# ECM Balance Pass - November **URL:** \ **Category:** Upcoming Features & Changes\ **Tags:** pvp, ships\ **Created:** [October 25, 2018, 12:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696 "2018-10-25T00:43:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 8:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696/301 "2021-03-05T20:59:23Z")
I think so, but I have not looked at them in months/years. ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2021, 7:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696/302 "2021-03-18T07:46:56Z")
> [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > A signature radius reduction on the widow is like pulling the mirrors off a school bus and saying its now harder to hit with an RPG. Now CCP thinks they are being helpful with doing the same thing to the target spectrum breaker > In an update to the Target Spectrum Breaker module, it will be reworked to reduce a ship’s signature radius for a short duration and will still be locked to Battleships on release. ---
**Author:** ![Ragnarok\_Knight](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ragnarok_knight/32/277027_2.png) [@Ragnarok\_Knight](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ragnarok_Knight)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2021, 2:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696/303 "2021-06-10T14:45:59Z")
My last fight before i stopped playing eve for 4 years was my ishtar vs a hurricane, and then his ECM caldari battleship (scorpion) de-cloaked, jammed me, and they both warped off. The fight didn’t go his way so he logged in with his power of 2. Nothing wrong with that, and, although i don’t think of myself as a salty player (i’m not) it is of note that the exhaustion i felt must of added to my choice to stop playing eve for years. looking back on it , it was a ‘straw that broke the camels back’ sort of thing. What’s weird is only looking back on it now do i see it as an important fight. at the time, i just logged off and thought nothing of it, i just didn’t log back in for years aftewards. ECM is the most powerful of the E-wars, and one of the most frustrating game-play mechanics i’ve ever come across in my 25+ years of gaming. I’ve meditated on this problem alot, and i think i have a solution. No doubt someone will shoot it down, but that’s what debate, particularly online debate, is like My solution is this. Firstly, what is the problem with ECM? Well, the problem is that hard-counters too many things. Scram counters MWD, After burner counters Web. ECM counters bloody everything because almost everything requires a lock-on. Sniping? No lock Logi? No lock Web? no lock Scram? No lock Remote sensor boosting? No lock. No lock.No lockNo lock.No lock.No lock.No lock.No lock. etc etc The mid-slot dynamic gameplay is about having choices that effect each other to various degrees. As such, there is immense pressure on the mid-slots to have important equipment. An anti-ecm sensor booster is not only Unreliable, but useless against the opponents MWD. So, instead i’ll take that warp-scram. and then, No lock.No lock.No lock.No lock.No lock.No lock.No lock.No lock.No lock.No lock. RAGE It’s like playing paper sissor rock but the opponent can slap you in the face 20 times in a row, and you just hope that you roll a dice and get back to playing paper sissor rock. ok, so that’s the problem. The solution? Ok, so read this carefully and hear me out. What if, Sensor boosting midslots, used scripts, and you could choose between boosting SPEED, RANGE or STRENGTH. So, i would get rid of all the modules that just boot Strength (countering ECM probability). INSTEAD they should all be turned into SCRIPTS. These scripts you put onto a SENSORT BOOSTER. So, a player would place a sensor booster on their ship. Lets say, a hurricane. They would then keep various scripts in their cargo. One of them would boost sensor strength and help counter ECM Another would be targeting range another would be lock-speed. Now, as a pilot, i am taking my ‘anti-ecm’ equipment, but if i don’t encounter ECM, i can still get use out of my sensor enhancement. Perhaps i’m sniping and need a bit more lock-range. Perhaps i’m brawling and need to target frigs/drones. But, if ECM does come, i switch out the script to increase my chances against the ECM This change would allow ECM to be countered , and make the mid-slot-selection-game more interesting. It would bring ECM into the same range of power and intractability of Webifiers, MWD, Scram, Afterburner, tracking enhancers, Cap batteries, Cap boosters, etc. Instead of it existing like a pitiless god, floating above the entire mid-slot interaction dynamic, Slapping people in the face as they play paper-scissor-rock. The only defence against slapping being that one doesn’t play paper scissor rock at all! With my change, pilots would feel like they aren’t being slapped in the face. Instead, if they didn’t take any sensor boosting, it would just feel more like not having a Web vs an Afterburner, with the target escaping. I.e. FAR less frustrating. TLDR: Make a ‘sensor enhancer’ module and have it use scripts that boost different things, including strength to counter ECM, so then a pilot can use a mid-slot that counters ECM, but it’s not a waste of a precious slot when ECM isn’t brought on the field. This is good because it folds ECM back into other mid-slot dynamics instead of being the god of trolls. ---
