# Drifters vs Capsuleer's news as 10? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [June 26, 2019, 9:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/drifters-vs-capsuleers-news-as-10/169971 "2019-06-26T21:51:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 9:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/drifters-vs-capsuleers-news-as-10/169971/365 "2019-07-03T09:13:48Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > I means there is not any single kill in the system, so the system is not returned in the esi list. You understand that npc\_kills is player PVE right? npc\_kills isn’t NPCs killing players, it’s players killing NPCs (and in rarer cases, NPCs killing other NPCs). > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > I do not We are going to go down a Salvos level wormhole here, so I’ll just leave that alone. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 9:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/drifters-vs-capsuleers-news-as-10/169971/366 "2019-07-03T09:26:27Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > You understand that npc\_kills is player PVE right? yes. so X NPC/ship means that for each player kill, there are X NPC killed in NS. And mind you, their bounty are much better than in HS. NPC killing players would go in the ship\_kills. It’s not WHO killed but WHAT was killed. * * * > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > We are going to go down a Salvos level wormhole here, so I’ll just leave that alone. lol. You are making a strawman again. I did not claim > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > So I’d be interested to understand how you determine that nullsec is 42% safer than highsec. * * * I just fixed it and launched it again. (also fixed a wh misrepresentation issue that was putting 5 wh(drifters ?) in the NS group) | space | ship kills | npc kills | jumps | npc / ship | npc / jumps | #systems | nokilldata | nojumpdata | nok&j | | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | | HS | 213 | 106572 | 62965 | 500.33804 | 1.6925594 | 1212 | 146 | 7 | 22 | | LS | 94 | 10482 | 11562 | 111.510635 | 0.9065906 | 695 | 322 | 8 | 26 | | NS | 175 | 356312 | 30884 | 2036.0686 | 11.5371065 | 3574 | 1537 | 98 | 625 | | WS | 0 | 0 | 0 | Infinity | Infinity | 2604 | 0 | 0 | 2604 | | abyss | 0 | 0 | 0 | Infinity | Infinity | 200 | 0 | 0 | 200 | This time, using the only metrics I have access to : - NS npc/ship is 4 times higher than in HS. - NS npc/jumps is 6.7 times higher than HS. * * * And did it again( replaced infinity by nan when jumps or ship is 0). I add it since the ESI data was refreshed, so that is a second hour worth of statistics. | space | ship kills | npc kills | jumps | npc / ship | npc / jumps | #systems | nokilldata | nojumpdata | nok&j | | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | | HS | 220 | 113181 | 65391 | 514.4591 | 1.7308345 | 1212 | 132 | 11 | 17 | | LS | 122 | 10492 | 12241 | 86.0 | 0.8571195 | 695 | 316 | 10 | 18 | | NS | 201 | 400091 | 32034 | 1990.5024 | 12.4895735 | 3574 | 1528 | 94 | 599 | | WS | 0 | 0 | 0 | NaN | NaN | 2604 | 0 | 0 | 2604 | | abyss | 0 | 0 | 0 | NaN | NaN | 200 | 0 | 0 | 200 | - NS npc/ships is 3.8 times higher than in HS - NS npc/jumps is 7 times higher than in HS. ---
**Author:** ![Avaelica\_Kuershin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/avaelica_kuershin/32/478139_2.png) [@Avaelica\_Kuershin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Avaelica_Kuershin)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 9:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/drifters-vs-capsuleers-news-as-10/169971/367 "2019-07-03T09:33:06Z")
If there’s a discussion about relative safety of spaces, wouldn’t the ratio of _player ship losses_ / _player population_ be a better datum? ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 9:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/drifters-vs-capsuleers-news-as-10/169971/368 "2019-07-03T09:36:47Z")
The only statistical data I have from ESI are the ship\_kills, pod\_kills, npc\_kills, and jumps. No data on kill value (eg bounty/total ship value), no aggregate, no data on value of loot, etc. That’s why I said this is not enough. My point is that the raw data we have access to do not show anything like “HS is more secure than NS”, on the opposite. However those data are not enough to affirm anything serious. I used jumps as an indication of population, because I don’t have better than that. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 9:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/drifters-vs-capsuleers-news-as-10/169971/369 "2019-07-03T09:37:35Z")
Player population only sort of matters. If a space is 10 times as lucrative, but only 2 times as dangerous, then overall it’s actually safer. Because you can afford the losses easily, still make more, and it’s lucrative enough to form a group over. Most highsec income sources actually punish you for being in a group. ---
**Author:** ![March\_rabbit](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/march_rabbit/32/453160_2.png) [@March\_rabbit](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/March_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 9:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/drifters-vs-capsuleers-news-as-10/169971/370 "2019-07-03T09:37:53Z")
Unless you got wardec. And then it’s “CCP!!! Help!!! They bully me with wardec spam!!!” ---
