# DutchGunner for CSM 17. Highsec, lore,events, Pochven and more **URL:** \ **Category:** CSM Campaigns\ **Created:** [May 21, 2022, 6:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dutchgunner-for-csm-17-highsec-lore-events-pochven-and-more/363592 "2022-05-21T18:24:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Remilia\_Malitia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remilia_malitia/32/394766_2.png) [@Remilia\_Malitia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remilia_Malitia)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 7:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dutchgunner-for-csm-17-highsec-lore-events-pochven-and-more/363592/21 "2022-05-30T19:29:16Z")
I agree that fixing empire standings is awful as is, and something similar to the tag system for sec status would be great, but I do not understand why you think EDENCOM-Trigs standings should be hard-locked to be more or less mutually exclusive while the other factions should not. ---
**Author:** ![DutchGunner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dutchgunner/32/378183_2.png) [@DutchGunner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DutchGunner)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 7:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dutchgunner-for-csm-17-highsec-lore-events-pochven-and-more/363592/22 "2022-05-30T19:44:19Z")
Because as it stands, it is currently possible to get (super) high standings with both factions and it allows for people to have the best of both worlds. That’s not what the entire conflict was about and it is disingenuous to the efforts from those that did pick a side. ---
**Author:** ![Remilia\_Malitia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remilia_malitia/32/394766_2.png) [@Remilia\_Malitia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remilia_Malitia)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 7:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dutchgunner-for-csm-17-highsec-lore-events-pochven-and-more/363592/23 "2022-05-30T19:51:10Z")
Do you think maintaining the invasion-era “pick your side” narrative is really that productive though? Without any iteration on the content directly feeding into further antagonism between the two, it feels like kind of an arbitrary thing to preserve. For a _lot_ of people that didn’t participate in the invasions, which is _most_ people, this doesn’t seem to make too much sense. A lot of lore seems to hint at a distant normalization of Empire-Trig relations as well. Would any such development affect your opinion on this? ---
**Author:** ![DutchGunner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dutchgunner/32/378183_2.png) [@DutchGunner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DutchGunner)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 8:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dutchgunner-for-csm-17-highsec-lore-events-pochven-and-more/363592/24 "2022-05-30T20:11:35Z")
CCP have made it clear that the Triglavian story is not yet over, only the invasion chapter. I think it would be far more damaging to the game to normalize the relations between the Empires and Triglavians. It would be the worst possible dismissal of the efforts of those who sided with EDENCOM and make people hesitant or unwilling to interact with any future content where you have to pick a side, no matter how awesome it might be. ---
**Author:** ![Phantom\_Silver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/phantom_silver/32/409149_2.png) [@Phantom\_Silver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Phantom_Silver)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 8:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dutchgunner-for-csm-17-highsec-lore-events-pochven-and-more/363592/25 "2022-05-30T20:16:46Z")
Hey there, my alliance members want to know where we can Donate our Iskies to your campaign XD ---
**Author:** ![Lilith\_Li](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lilith_li/32/322491_2.png) [@Lilith\_Li](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lilith_Li)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2022, 8:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dutchgunner-for-csm-17-highsec-lore-events-pochven-and-more/363592/26 "2022-05-31T20:00:38Z")
At one time the “open to everyone” dual-standing fleets you organized and ran in Pochven were part of ARC’s mission of science and discovery. There are several people I have spoken to in the EVE community who were part of your dual standing fleets who were only marginally associated with ARC, who grabbed onto the ideals of ARC’s mission in Pochven and to this day continue to work on dual standings on the hope that it will mean something. I agree that those who sided with EDENCOM didn’t get much of a reward outside of K-space sites and World Arks that never seem to be run by Pro-EDENCOM folks. Those who sided with EDENCOM and their efforts still resulted in the loss of several systems, which have