**Author:** ![Moriar\_theChosen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/moriar_thechosen/32/368191_2.png) [@Moriar\_theChosen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Moriar_theChosen)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2021, 6:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696/304 "2021-06-10T18:37:31Z")
Don’t Sensor Boosters have an ECCM script? Or is this a necro troll post I fell for? ---
**Author:** ![Ragnarok\_Knight](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ragnarok_knight/32/277027_2.png) [@Ragnarok\_Knight](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ragnarok_Knight)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2021, 8:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696/305 "2021-06-10T20:19:08Z")
[Sensor Booster I | EVE Wiki | Fandom](https://eve.fandom.com/wiki/Sensor_Booster_I) targeting RANGE and scan RESOLUTION but not SENSOR STRENGTH sensor strength is the one that boosts your chances against ECM. Currently you need to sacrifice your precious-precious midslot to an ECCM module to (maybe) randomly counter ECM used against you. So, sensor boosters help vs Gallente E-war (dampeners) . ECCM helps vs Caldari E-war (ECM) The thing is tho, sensor boosting helps target small frigs or snipe at distance, even if dampeners aren’t on the field. My suggestion is to make all ECCM into scripts that attach to sensor boosters, so that sensor strength can also be adjusted. I would also make Sensor Boosters give a bit of a sensor strength boost as well. This way, the mid-slot isn’t wasted because ‘’ although no-one tried to jam me, at least i target things faster/further ‘’. Doesn’t really require new spaghetti code or a massive over-haul. Does however make ECCM easier to equip in precious-precious midslots. Adjust strength, cap cost, etc, and happy days, ECM wouldn’t be so game-breaking because people feel they can counter it without ‘wasting’ a precious-precious mid-slot. I get what CCP devs were doing by giving Gallente E-war and Caldari Ewar seperate mid-slot counter-gameplay options, but again, the problem is ECCM doesn’t DO anything for you if THEY don’t bring ECM. Thus, people simply do NOT use it, because mid-slots have so many other better options. Merging it all into the sensor booster module and using scripts makes it useful at all times, which means people equip it, which means they won’t hate on Caldari-E-war so much. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2021, 8:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696/306 "2021-06-10T20:40:09Z")
> [@Ragnarok\_Knight](#): > > Firstly, what is the problem with ECM? Well, the problem is that hard-counters too many things. Except it is not a “hard counter”, the **fact** is that there are both skills and modules to counter. Not skilling/fitting for ECM is your choice, not a game issue. ---
**Author:** ![Ragnarok\_Knight](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ragnarok_knight/32/277027_2.png) [@Ragnarok\_Knight](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ragnarok_Knight)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2021, 9:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696/307 "2021-06-10T21:46:15Z")
Skills? sure , one should train them Modules? No not really. The pressure for mid-slots is huge. also : ECM hard-counters almost anything that requires a lock. my suggestion works. It allows for people to take the modules that counter ECM without it having 0 reward if no ECM is brought by the enemy. or in other words If i take an after burner and they don’t have webs, I still have extra speed. If i take an MWD and they only have disruptor, i still have extra speed If i take ECCM and they don’t have ECM : i’ve got nothing. Yet, if they DO take ECM, its kinda random AND if i don’t have ECCM, almost any tactic i bring is is screwed because it requires a lock. The dynamic is NOT the same as web vs scram etc. My suggestion of changing sensor boosters to have ECCM scripts means that the sensor booster is still useful, much like an after burner is still useful, regardless of what the opponent brings. that makes my suggestion a GREAT solution to this very old eve problem. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2021, 9:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696/308 "2021-06-10T21:49:59Z")