**Author:** ![Rekindle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rekindle/32/382332_2.png) [@Rekindle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rekindle)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 10:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/drifters-vs-capsuleers-news-as-10/169971/371 "2019-07-03T10:36:32Z")
“player population only sort of matters” – now I know I’m playing a different eve than the post-wow crowd. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 10:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/drifters-vs-capsuleers-news-as-10/169971/372 "2019-07-03T10:38:47Z")
Yeah, it’s better to make a “dangerous” metric that does not take into account the population. I mean, it’s pretty obvious that a system with 100 ship kills and 1000 ppl in local is exactly as dangerous as a system with 100 ship kills and 5 ppl in local. :shipitparrot: and BTW… | space | ship kills | npc kills | jumps | npc / ship | npc / jumps | #systems | nokilldata | nojumpdata | nok&j | | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | | HS | 375 | 113460 | 66371 | 302.56 | 1.7094816 | 1212 | 134 | 15 | 19 | | LS | 139 | 10812 | 12318 | 77.78417 | 0.8777399 | 695 | 309 | 4 | 23 | | NS | 247 | 386611 | 36837 | 1565.2267 | 10.495181 | 3574 | 1569 | 88 | 558 | | WS | 0 | 0 | 0 | NaN | NaN | 2604 | 0 | 0 | 2604 | | abyss | 0 | 0 | 0 | NaN | NaN | 200 | 0 | 0 | 200 | Whatever the metric used in those available, NS been 5 times safer than HS for the last hour. With more than 3 times as many NPC kills ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 10:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/drifters-vs-capsuleers-news-as-10/169971/373 "2019-07-03T10:39:14Z")
Its the crying thats the best part. ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 10:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/drifters-vs-capsuleers-news-as-10/169971/374 "2019-07-03T10:45:37Z")
> [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > On the other hand PvPers being forced to PvE is wrong. “You consented to PVE by clicking the undock button.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Wavemistress\_Moidel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wavemistress_moidel/32/211447_2.png) [@Wavemistress\_Moidel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wavemistress_Moidel)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 11:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/drifters-vs-capsuleers-news-as-10/169971/375 "2019-07-03T11:41:41Z")
Not bothered by wardeccs don’t own any structures I use empire stations for all my needs, always have done. ---
**Author:** ![Nick\_Bison](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nick_bison/32/384927_2.png) [@Nick\_Bison](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nick_Bison)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 5:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/drifters-vs-capsuleers-news-as-10/169971/377 "2019-07-03T17:02:53Z")
Time to step on him, hard ---
**Author:** ![IS\_LAH\_RAVIN](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/is_lah_ravin/32/263768_2.png) [@IS\_LAH\_RAVIN](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/IS_LAH_RAVIN)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 7:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/drifters-vs-capsuleers-news-as-10/169971/378 "2019-07-03T19:22:10Z")
This is not about tears, if this where happening in other place those people would complain as well. So, what is it about. For the past 15 years EVE has been about risk vs. reward. This new mechanic changes that completely. This seems to be more along the lines of controlling players game play through the use of NPC (developers) mechanics that only the Drifters (developers) can use. Once again partitioning the Sandbox into “play areas” subject to the whims of CCP. What exactly is the Risk vs Reward in this situation, when Drifters are not subject to Damage Cap on structures, and can one shot capitals. The plebeian pub-lords see this as “fair”, and I understand the thinking, however its wrong. Yes, Null Sec is powerful (It is meant to be, or at least it was). Yes, Null Sec power blocks can and do field massive fleets. (So what) Everything that happens in Null sec is consensual and has little effect on other areas and play styles. This is about control: With one flick of the NPC switch, CCP managed to bring to a halt nearly all power projection in Null Sec so the bower blocks were “Forced” to go and defend their assets from NPC’s because why? If it is to purge structures…I think High sec has more unused structures than Null (thats a guess). Conclusion, no risk vs. reward means this mechanic is something else…All I see is a means to control player movements once again through purposely developed mechanics (phoebe). And that did not work out so well for CCP or EVE. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 7:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/drifters-vs-capsuleers-news-as-10/169971/379 "2019-07-03T19:26:12Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Whatever the metric used in those available, NS been 5 times safer than HS for the last hour. With more than 3 times as many NPC kills Whatever metric, or just crazy made up ones? The only conclusion that can be really drawn is that aside from a few systems in the game in at any particular point in time, most characters face near 0 risk of loss. To extend that with my view of what that means is - there’s overall way too little risk across the game now. Looking at the current breakdown of the top 10 most violent (towards capsuleers) system in highsec, lowsec and nullsec: | NAME | SHIP KILLS | POD KILLS | NPC KILLS | CLASSIFICATION | | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | | Jita | 29 | 23 | 46 | | | Manarq | 26 | 1 | 210 | Triglavian Invasion | | Madirmilire | 22 | 6 | 41 | | | Tar | 18 | 1 | 389 | Triglavian Invasion | | Akiainavas | 16 | 0 | 572 | Career Agent | | Iyen-Oursta | 15 | 0 | 335 | Triglavian Invasion | | Couster | 14 | 0 | 748 | Career Agent | | Uitra | 13 | 0 | 854 | Career Agent | | Clellinon | 10 | 0 | 408 | Career Agent | | Trossere | 10 | 1 | 294 | Triglavian Invasion | It’s still pretty sad in my view, that 4 of the 10 most violent systems in the last hour are new players dying to NPCs mostly, in the career agent systems. 