changed the gameplay and navigation in K-space the bottleneck between Jita & Amarr is an example. Why would CCP put a mechanic in-game where a person could raise both their EDENCOM and Trig standing without having to kill or side with either? CCP’s thoughts (in my mind) are Drifters, Sleepers, and Rogue Drones are the common or true enemy to everyone Empire, EDENCOM, and Trig alike inside and outside of Pochven. Also, further to the point of a common enemy, CCP has made it so that when any class of Drifter, sleeping or otherwise, is killed in Pochven at least, a player receives a 0.24% (with Fast Talk IV) positive change to security status. This is a reasonable bump in security status. No other Pochven entity gives a positive boost to security status, so for those who are tired of being chased in K-space, this has been another way to fix security status without farming the tags in low/null security space. Instead of being murder hobos involving players in Pochven, which is the common mindset for the space, perhaps CCP had something different in mind in regards to Pochven outside of the two warring NPC factions? How would players be compensated for their efforts in fighting these common enemies to the point where both factions hold the player in high esteem? Having high EDENCOM standings or any (\> = 0) EDENCOM standings doesn’t do anything currently outside of not being shot at by the faction. I know claims are having high standing with one faction will result in the NPCs performing logistics on you, but I for one have never seen it. As for Trig standings the benefit ends at 7.0. Would a line be drawn in the sand and one day the players be told all your efforts in grinding dual standing now result in your losing a chunk of your standings with the other faction and having to decide who to side with? ---
**Author:** ![DutchGunner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dutchgunner/32/378183_2.png) [@DutchGunner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DutchGunner)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 9:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dutchgunner-for-csm-17-highsec-lore-events-pochven-and-more/363592/27 "2022-06-01T21:56:10Z")
Really solid observations and questions. I’m always happy to see other players be inspired by what others do and give it their own spin. I’ll not go deeper into that as that’s a bit beside what this forum is about and I could keep going for hours. > [@Lilith\_Li](#): > > Why would CCP put a mechanic in-game where a person could raise both their EDENCOM and Trig standing without having to kill or side with either? Your reasoning and answer is certainly solid but I think there is a bit more to it. However this is going to be based on several assumptions and giving gameplay priority over lore/roleplay (EVE is a game after all). 1. EDENCOM was created for the purpose of presenting opposition to fight without having players burn their Empire standings. This way players are able to keep interacting with the invasions everywhere they want for as long as they want; 2. The assumption was that there would be massive support for the Triglavians and far less support for EDENCOM. 3. For the sake of gameplay and avoiding a crippled game experience, there should be a way for players to repair their standings with EDENCOM. 4. The Triglavian story and content is perfect to continue building upon after the creation of Pochven. That would mean that it all falls into place when you combine the above assumptions, your answer and CCP stating that the Triglavian story and Drifter story is not yet finished CCP didn’t expect the support for EDENCOM but I’m convinced that they accept the outcome of the Invasion story arc and are working to deal fix the asymmetry between EDENCOM and the Triglavian Collective. Add in the announced heraldry system and we can expect that the the standings will have (more) meaning and rewards in the future and not just for EDENCOM and the Triglavian Collective. What should be avoided though is that those who opted to stay out of the Invasion content or joined the game afterwards are able to get the best of both worlds. Especially because they don’t have to first repair their standings with the opposing side. That’s not going to be an incentive to pick a side in any (future) content. It should be possible to have good standings with EDENCOM and the Triglavian Collective but you should not be able to get (super) high standings with both. The size of the conflict and commitment by both sides has been to big for that. Getting (super) high standings should therefore only be possible for 1 of them. How high both standings can be doesn’t have to be +5.5, it could be higher. The +5.5 is a really good bottom line for the sake of gameplay as it would result in max standings of +10.0 and +1.0 respectively. ---
