# Economy and Trading Dead **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [January 7, 2024, 12:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327 "2024-01-07T00:46:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 7:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327/21 "2024-01-07T07:59:12Z")
Oh, yes, I agree that the easiest move is to add more sinks. Hence my idea to make ISK a physical commodity, with the added feature of maintaining current digital transfers at a fee. Otherwise, I’m not sure what they can do. Raise taxes again? Raise skill book costs? Various taxes and skill books make up the lion’s share of ISK consumption. They can do something like selling [soulbound] cosmetic items for ISK, like in other games, but I’m not sure that they’d do anything that could potentially affect their bottom line. It’s CCP we’re talking about after all, and _“greed is good.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Rail\_J\_kar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rail_j_kar/32/374429_2.png) [@Rail\_J\_kar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rail_J_kar)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 8:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327/22 "2024-01-07T08:03:57Z")
Your solutions are tied to nerfing the capabilities people currently have, and will be received about as well as scarcity was. That’s why I was suggesting the sinks should be tied to new content, so people can make a decision of whether or not to engage in it. Imo, the farms and fields thing is especially good, because it will make people money, but it wont directly produce isk but rather items that can be sold to other players. More or less, PI in space. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 8:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327/23 "2024-01-07T08:11:37Z")
It’s fine, but I’m not sure the game needs even more boring PvE things to do. CCP aren’t known for their ability to create compelling, engaging PvE content. Plus, the content isn’t likely to make a significant enough dent. They need something large-scale and sustainable. Either a direct method of destroying ISK directly, or selling non-marketable items like special SKINs. Or just raise taxes further. Lots of players today might not be aware of this, but in ages past, ISK had a much more reasonable value. Getting a triple battleship spawn in a null belt actually _meant_ something. Everything on the market was much more proportional back then. ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 8:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327/24 "2024-01-07T08:11:55Z")
> [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > Your solutions are tied to nerfing the capabilities people currently have No just the ones you like, where are your solutions are things you don’t personally care about. ---
**Author:** ![Rail\_J\_kar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rail_j_kar/32/374429_2.png) [@Rail\_J\_kar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rail_J_kar)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 8:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327/25 "2024-01-07T08:20:27Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > I’m not sure the game needs even more boring PvE things to do. CCP aren’t known for their ability to create compelling, engaging PvE content. That’s not an excuse to not try. They just need to get better at doing it. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > the content isn’t likely to make a significant enough dent. They need something large-scale and sustainable. That’s why the systems I mentioned were things that scaled well. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > in ages past, ISK had a much more reasonable value. I’m aware. I recall a time when a fully fit retriever was 5 million isk and plexing an account only cost 250mil. Battleship costs in particular are a bit crazy these days. > [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > > > Your solutions are tied to nerfing the capabilities people currently have > > No just the ones you like, where are your solutions are things you don’t personally care about. Destiny was literally talking about increasing taxes or creating a physical item that could be taxed more through extra fees. It would also be vulnerable to other players. So yes, it’s effectively talking about an income nerf to the player base. That wouldn’t be received well. ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 8:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327/26 "2024-01-07T08:51:50Z")
Not proportionally. Your suggestions are “here are some play styles I don’t personally care about to lets change them, and the game, in ways that are completely against what the game stands for” but you draw the line at > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > That wouldn’t be received well When it comes to trading ---
**Author:** ![Rail\_J\_kar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rail_j_kar/32/374429_2.png) [@Rail\_J\_kar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rail_J_kar)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 9:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327/27 "2024-01-07T09:00:05Z")
> [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > Your suggestions are “here are some play styles I don’t personally care about to lets change them, I suggested the introduction of new things. Sure they would impact the greater game as a whole, but this is a sandbox, so that’s going to be the case for anything that gets introduced. > [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > in ways that are completely against what the game stands for” I disagree. You took issue with the npcs doing things, but as I said before, poses have had automated defenses forever. Using an npc to do the same job isn’t that big of an issue. Obviously it would be balanced in such a way that a significant force would need players to defend. Npcs aren’t a substitution for that. And as for the hauling, the only place where the suggestion would be viable is stuff that people aren’t hauling currently. There’s a ton of stuff that just sits in hangers never getting sold or reprocessed or used in anyway. > [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > > > That wouldn’t be received well > > When it comes to trading It was in reference to an income reduction… for everyone except for traders (though an increased tax rate would be.) ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 9:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327/28 "2024-01-07T09:04:14Z")
