# ECM Balance Pass - November **URL:** \ **Category:** Upcoming Features & Changes\ **Tags:** pvp, ships\ **Created:** [October 25, 2018, 12:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696 "2018-10-25T00:43:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Manweru\_Cemenotar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/manweru_cemenotar/32/230368_2.png) [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Manweru_Cemenotar)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2019, 11:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696/241 "2019-12-03T11:35:07Z")
random idea for better “rebalance” of ECM: shorten the jam duration, so let’s say at max skills with 20s cycle time you get up to 10s of jam duration, BUT: 1. Jams is guaranteed to land, jam strenght and sensor strength are used to determine duration instead (up to said “optimal” scenario of 10s) 2. After target is jammed, he is immune to further jamming attempts for full duration of jammer cycle. Pros: Less RNG, case scenario of target being completely locked out of ability to retaliate removed completely. Cons: It would make too much sense I guess? ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Sergeant\_MacRobert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/master_sergeant_macrobert/32/245588_2.png) [@Master\_Sergeant\_MacRobert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Master_Sergeant_MacRobert)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2019, 1:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696/242 "2019-12-03T13:57:39Z")
> [Manweru Cemenotar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Manweru_Cemenotar) > … > > - Pros: Less RNG, case scenario of target being completely locked out of ability to retaliate removed completely. > - Cons: It would take any/some Dev time? _Personally, I’d love to see them properly rework ECM mechanics. Significant development time required_ ---
**Author:** ![Shadowlance](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shadowlance/32/374712_2.png) [@Shadowlance](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shadowlance)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2020, 9:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696/243 "2020-01-05T09:03:32Z")
The current reckon ships balance is: `Gallente reckons:` damp the targets lock to zero and fly away if things go wrong `Minmatar reckons:` pin the targets speed to zero and fly away if things go wrong `Amarr reckons:` suck the targets cap to zero and fly away if things go wrong `Caldari reckons:` mmm what a tasty bird for my killboard 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Cypr3ss\_Deteis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypr3ss_deteis/32/392947_2.png) [@Cypr3ss\_Deteis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypr3ss_Deteis)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 12:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696/244 "2020-01-06T00:55:45Z")
> [@Master\_Sergeant\_MacRobert](#): > > I’d love to see them properly rework ECM mechanics. I too would like to see this! > [@Master\_Sergeant\_MacRobert](#): > > Significant development time required Well it’s been \>12 months now, do we dare to believe they may actually be ‘working on it’… ? Or is that just crazy talk! Regards, Cypr3ss. ---
**Author:** ![dewk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dewk/32/168218_2.png) [@dewk](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/dewk)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 4:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696/245 "2020-01-06T04:43:22Z")
There was an idea post ages ago suggesting used a strength vs strength design. Where ships would have to role designed for ECM and ECCM roles. This would mean frigates would have to have massive fitting requirement to gain the ECM strength to take on Cruisers or larger, or fleet to pool their strength against a larger target, but would gain the full stacking penalties. So two frigates could win against a destroyer, but fail against a cruiser, but add two more frigates and the have a better chance, but would fail against a protected cruiser. They’d have no show against battleships, and a minor chance against weak fitted battlecruiser if there were enough frigates to still gain a bonus. And of cause larger the ECM ship the larger its target. ---
**Author:** ![Abe\_Rollin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/abe_rollin/32/272864_2.png) [@Abe\_Rollin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Abe_Rollin)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 4:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696/246 "2020-01-06T16:17:43Z")
Just checking in… Can I use ECM on my Rook to actually “ECM” an opponent in a solo fight yet ? - No … so still broken Of course making ECM bonused ships the only ships able to use ECM drones would help. ---
**Author:** ![XvXTeacherVxV](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xvxteachervxv/32/355685_2.png) [@XvXTeacherVxV](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/XvXTeacherVxV)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 3:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696/247 "2020-01-14T03:44:52Z")
So, I was worried that this whole “you can target the people jamming you” thing would mean I use ECM a lot less but, it’s still pretty effective at range so I was wrong about that for sure. But their use cases are much more specific than other recons. The point that Shadowlance made about Caldari recons just being squishy without the means to protect themselves is valid; they have little tank and their EWAR does not help them avoid trouble, they just become targets. Their only option to avoid certain death is to stay the heck out of range. A bonus to either burst jammers or ecm drones would change that, they’d at least have some means of running off just like other recons. If not that… they need some more tank to stay alive for more than five seconds. Also, the griffin navy issue needs some love. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 4:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696/248 "2020-01-14T04:05:19Z")
> [@XvXTeacherVxV](#): > > they’d at least have some means of running off just like other recons See, I think we actually want the same thing done to the other recons. So damps don’t stop them locking back at range, just from locking everyone else, etc. Then recon ships as a whole could get a tank buff if needed, but making one factions ships much better isn’t the way forward to balance. ---
**Author:** ![elitatwo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elitatwo/32/373473_2.png) [@elitatwo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/elitatwo)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 6:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696/249 "2020-01-14T06:00:31Z")
Maybe not but giving the Falcon and Rook a slight range bonus would help. The Caldari recons and the Blackbird would also benefit from a slightly better capacitor to help positioning at mwd speed. Speaking of the Blackbird and to an extend the Scorpion, I would like to suggest giving both either another launcher or turret hard-point. Just the hard-point to mount them, they already have the slots to fill them. The Blackbird is the most sad disruption cruiser with the lowest possible firepower in the game and neither the Blackbird, nor the Scorpion will brake triglavian Online if they would get those mounts. ---