**Author:** ![Arya\_Yeshe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arya_yeshe/32/397211_2.png) [@Arya\_Yeshe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arya_Yeshe)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2022, 9:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dutchgunner-for-csm-17-highsec-lore-events-pochven-and-more/363592/28 "2022-06-02T21:22:51Z")
> 1. For the sake of gameplay and avoiding a crippled game experience, there should be a way for players to repair their standings with EDENCOM. Today there are five ways of doing it: shoot triglavians, if you shoot them enough your standings will go back to 0/0. Or you can go to a pochven wormhole or to Pochven and shoot rogue drones, sleepers or drifters. > - Don’t automatically extend/continue the game subscription after the selected period has passed This is good, great when the player wants to go on vacations, if EVE is a service then the service should be charged if I am available for using it. > - Getting a suspect timer should also result in a weapons timer; not being able to jump or dock for 1 minute allows for more counterplay when people go suspect; No, this is an overkill, also people who do pvp in low sec won’t be able to take gate? Can’t return to high sec? Can’t dock? There are more mechanics involved and this would damage the game experience by quite a lot. Just wait for a rebellion if such thing was implemented. > - Stealing loot from a wreck and putting it in another ship should result in both ships going suspect. This could be implemented by having the act of stealing result in a suspect flag and having the stolen loot inside your ship trigger a suspect flag for 30 seconds after the theft. Well, thinking about how the safety settings and fleet work today, it makes sense that the ship with hangar fleet set it’s safety to yellow for receiving cargo from a suspect. Just like the logi goes suspect when repairing a suspect ship. > - Reduce the cooldown for neural remaps to at least 2 months instead of 12 before removing them; Overkill, but I would agree on six months, the problem is that CCP is historically stingy and this 12 months rule, stingyness is legacy in EVE. > - No tether in highsec if you have a security standing of -5.0 or worse; Overkill and zealotic, player stations is at players discretion. But, speaking of mechanics, the owner should have more options for configuring the station, if he builds his palace of white knightery then he could deny tether based on faction standings or security standings. Perfect for denying tether to the other militia (ripperoni for them) and for allowing tether to your militia (based on faction standings). People will not bother using these options, but the options should exist for the sake of content and maybe even roleplay. > - No docking access to Empire NPC station if your faction/corp standings are -5.0 or worse. This will force people into creating more and more alts and we shouldn’t follow the “just create a new alt” path. This would also block people who are trying to repair their standings… I know it’s weird that the enemy of the State can dock in faction’s stations, but hey, this is a game after all and we shouldn’t block so hard the people who are sandboxing their sandboxes. ---
**Author:** ![DutchGunner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dutchgunner/32/378183_2.png) [@DutchGunner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DutchGunner)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2022, 10:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dutchgunner-for-csm-17-highsec-lore-events-pochven-and-more/363592/29 "2022-06-02T22:33:24Z")
> [@Arya\_Yeshe](#): > > > 1. For the sake of gameplay and avoiding a crippled game experience, there should be a way for players to repair their standings with EDENCOM. > > Today there are five ways of doing it: shoot triglavians, if you shoot them enough your standings will go back to 0/0. Or you can go to a pochven wormhole or to Pochven and shoot rogue drones, sleepers or drifters. Please don’t quote of of context to spin a narrative. That quote is part of an answer to the question on my thoughts on why CCP put a mechanic into the game to allow a person to raise both EDENCOM and Trig standings. I know of those options and wrote and published a manual on how to deal with the Drifters and their Doomsday. > [@Arya\_Yeshe](#): > > > - Getting a suspect timer should also result in a weapons timer; not being able to jump or dock for 1 minute allows for more counterplay when people go suspect; > > No, this is an overkill, also people who do pvp in low sec won’t be able to take gate? Can’t return to high sec? Can’t dock? There are more mechanics involved and this would damage the game experience by quite a lot. The weapon timer is 1 minute in which you can’t dock or take the gate. Going suspect means you’re doing something that goes against the laws of the Empires but isn’t severe enough to be flagged as criminal. Doing that and having to be in space for 1 minute instead of being able to instantly dock or jump for safety is harsh but not cruel. > [@Arya\_Yeshe](#): > > Just like the logi