Not buying it, it’s very obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Calamity\_Unleashed](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/calamity_unleashed/32/413414_2.png) [@Calamity\_Unleashed](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Calamity_Unleashed)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 10:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327/29 "2024-01-07T10:44:53Z")
> [@Anthony\_FatTony\_Amico](#): > > Money is that OP is long gone and won’t care _in a few days_. My guess is he doesn’t care _now_ > [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > Imagine if you owned a grocery store, and you had to pay the government a tax if you changed the price of eggs Please, don’t give them any ideas. @Rail_J_kar That’s some good ideas. I’m sure if implemented properly they would help with the hyperinflation in the game. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 10:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327/30 "2024-01-07T10:54:41Z")
> [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > I suggested the introduction of new things. Which is completely off topic and therefore a hijack of the thread. [https://forums.eveonline.com/faq](https://forums.eveonline.com/faq) > - Don’t divert a topic by changing it midstream. CCP **did** add more sinks to the game, namely through the industry. All sinks must be applied to the economy as a whole, otherwise some activities will benefit from the lack of sinks. That’s why market is the best place to add sinks, then industry, then farming (tax on bounties ?) Anything else (linked to a limited ativity) will have no effect on the economy, unless it’s so high that this activity becomes unusable. If anything, you could add a specific JF token to jump, like 5M per one LY, sold by NPC only like the cores. Or a regional tax on entrance, like 1/1000 the price of your cargo when you change region (reduced by the faction standing, you can refuse but then you are suspect and get a warp speed reduction for 15 min). Or a tax on respawning, based on the number of SP you have. But you already know all those ideas are crap and should instead be centralized in the market. The same way CCP did with industry, by increasing the “surcharge” tax on each sale. And then of course also add it to the contracts since contracts trading becomes more relevant noawadays. ---
**Author:** ![Eldstokkr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eldstokkr/32/361029_2.png) [@Eldstokkr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eldstokkr)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 11:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327/32 "2024-01-07T11:57:23Z")
> [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > For example, hiring npcs to protect structures. Hire real capsuleers. > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > Another potential option would be an npc courier system. Hire real capsuleers. We see your real motive. The Prophet admits, you’re slick for trying to slide it in an economics thread. Sadly though, you failed. > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > Poses have had automated defenses forever. It’s not that big of a deal. Yes, it is. > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > Negative. It’s too big of a risk to send a courier with valuables that can be destroyed with very little risk to the aggressor. I’m sure some people would do it, but the more successful they’d be at doing it, the more likely they would be to lose their items doing that in the future. (npcs using auto pilot routes would be fairly easy to kill.) The fact you do not know the regular shipping corporations who accomplish these feats daily suggest you do not even live in New Eden. > [@Dreg\_Apc](#): > > Imo they should introduce a **high sec NPC hauling service** , the ISK paid for having stuff delivered is deleted from the game and it will be a popular service if done right so it will be a big sink. Again, a terrible idea. Sadly, the original author is merely using shadow puppets to try and drum up support for his terrible ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Eldstokkr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eldstokkr/32/361029_2.png) [@Eldstokkr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eldstokkr)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 12:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327/34 "2024-01-07T12:02:24Z")
Fashion friend. It always makes people spend. I do wish someone would cut your strings though. ---
**Author:** ![Dreg\_Apc](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dreg_apc/32/381263_2.png) [@Dreg\_Apc](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dreg_Apc)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 12:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327/35 "2024-01-07T12:03:22Z")
I suggest that applying a skin costs ISK be looked at and it has to be done in a station and cant be done in space anymore as another option for an ISK sink ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 12:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327/36 "2024-01-07T12:06:29Z")
