# Economy and Trading Dead **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [January 7, 2024, 12:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327 "2024-01-07T00:46:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 12:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327/49 "2024-01-07T12:48:05Z")
Don’t feed the troll. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 1:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327/50 "2024-01-07T13:34:42Z")
> [@Yuri\_Mengeroth](#): > > This will surely send me back away from this game. > Shame. Eve is the only game with a real market economy and CCP is mismanaging it. Yes, relisting fees and a couple other adjustments (eg. Niarja) had a major impact on the trading game. Jita is even more the “there can be only one!” trade hub and the other hubs are greatly reduced. No, the new system didn’t really target bots (CCP just plain lies about stuff because they assume players are dumb). Bots are active, trade is down, and the primary goal as in most things CCP, was to make players spend more time in-game for less reward than previously. That said, ISK is still being made but the process has shifted. You’re newly returned (unless you already bailed, of course), so take a bit and look around and see how other people are still making ISK. You might find something else interesting, or you might just leave in disgust, but one things for sure: complaining about CCP mismanaging the game is a waste of your time. The time to stir up player reaction against that particular set of “fixes” is long past. ---
**Author:** ![Dreg\_Apc](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dreg_apc/32/381263_2.png) [@Dreg\_Apc](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dreg_Apc)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 1:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327/51 "2024-01-07T13:36:52Z")
Im tempted to login just to check out what CCP changed and how bad it is ---
**Author:** ![Rail\_J\_kar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rail_j_kar/32/374429_2.png) [@Rail\_J\_kar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rail_J_kar)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 1:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327/52 "2024-01-07T13:41:38Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > No you don’t. Your proposal does nothing as an isk sink, just because you pretend it does, does not mean it is the case. Are you daft? How can you not see that every single one of the suggestions I mentioned destroy isk from the game? That’s what an isk sink is. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > You are actively trying to hijkack threads The topic is about high tax rates … I explained an alternative. This isn’t hard to understand. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > You are a ■■■■■■■ parasite. I mean… if you’re going to talk like that, I’m just going to mute you. But it’s not like you were contributing anything to this conversation anyway, so there’s no loss. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 1:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327/53 "2024-01-07T13:43:35Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > trade is down source ? > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > and the primary goal as in most things CCP, was to make players spend more time in-game for less reward than previously. The primary goal as most things is to make people enjoy the game, so to make changes that make people enjoy the game. If this requires to increase the isk faucets as well as the isk sinks to avoid new player not being able to afford basic ships due to inflations, then I’m all in. Taxes are but a part of the equation when you run a business. Only people complaining about taxes in general are those who have no understanding in the economy. And if people as so Karen about it, then don’t hit the broad side of the door on the way out. > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > That’s what an isk sink is. No that’s not. More precisely, reducing the trade sinks to add your proposal would actually provoke a reduction in isk sink. So no, your idea is not to add an isk sink : it is to remove taxes and add an unrelated feature that you try to force feed. Removing your account would be an isk sink (assuming you have some). So your proposal is as valuable as to remove your account. > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > I explained an alternative. You did not. You explained exactly nothing of an alternative. Your post have nothing to do with the topic. > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > Nor is it worth paying someone else to do. It is. especially when it’s not worth doing it yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Dreg\_Apc](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dreg_apc/32/381263_2.png) [@Dreg\_Apc](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dreg_Apc)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 1:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327/54 "2024-01-07T13:45:38Z")
> Only people complaining about taxes in general are those who have no understanding in the economy. Anyone who understands economics and is honest would attest to how detrimental taxes can be ---
**Author:** ![Rail\_J\_kar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rail_j_kar/32/374429_2.png) [@Rail\_J\_kar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rail_J_kar)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 1:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327/55 "2024-01-07T13:46:02Z")
> [@Eldstokkr](#): > > > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > > > Oh? Do tell me how much it would cost to ship 1 million worth of modules 10 jumps that would take up 1000m3 of space? All the rates I’ve seen from the major shipping orgs make such transfers not worth doing. Which basically leaves low level players, and they wont have any interest in doing that either. > > You can easily do it yourself. That’s the point, it’s not worth doing yourself. Nor is it worth paying someone else to do. Which means the proposal is aimed at activity that doesn’t currently exist in game… and provides an isk sink. ---
**Author:** ![Nabi\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nabi_kim/32/390748_2.png) [@Nabi\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nabi_Kim)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 2:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327/56 "2024-01-07T14:01:40Z")
> [@Yuri\_Mengeroth](#): > > The 4 digit tick amount is fine, that was enough. Kill the relist fees and make it an increasing wait time between changes. What does station trading add to the game? Trade between regions, sure. That adds to the game. You put a ship in space filled with trade goods, therefore feeding the ganking ecosystem, and bringing them to another region where they may be scarce, therefore supplying other players. But trading in a single station? Buy something for 10 million ISK and sell it for 11 million ISK? You just screw prices up for other players to line your own pockets while never undocking and providing content for anyone other than yourself. I say good riddance. > [@Yuri\_Mengeroth](#): > > This will surely send me back away from this game. Doesn’t sound like you were really adding anything of value to the community. See ya. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 2:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327/57 "2024-01-07T14:24:25Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > > > trade is down > > source ? Asking for “source” on that question is a good indication you haven’t been trading, and certainly not in all the hubs. If you don’t know anything about a topic, why would you try to argue points in it? It’s likely pointless because people who just argue for the sake of arguing are rarely actually looking to increase their knowledge base, but if you want more info on it you could start with this thread: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/v6jd7r/velocity\_of\_isk\_what\_is\_it\_and\_should\_i\_care/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/v6jd7r/velocity_of_isk_what_is_it_and_should_i_care/) and then perhaps move on to Eve University or some other source of all the knowledge you’re missing. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > > > and the primary goal as in most things CCP, was to make players spend more time in-game for less reward than previously. > > The primary goal as most things is to make people enjoy the game, so to make changes that make people enjoy the game. Honestly mate, if you’re going to argue that most of the game mechanics CCP has done in the past 4 years is to “make people enjoy the game”, then you’re so far out of touch there’s really no point in discussion. And whatever you’re babbling on about with increasing ISK faucets for new players has nothing whatsoever to do with my post you replied to. Do you even think before you type? I’m sure you can do a little better than this. Try harder. Learn something about what you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 2:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327/58 "2024-01-07T14:27:43Z")
Why not flip the sales tax and make the buyer pay some of the taxes? ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 2:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327/59 "2024-01-07T14:28:28Z")
> [@Nabi\_Kim](#): > > But trading in a single station? _Theoretically_ it allows people who want to sell at a price to sell faster, knowing they lost some potential benefit. It also should help demand meet production, by reducing the gap. _Practically_ it allows people to sell at increased price by benefiting market spike in purchase, that is the lack of adaptation of the market to reality. Namely, limit to 90D, limit of number of orders, limit of expressiveness of the market (like minimum/maximum price), in general limit of legal bot access (meaning illegal bots are better). This creates distortions in the market which reduce stability, therefore the economy as a whole. Also they work with much lower margin than the producers (otherwise the producers would buy the items at BO too) meaning they do lower cuts than the producers, so they don’t actually help reduce the price gaps. > [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](#): > > Why not flip the sales tax and make the buyer pay some of the taxes? Would not change a practical thing, the idea is to place isk sink per valuated transaction. Also not making any sense : The market says you must pay X but when you actually pay you must pay X+T ? so your order may not pass because you have enough in your wallet for market price but not enough for taxes ??? > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Asking for “source” on that question is a good indication you haven’t been trading, Nice personal attack. If you don’t have source, then don’t make stupid claims. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Honestly mate, Honestly mate, if you have no ability to read and discuss, GTFO. I’m not sure you can do a little better than ranting. Your opinion is a waste of forum data. ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 2:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327/60 "2024-01-07T14:38:30Z")
Fun of being in the u.s. guess im just used to seeing ($14.99) on a price tag but when paying ($15.89) Or my favorite now (not really) making the customers pay the credit card fees. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 2:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327/61 "2024-01-07T14:40:52Z")
Yeah you should only see “pay 15.89” . Because that’s what you actually have to pay. Especially when there are multiple tax rates and rebates. Same for credit cart fees, WTF is that, a third-world country ? Pay 10. Then you have tax. And local charge _for reason_ . Then to tip. You need to get your calculator every time you go out ! Can’t even tell what you can afford with 10. ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 2:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327/62 "2024-01-07T14:44:05Z")
Store i managed in 2011 we charged customers the fees only if they were buying less than $5. I even have the option of charging a client 3.35% for processing fees. Which at 3.35% of $65 (no sales tax added or charged) is a small price to pay for doing business i wont shift to my patients ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 2:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327/63 "2024-01-07T14:47:31Z")
That makes sense when the bank fee is flat. eg “below 10 there will be an added 1 per CC payment”. If it’s % then just add it to the price ? Along with VAT and other taxes. And add a rebate when paying cash. It’s better to show “rebate 3.24% on cash payment” than “3.35% additional CC payment fee” ? ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 6:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327/64 "2024-01-07T18:47:49Z")
An isk sink in the forum of a direct sales tax is reasonable, that’s how real-world governments operate - but the relisting fee is asinine, and any country which did that would destroy its economy. Nobody is gonna open a grocery store if they have to pay taxes everytime they change a price, or everytime they move an item, or everytime they fail to sell an item. ---
**Author:** ![Eldstokkr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eldstokkr/32/361029_2.png) [@Eldstokkr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eldstokkr)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 6:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327/65 "2024-01-07T18:50:18Z")
> [@Dreg\_Apc](#): > > Im tempted to login just to check out what CCP changed and how bad it is The Prophet does not understand why people continue to dwell here when they no longer live in New Eden. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 6:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327/66 "2024-01-07T18:54:41Z")
He’s been trolling since the beginning. Don’t feed him, he’s not worth your time. ---
**Author:** ![Nabi\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nabi_kim/32/390748_2.png) [@Nabi\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nabi_Kim)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 7:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327/67 "2024-01-07T19:47:14Z")
I want to know what the NPCs are doing for us with our tax money? Better Stargates? Better station environments? So far NUTHIN. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 7:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/economy-and-trading-dead/435327/68 "2024-01-07T19:51:06Z")
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