goes suspect when repairing a suspect ship. Logi doesn’t go suspect in that situation, it goes criminal and will be destroyed by CONCORD in highsec. > [@Arya\_Yeshe](#): > > > - Reduce the cooldown for neural remaps to at least 2 months instead of 12 before removing them; > > Overkill, but I would agree on six months, the problem is that CCP is historically stingy and this 12 months rule, stingyness is legacy in EVE. Neural remap is an option with big benefits. It’s going away but by changing the cooldown, it can be used much much more actively untill it is removed. It’s changing 1 thing that doesn’t require a lot of dev time or could mess up the code and does improve quality of life. Optimized attributes will reduce the required time to train skills up. It’s hours for short duration, days for medium and weeks for the long ones. It really adds up over time and it will help young and low skillpoint characters to develop quickly and catch up a bit. For older and higher skillpoint characters it still adds the benefit of shaving off a lot of time to get skills from 4 to 5. > [@Arya\_Yeshe](#): > > > - No tether in highsec if you have a security standing of -5.0 or worse; > > Overkill and zealotic, player stations is at players discretion. Losing tether with a security standing of -5.0 or worse doesn’t prevent you to dock. It is easy to fix with the security tags if people really want/need that tether. > [@Arya\_Yeshe](#): > > But, speaking of mechanics, the owner should have more options for configuring the station, if he builds his palace of white knightery then he could deny tether based on faction standings or security standings. Perfect for denying tether to the other militia (ripperoni for them) and for allowing tether to your militia (based on faction standings). That is a good addition and should be looked into. The entire structure management UI needs an overhaul though as it is currently anything but transparant and easy to setup the roles and authorisations. > [@Arya\_Yeshe](#): > > > - No docking access to Empire NPC station if your faction/corp standings are -5.0 or worse. > > This will force people into creating more and more alts and we shouldn’t follow the “just create a new alt” path. > This would also block people who are trying to repair their standings… I’ll edit the original post to avoid any confusion and misunderstanding. Not having docking access to Empire NPC stations in highsec if your faction/corp standings are -5.0 or worse is only part of it. It is deliberately mentioned after this: > [@DutchGunner](#): > > Introduce the option to improve Empire standings similar to the Security Standing. The cap for fixing your Empire standings this way should be 0.0 ; Without the option to repair your NPC faction/corp standings this way, not having docking access in the corresponding highsec NPC stations obviously should not happen. ---
**Author:** ![Raven\_Moore](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/raven_moore/32/464693_2.png) [@Raven\_Moore](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Raven_Moore)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2022, 9:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dutchgunner-for-csm-17-highsec-lore-events-pochven-and-more/363592/30 "2022-06-05T09:47:12Z")
> Blockquote Cap the standings you can gain for both EDENCOM and Triglavians at +5.5. If you want to get better standings for one of them, you will have to actively destroy the opposing side. At the same time, as one faction goes above +5.5 the opposing faction will have its cap reduced. As an example: if you push your Triglavian standings up to +7.0 you will have a cap of your EDENCOM standings at +4.0. Another example is that if you have EDENCOM standings of +10.0 your Triglavian standings will have a cap at +1.0; This is not a bad start - while I don’t feel it necessary to punish those who choose the path of dual standings would be nice for those who “pick a side” to get some more tangible benefits and rewards for choosing one over the other. Some things to consider for “picking a side” - Better LP rewards - Special Missions/Rewards - Additional / Increased bonuses on certain parts of the map controlled by Edencom / Triglavians Intertwine and bring the Drifter’s into the storyline in a more meaningful and impactful way. Lore is a big part of what makes the game more immersive and I feel that it doesn’t have to be separate from PVP with the right mechanics in place (to be of course tweaked/rebalanced if need be). With the right mechanics the lore portion of the game can have a more direct and meaningful experience for the players who fully support their chosen faction. ---