You can’t do that as it would hinder real life CCP income. Also this would be a drop in an ocean. So a completely useless addition. The market is already present, already taxed, already an isk sink, required - and increasing its sink is more effective than creating sinks in any other activity, also more fair. Another possibility is to increase the flat amount of isk spent to create a new order. scc\_flat like 100k isk instead of 100 isk. ---
**Author:** ![Dreg\_Apc](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dreg_apc/32/381263_2.png) [@Dreg\_Apc](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dreg_Apc)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 12:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327/37 "2024-01-07T12:10:19Z")
You dont want to tax market activity between players unless you want less of it. Here is another way of suggesting alternative isk sink (Add your own?) ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/4/6/a/46a84348b8c60bbfdd93ab407122b284d6232c54.png) ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 12:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327/38 "2024-01-07T12:11:55Z")
Yeah literally random values to make a stupid point. ---
**Author:** ![Rail\_J\_kar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rail_j_kar/32/374429_2.png) [@Rail\_J\_kar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rail_J_kar)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 12:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327/39 "2024-01-07T12:13:13Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > Which is completely off topic and therefore a hijack of the thread. It’s not off topic, op was complaining about the market taxes. People claimed those taxes exist as isk sinks (on top of being an attempt at fighting botting.) I suggested another potential way for CCP to get their isk sinks, rather than just relying on lazy market taxes. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > All sinks must be applied to the economy as a whole, otherwise some activities will benefit from the lack of sinks. That’s why market is the best place to add sinks, then industry, then farming (tax on bounties ?) I don’t really feel the need to defend my position on the ideas presented yet again, as none of the rebuttals diminish the claims I initially set up. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > JF token to jump, like 5M per one LY, sold by NPC only like the cores. I’m not really sure what you’re suggesting here? An additional tax on Jump Freighters? > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > Or a tax on respawning, based on the number of SP you have. This is what the old clone system was. It was removed because it was dis-incentivizing people to play when they had high levels of skill points. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > But you already know all those ideas are crap and should instead be centralized in the market. No, that’s lazy. There are many more potential ways to remove isk from the game, we don’t have to merely rely on market trading to do so. > [@Eldstokkr](#): > > The fact you do not know the regular shipping corporations who accomplish these feats daily suggest you do not even live in New Eden. Oh? Do tell me how much it would cost to ship 1 million worth of modules 10 jumps that would take up 1000m3 of space? All the rates I’ve seen from the major shipping orgs make such transfers not worth doing. Which basically leaves low level players, and they wont have any interest in doing that either. ---
**Author:** ![Dreg\_Apc](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dreg_apc/32/381263_2.png) [@Dreg\_Apc](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dreg_Apc)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 12:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327/40 "2024-01-07T12:14:14Z")
Why do people think saying someone else is stupid or their point is stupid is somehow smart? It only shows they have no arguments and in fact are the stupid ones. Just saying ---
**Author:** ![Eldstokkr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eldstokkr/32/361029_2.png) [@Eldstokkr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eldstokkr)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 12:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327/45 "2024-01-07T12:27:30Z")
> [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > Oh? Do tell me how much it would cost to ship 1 million worth of modules 10 jumps that would take up 1000m3 of space? All the rates I’ve seen from the major shipping orgs make such transfers not worth doing. Which basically leaves low level players, and they wont have any interest in doing that either. You can easily do it yourself. The Prophet sees you, as do others. We know the real reasons you suggest these things. Life in New Eden is not for you. > [@Dreg\_Apc](#): > > Why do people think saying someone else is stupid or their point is stupid is somehow smart? It only shows they have no arguments and in fact are the stupid ones. Just saying Do you ever get tired of the puppetry? Of not knowing which one you really are? ---
**Author:** ![Eldstokkr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eldstokkr/32/361029_2.png) [@Eldstokkr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eldstokkr)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 12:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327/47 "2024-01-07T12:38:20Z")
To The Prophet it sounds like you no longer want to live in New Eden. We suggest bio massing. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327.md?page=3)