> [@Ragnarok\_Knight](#): > > Modules? No not really. Scroll up and read the EVE Uni link. ---
**Author:** ![Ragnarok\_Knight](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ragnarok_knight/32/277027_2.png) [@Ragnarok\_Knight](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ragnarok_Knight)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2021, 9:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696/309 "2021-06-10T21:56:22Z")
i know how ECCM currently work on paper. [ECCM - Omni II | EVE Wiki | Fandom](https://eve.fandom.com/wiki/ECCM_-_Omni_II) See? it’s useless if they don’t bring ECM. It takes up a precious precious precious mid-slot ECCM should be a script for sensor boosters. do you have something else you’ve got in mind? ---
**Author:** ![Moriar\_theChosen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/moriar_thechosen/32/368191_2.png) [@Moriar\_theChosen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Moriar_theChosen)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 7:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696/310 "2021-06-12T07:20:57Z")
ECCM scripts for Sensor Boosters are 5 years old. This already happened. Just so people reading this don’t get confused… > **[r/Eve - Sensor boosters and ECCM modules being merged.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/45appd/sensor_boosters_and_eccm_modules_being_merged/)** > > 80 votes and 36 comments so far on Reddit ---
**Author:** ![Ragnarok\_Knight](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ragnarok_knight/32/277027_2.png) [@Ragnarok\_Knight](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ragnarok_Knight)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 8:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696/311 "2021-06-12T08:59:53Z")
I stopped playing about 5 years ago. So thank you. This makes me quite proud actually because i came up with this idea separately, and they already did it! I had my finger on the pulse, nice! Perhaps sensor boosters aren’t giving enough benefit when ECM is not brought to the field? Or maybe people aren’t aware how the mechanic works enough. ---
**Author:** ![Moriar\_theChosen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/moriar_thechosen/32/368191_2.png) [@Moriar\_theChosen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Moriar_theChosen)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 11:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696/312 "2021-06-12T11:31:12Z")
They’re very good actually. Sensor Boosters, I mean. I love them anyway. And welcome back to the game!! Vote Rixx Javix! ---
**Author:** ![Ragnarok\_Knight](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ragnarok_knight/32/277027_2.png) [@Ragnarok\_Knight](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ragnarok_Knight)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 11:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696/313 "2021-06-12T11:38:58Z")
It’s the best game in the world. of course it’s hard to balance, is balance even the right goal? ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 5:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696/314 "2021-06-12T17:06:42Z")
No, but the current devs have this “1v1 duel” mentality, they even added instanced PvP and magic travel to get to it. EVE is now a theme park with rides. ---
**Author:** ![Moriar\_theChosen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/moriar_thechosen/32/368191_2.png) [@Moriar\_theChosen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Moriar_theChosen)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 5:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696/315 "2021-06-12T17:11:39Z")
I think balance is a distraction. They just need to maintain the variety of cool stuff. I think they’re doing a great job keeping stuff fresh. New CovOps/BLOPS is gonna be cool. ---
**Author:** ![ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isd_dorrim_barstorlode/32/361083_2.png) [@ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ISD_Dorrim_Barstorlode)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2021, 1:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696/316 "2021-06-13T01:29:43Z")
---
**Author:** ![ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isd_dorrim_barstorlode/32/361083_2.png) [@ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ISD_Dorrim_Barstorlode)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2021, 1:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696/317 "2021-06-13T01:29:55Z")
Closed due to necromancy related issues. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ecm-balance-pass-november/115696.md?page=15)