**Author:** ![Kalvin\_Rothchild](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kalvin_rothchild/32/375005_2.png) [@Kalvin\_Rothchild](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kalvin_Rothchild)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2022, 11:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dutchgunner-for-csm-17-highsec-lore-events-pochven-and-more/363592/31 "2022-06-05T11:14:05Z")
You’re forms of gameplay are bad for carebears… I Respect Gankers. they are quite unique. but i do not Agree or respect Griefers or trolls. you are a griefer and a troll, you should get banned forever. You make eve worse, you are what’s causing people to quit eve - and that is sad. You have no care for the point of the game. you should get DUNKED and move to Hello Kitty, i recommend Hello Kitty because that game will suit you. Hello kitty online go grief that. ---
**Author:** ![DutchGunner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dutchgunner/32/378183_2.png) [@DutchGunner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DutchGunner)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 1:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dutchgunner-for-csm-17-highsec-lore-events-pochven-and-more/363592/32 "2022-06-06T13:57:26Z")
Putting a cap on increasing both EDENCOM and Triglavian standings would be something to prevent punishing the EDENCOM and Triglavian supporters who put in the hard work to create Pochven and the EDENCOM systems. They have picked a side and have to deal with the tanked standings of the opposing side. It would be wrong that people that didn’t pick a side can get high standings with both and having to put in less work to achieve this as they don’t have to deal with the negative standings. Considering the announcement that CCP wants to make standings matter more. I imagine that having a minimum standing could be a requirement for the higher reward options in LP stores. Especially in this scenario it shouldn’t be possible to have high standings with both sides because you should not get the best of both worlds with this conflict. As CCP confirmed that the Triglavian and Drifter story is not yet done, I’m sure that there is more content in the pipeline that is going to include new/other/additional rewards for both sides. It’s certainly important to make it less asymmetrical. Lore is a great way to offer different playstyles their respective content and individual ways to contribute to making the game a living universe where players find their own way. There is already a very strong focus on pvp and pvp combat. I want to make sure that the other playstyles aren’t left behind or excluded and/or that the future content is at their expense. ---
**Author:** ![DutchGunner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dutchgunner/32/378183_2.png) [@DutchGunner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DutchGunner)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 1:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dutchgunner-for-csm-17-highsec-lore-events-pochven-and-more/363592/33 "2022-06-06T13:59:56Z")
I can understand the sentiment but please keep it out of this specific forum as it’s neither the time or place. I was expecting push back and negative personal remarks but that is something that comes with running and/or being on the CSM. ---
**Author:** ![Ashterothi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ashterothi/32/459299_2.png) [@Ashterothi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ashterothi)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 8:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dutchgunner-for-csm-17-highsec-lore-events-pochven-and-more/363592/34 "2022-06-06T20:12:44Z")
[![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/3/8/b/38b5b0ff87edacefe4edd3d634eee7db3a885472.jpeg "CSM 17 - DutchGunner") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt4MeMFFhyY) ---
**Author:** ![DutchGunner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dutchgunner/32/378183_2.png) [@DutchGunner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DutchGunner)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 8:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dutchgunner-for-csm-17-highsec-lore-events-pochven-and-more/363592/35 "2022-06-06T20:57:28Z")
Thank you once again for the interview and uploading it on youtube! ---
**Author:** ![DutchGunner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dutchgunner/32/378183_2.png) [@DutchGunner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DutchGunner)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2022, 9:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dutchgunner-for-csm-17-highsec-lore-events-pochven-and-more/363592/36 "2022-06-16T21:09:46Z")
Thank you for everyone who voted for me. Ending up at spot #20 is a big improvement over last year and it came close to my best result so far of spot #17. I’ll be back to run for CSM 18! ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2022, 9:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dutchgunner-for-csm-17-highsec-lore-events-pochven-and-more/363592/37 "2022-09-14T21:09:53Z")
This topic was automatically closed 90 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dutchgunner-for-csm-17-highsec-lore-events-pochven-and-more/363592.md?page=1)