Etc. > > The kinds of groups that shun interaction or the pvp sandbox are telling their members to keep their heads down. Where as goons? CODE? @Solecist_Project (especially you lol)? And pro interactive groups encourage it. > > It ties in with my argument about good leadership and bad leadership. Some leadership forget their members are here to have fun. Why is this to do with leadership, generally it is more solo orientated players trying to keep out of other peoples cross hairs, when said people are desperately looking for someone to shoot and react to them. Also people define where they want to be competitive and avoid what they are not competitive in, it is normal behaviour in a game when you want to have fun. It is not fun to be a certain loss and to be a Turkey in a turkey shoot, so why do it? Of course you can do it for experience one or two times, but it soon loses it’s allure, and more so when people start mouthing off at you for having fun and not taking it serious. It is why I have not put an Upwell structure up in hisec. I do not want anyone in my corp, as I like having the ability to web my own stuff and don’t want to expose myself to that. It is pure choice and risk management. You might notice that I liked Qia-Kare’s post, because there are different points of view on different aspect s of this which are equally valid. But back to the issue that you and I disagreed on, I do not think it is a good thing to rub salt into a wound after a loss and I do not like the extreme way that certain people go about it most notably on that website you linked too, I think it is bad for the game and loses players. That is my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 10:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/does-anyone-notice-nobody-talks-and-local-anymore/157620/158 "2019-05-13T10:04:12Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > I’m not sure the attention given to code is a function of population and local chatter if that’s what you’re trying to say. define attention. The little kid who keeps screaming for his ice scream gets a lot of attention. Not sure how his parents should be proud of it. ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 11:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/does-anyone-notice-nobody-talks-and-local-anymore/157620/159 "2019-05-13T11:09:50Z")
> [@LiChan\_LSG](#): > > Conclusion: Eve is full of toxic people and noone sane will pay to enter it … I think it’s a 50/50. Most children will be exited to see such ‘adult talk’ by ‘kewl guyz’ but the average (older/more mature) player -that do not choose EVE Online over a psychotherapist due to the cost- might go away and play a game in a less psychotic environment. It’s just a form of entertainment. Not everyone is into the “golden shower” experience although some really crave it. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 12:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/does-anyone-notice-nobody-talks-and-local-anymore/157620/160 "2019-05-13T12:11:44Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > define attention. Fame, focus, controversy, lime light, talked about… ---
**Author:** ![Matt\_Spangher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/matt_spangher/32/207271_2.png) [@Matt\_Spangher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Matt_Spangher)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 12:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/does-anyone-notice-nobody-talks-and-local-anymore/157620/161 "2019-05-13T12:50:27Z")
> [@Dravick\_Afterthought](#): > > > [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > > > TL;DR I had to walk fifteen miles to school in the snow! Barefoot! Uphill! _Both ways_ !, So should you. > > You were lucky, you had legs… Aye, Luxury that is. ---
**Author:** ![Poncy\_Twaat](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/poncy_twaat/32/237760_2.png) [@Poncy\_Twaat](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Poncy_Twaat)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 1:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/does-anyone-notice-nobody-talks-and-local-anymore/157620/162 "2019-05-13T13:03:03Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/f/2/f242ef2d0e3a71c65c00fdb3c35a0a9566eb3e73.jpeg) Herzog\_Wolfhammer: > > > You still want to side with them and share their link like a toady? > > I’m not siding with them. I’m siding against you and dishonesty. > > ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/f/2/f242ef2d0e3a71c65c00fdb3c35a0a9566eb3e73.jpeg) Herzog\_Wolfhammer: > > > And what would someone in that same local, looking at those comments, think? > > Probably similar to wingspan making vids of torpedo deliveries and pvp corps making videos of themselves slam dunking other groups. > > Sharing stories attracts players. > > Would code be as famous and as big today without [minerbumping.com](http://minerbumping.com)? I don’t think so. > > Check and mate. Your statements are flawed. ---
**Author:** ![Poncy\_Twaat](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/poncy_twaat/32/237760_2.png) [@Poncy\_Twaat](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Poncy_Twaat)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 1:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/does-anyone-notice-nobody-talks-and-local-anymore/157620/163 "2019-05-13T13:04:49Z")
> [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > > I have been posting on the Eve forums since 2009 > > Scary ain’t it? My first forum post was the day after Apocrypha dropped. And nobody cares… Useless. ---
**Author:** ![Poncy\_Twaat](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/poncy_twaat/32/237760_2.png) [@Poncy\_Twaat](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Poncy_Twaat)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 1:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/does-anyone-notice-nobody-talks-and-local-anymore/157620/164 "2019-05-13T13:05:23Z")
Another stupid post by a player whining why he has no bloody friends. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/does-anyone-notice-nobody-talks-and-local-anymore/157620.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/does-anyone-notice-nobody-talks-and-local-anymore/157620.md?page=9)