**Author:** ![Abe\_Rollin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/abe_rollin/32/272864_2.png) [@Abe\_Rollin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Abe_Rollin)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 6:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696/250 "2020-01-14T18:00:34Z")
I’ve given up on ECM for solo brawlers and with most long range ECM as well - not enough cap to kite & no tank to handle fast cruisers burning out to get you. I never fit ECM on my Rook any more. I’m using it to go into wormholes and hack relic sites, at least get something from the only bonus left that works, not being seen on Dscan. That’s PVE only tho, no PVP with it any more. ---
**Author:** ![elitatwo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elitatwo/32/373473_2.png) [@elitatwo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/elitatwo)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 6:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696/251 "2020-01-14T18:02:48Z")
Speaking of, the Rook has the highest possible damage of all the recons in the game if you fit her like a Drake. Depending on your wallet the Rook can do between 500-800dps. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 8:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696/252 "2020-01-14T20:30:09Z")
The current design takes into account ship size indirectly in the calculation that everyone thinks is 100% random. If they just returned it so that the targeted ship cannot target back it was all good. The only reason for the change was a whine. ---
**Author:** ![Abe\_Rollin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/abe_rollin/32/272864_2.png) [@Abe\_Rollin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Abe_Rollin)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 10:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696/253 "2020-01-14T22:30:45Z")
Go through any recommended abyssal fits, remove one mid slot module to replace with a sensor booster + ECCM - it will be to slow, have too little tank or not apply enough dps to survive. Then think non-eccm fitted ship 1v1 a rook in the arena …oh the tears ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 11:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696/254 "2020-01-14T23:04:57Z")
> [@Abe\_Rollin](#): > > Go through any recommended abyssal fits I found the problem. PvP in EVE doesn’t revolve around the Abyss, in fact the Abyss needs to be removed because it is instanced and EVE is a sandbox. And even tough the original Dev Blog was a whine, we all know they Fed over EVE PvP to suit the Abyss, which is just reason #54309673540360754364840589 to remove the Abyss. EDIT: > [@Abe\_Rollin](#): > > remove one mid slot module to replace with a sensor booster + ECCM - it will be to slow, have too little tank or not apply enough dps to survive. Not too mention the idea that you have to do PvE rooms to get to a PvP match is just plain dumb and these fitting issues are only symptoms of that mistake, not reasons to make more mistakes. ---
**Author:** ![Chan\_aar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chan_aar/32/377560_2.png) [@Chan\_aar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chan_aar)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 4:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696/255 "2020-01-15T16:50:39Z")
> [@elitatwo](#): > > Speaking of, the Rook has the highest possible damage of all the recons in the game if you fit her like a Drake. > > Depending on your wallet the Rook can do between 500-800dps. 🤔 Going to need you to share that fit, for science purposes of course. ---
**Author:** ![Abe\_Rollin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/abe_rollin/32/272864_2.png) [@Abe\_Rollin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Abe_Rollin)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 5:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696/256 "2020-01-15T17:30:16Z")
I also want to see this fit - I tried in PYFA & even if you glass cannon & use dead-space mods it’s hard to get over 500dps (Edit: 499dps Caldari navy launchers + 3 tobias Ballistics + dmg rigs & a few billion ISK) ---
**Author:** ![elitatwo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elitatwo/32/373473_2.png) [@elitatwo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/elitatwo)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 11:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696/257 "2020-01-15T23:11:00Z")
The fit is not for public review but you have mail 😉 ---
**Author:** ![elitatwo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elitatwo/32/373473_2.png) [@elitatwo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/elitatwo)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 11:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696/258 "2020-01-15T23:13:11Z")
LOL !!! I believe with purple ballistic controls is more like 900dps. But no, I will not publish that fit. ---
**Author:** ![Spugg\_Galdon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/spugg_galdon/32/180304_2.png) [@Spugg\_Galdon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Spugg_Galdon)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2020, 8:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696/259 "2020-01-16T08:15:31Z")
![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/a/e/ae8c4fc698c32d2c5c08bf877c2e49f4168a3e63.png) Before drugs and implants. Nothing Faction / Purple. > 500dps ship with dual webs and a \>1k dps tank with XL-ASB that provides 45k eHP on top of your 16k eHP base. It competes with a Cerberus in performance and just doesn’t have the 15 second invulnerability button. Cerberus is a little faster but the Rook is “stealthy”. Rook gets better application (dual webs) but the Cerberus gets better projection. Rook is also cheaper. ---
**Author:** ![Abe\_Rollin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/abe_rollin/32/272864_2.png) [@Abe\_Rollin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Abe_Rollin)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2020, 3:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696/260 "2020-01-16T15:26:53Z")
I believe you are wrong … 900dps… In your dreams sunbeam. - Level 5 Skills - Purple ballistic damage controls - 0verheated Caldari navy launchers You can scrape up 563dps - and thats with the 3 1/2 billion in implants ![rook](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/0/0/00fb0fe15fac10a871e7944fe22cc8cd3af3fe8b.jpeg) [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696.md?page=12) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696.md?page=14)