1202 systems have lower risk than the new players are facing in those systems. Same thing for nullsec: | NAME | SHIP KILLS | POD KILLS | NPC KILLS | | --- | --- | --- | --- | | O3-4MN | 75 | 36 | 0 | | 28Y9-P | 52 | 21 | 0 | | 5-CQDA | 46 | 35 | 58 | | 1DQ1-A | 36 | 30 | 39 | | BWF-ZZ | 35 | 21 | 142 | | 4M-HGL | 16 | 2 | 0 | | KLY-C0 | 15 | 1 | 0 | | 1IX-C0 | 12 | 2 | 542 | | EWOK-K | 11 | 11 | 0 | | YHN-3K | 11 | 2 | 0 | It’s sad that with almost 3300 accessible systems, once you go below even the 10 most violent, it’s almost single figure ship loss. Most of the systems have had no ship or pod loss at all in the last hour (only 290 systems have, which is only 9% of the accessible nullsec systems). It’s a pretty sad state. Lowsec is the same outside FW. The top 10 most violent systems are dominated by FW (which is normal): | NAME | SHIP KILLS | POD KILLS | NPC KILLS | CLASSIFICATION | | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | | Tama | 42 | 14 | 1 | Gal-Cal FW | | Todifrauan | 14 | 8 | 0 | Amarr-Min FW | | Nisuwa | 14 | 1 | 36 | Gal-Cal FW | | Akidagi | 9 | 3 | 0 | Gal-Cal FW | | Amamake | 8 | 2 | 13 | Amarr-Min FW | | Oulley | 7 | 6 | 31 | Gal-Cal FW | | Auga | 7 | 2 | 6 | Amarr-Min FW | | Mara | 7 | 0 | 0 | | | Heydieles | 6 | 4 | 9 | Gal-Cal FW | | Eha | 6 | 4 | 23 | Gal-Cal FW | At least in lowsec, the one plus is that ships/pods are dying in about 20% of systems in an hour period. ---
**Author:** ![Foggy\_Bernstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/foggy_bernstein/32/407887_2.png) [@Foggy\_Bernstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Foggy_Bernstein)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 7:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/drifters-vs-capsuleers-news-as-10/169971/380 "2019-07-03T19:47:21Z")
Jesus. With you two it’s like arguing over whether the pile of ■■■■ you came across tastes more like chocolate or more like cherry. You’re completely missing the piont. IT’S STILL A PILE OF ■■■■! ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 7:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/drifters-vs-capsuleers-news-as-10/169971/381 "2019-07-03T19:54:50Z")
I’m glad this has happened as it has woken up null sec and shown us that we also have to be fearful of NPC’s. There has never been any real NPC threat and I have always said CCP should do more events like this. This is most definately the Eve I know and love where we are truly within a dark and unforgiving virtual world. We knew of the drifters from before and I think it was very well played to have them appear suddenly and start attacking. I hope CCP update the lore story to include this and hopefully the Drifters will make contact with Concord or some other NPC and make their demands known. I love Eve man!! There are so many ways this Drifter story could go. I really hope CCP continue this Incursion theme. I’m glad the Player alliances mobilised and fought the Drifters, I have seen a couple of cool videos and I can see the fleet commanders have worked hard and adapted. Well Done. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 8:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/drifters-vs-capsuleers-news-as-10/169971/382 "2019-07-03T20:03:07Z")
> [@Foggy\_Bernstein](#): > > Jesus. With you two it’s like arguing over whether the pile of ■■■■ you came across tastes more like chocolate or more like cherry. Do you feel better about yourself that you have made that post? I guess you put us in our place or something. But it’s a discussion forum - people discuss things and this is argumentative at all. Different views on the same thing, perhaps not all applied reasonably, but still valid to discuss. ---
**Author:** ![Foggy\_Bernstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/foggy_bernstein/32/407887_2.png) [@Foggy\_Bernstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Foggy_Bernstein)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 8:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/drifters-vs-capsuleers-news-as-10/169971/383 "2019-07-03T20:07:47Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > But it’s a discussion forum You are not discussing. You are plugging your ears and singing lah lah lah at the top of your lungs. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 8:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/drifters-vs-capsuleers-news-as-10/169971/384 "2019-07-03T20:09:37Z")
> [@Foggy\_Bernstein](#): > > You are plugging your ears and singing lah lah lah at the top of your lungs. I haven’t done anything like that for years mate and aside from knowing that I’m typing on the forum, you have no way of knowing what else I’m doing. ---
**Author:** ![Foggy\_Bernstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/foggy_bernstein/32/407887_2.png) [@Foggy\_Bernstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Foggy_Bernstein)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 8:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/drifters-vs-capsuleers-news-as-10/169971/385 "2019-07-03T20:18:56Z")
OMG! You are a Whitehound alt. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/drifters-vs-capsuleers-news-as-10/169971.md?page=18) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/drifters-vs-capsuleers-news-as-10/169971.md?page=20)