# Empire Standings are Completely Broken **URL:** \ **Category:** Missions\ **Created:** [December 18, 2017, 7:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/empire-standings-are-completely-broken/46059 "2017-12-18T07:01:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Zence](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zence/32/44475_2.png) [@Zence](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zence)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 7:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/empire-standings-are-completely-broken/46059/1 "2017-12-18T07:01:54Z")
Turning in Serpentis Data Center Tags, shouldn’t negatively effect alternate Empire standings, yet sure enough when I turned pirate tags into the Gallente Fed data centers for increased standings with that empire, I now have a -1 with Caldari, Amarr and the Amatarr, along with Thukker mix. This is ridiculous since there was no reason for it to happen. Just venting, since I was going out of my way to skip empire missions to keep the character sort of pure. Now it’s a matter of training Diplomacy, but it still makes no reasonable sense there shouldn’t exist a common empire data base that opposing factions share… just to screw over standings with out connecting any explanation to it in the storyline. ---
**Author:** ![Quelza](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quelza/32/36089_2.png) [@Quelza](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Quelza)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 7:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/empire-standings-are-completely-broken/46059/2 "2017-12-18T07:07:35Z")
Not sure that qualifies as “completely broken”, but yeah, does seem kind of dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Alirna\_Arbiter](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alirna_arbiter/32/31192_2.png) [@Alirna\_Arbiter](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alirna_Arbiter)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 7:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/empire-standings-are-completely-broken/46059/3 "2017-12-18T07:07:52Z")
IIRC standings gains with any given faction are also applied (at a much lower rate) to other factions based on the other factions standings with the first faction. IE if faction A hates faction B but loves faction C, then increasing faction B will lower faction A, but increasing faction C will increase faction A. Please correct me if I’m wrong, its been a few years, but I’ sure I read that somewhere. But again, the effects derived gains and losses are much less, and vary depending on HOW MUCH a given faction is liked/hated. ---
**Author:** ![Rivr\_Luzade](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rivr_luzade/32/311061_2.png) [@Rivr\_Luzade](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rivr_Luzade)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 7:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/empire-standings-are-completely-broken/46059/4 "2017-12-18T07:10:01Z")
You increased your Gallente standing, and Caldari are at war with the Gallente and Amarr/Ammatar are allied with Caldari. Data Centers act like storyline missions, which also negatively impact standings of hostile factions. Why is that broken? The only way to increase standings with a faction without impacting hostile factions is the SOE Epic Arc. Maybe you should educate yourself before you randomly increase standings with factions. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Little](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/do_little/32/411571_2.png) [@Do\_Little](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Do_Little)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 8:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/empire-standings-are-completely-broken/46059/5 "2017-12-18T08:06:43Z")
Standings used to matter more in the past and CCP have hinted that they may matter more in the future. As an industrialist, I try to keep my haulers friends with everyone: ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/a/f/af6bc863b422f2848568bc15398a4c3c83216783.jpg) but that shouldn’t be possible - these guys are at war! ---
**Author:** ![Yourmoney\_Mywallet](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yourmoney_mywallet/32/168387_2.png) [@Yourmoney\_Mywallet](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yourmoney_Mywallet)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 10:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/empire-standings-are-completely-broken/46059/6 "2017-12-18T10:19:32Z")
> [@Do\_Little](#): > > but that shouldn’t be possible - these guys are at war! Sure that should be possible - like any good industrialist you’re simply playing all sides of the war! ---
**Author:** ![Zence](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zence/32/44475_2.png) [@Zence](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zence)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 3:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/empire-standings-are-completely-broken/46059/7 "2017-12-18T15:00:00Z")
It would seem it’s all about immersion and could be so much more meaningful than it is, thus IMO it’s broken. The original programmers decided more than a decade ago, that faction balance should be only used as an empire balance issue with a push/pull hard line attached to all factions. This is far too simple for such an otherwise complex game. ---
**Author:** ![Agondray](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/agondray/32/414989_2.png) [@Agondray](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Agondray)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 4:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/empire-standings-are-completely-broken/46059/8 "2017-12-18T16:25:29Z")
oh youd hate mine, im like 5+ with everyone ---
**Author:** ![Chainsaw\_Plankton](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chainsaw_plankton/32/256180_2.png) [@Chainsaw\_Plankton](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chainsaw_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 10:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/empire-standings-are-completely-broken/46059/9 "2017-12-18T22:27:46Z")
> [@Alirna\_Arbiter](#): > > IIRC standings gains with any given faction are also applied (at a much lower rate) to other factions based on the other factions standings with the first faction. > > IE if faction A hates faction B but loves faction C, then increasing faction B will lower faction A, but increasing faction C will increase faction A. > > Please correct me if I’m wrong, its been a few years, but I’ sure I read that somewhere. But again, the effects derived gains and losses are much less, and vary depending on HOW MUCH a given faction is liked/hated. yep, you can see just how much each faction likes/dislikes the other factions in the derived standings tab if you show info on a faction. the direct gain is always bigger than the derived gains/losses, so it is possible to keep all factions around +5, and then with the epic arcs you can push them even higher as there are no derived changes for epic arcs. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 11:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/empire-standings-are-completely-broken/46059/10 "2017-12-19T11:25:35Z")
> [@Chainsaw\_Plankton](#): > > the direct gain is always bigger than the derived gains/losses, so it is possible to keep all factions around +5, and then with the epic arcs you can push them even higher as there are no derived changes for epic arcs. hmm not really, when I do matar storyline I lose more amarr standing (while being at 1 after skills) than I gain matar standing(I am around 5 after skills). If I then do amarr storyline, I lose more matar than I gain amarr. Basically, doing matar/amarr screws my standing. ---
**Author:** ![Kithran](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kithran/32/44691_2.png) [@Kithran](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kithran)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 12:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/empire-standings-are-completely-broken/46059/11 "2017-12-19T12:34:01Z")
Gain/Loss isn’t an absolute amount but a percentage change based on how close you are to +10 or -10 standing. There is also a minimum and maximum you can get to from derived standings (i.e. change in empire a standings because of a change in empire b). So for example you can get to +10 with minmatar and only be -2 with amarr after skills. A single lvl 1 amarr storyline mission may drop your minmatar standing to +9 whereas if you started at +1 to minmatar it may only drop to +.99 ---
**Author:** ![Lazzze\_Kongo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lazzze_kongo/32/42320_2.png) [@Lazzze\_Kongo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lazzze_Kongo)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 1:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/empire-standings-are-completely-broken/46059/12 "2017-12-20T01:04:00Z")
I think it’s only logical that helping one group out will piss of their enemies so while you gain standings with one group you loose standing with others. What I think is kind of weird is how pirate faction standing seems to have no effect on their attitude towards you. Even if I get max standing with one of the pirate factions they still shoot me as soon as I land on grid. And even if I tank my standing with them down the absolute bottom, I am still allowed to dock in their stations in NPC Null. ---
**Author:** ![Agondray](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/agondray/32/414989_2.png) [@Agondray](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Agondray)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2018, 8:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/empire-standings-are-completely-broken/46059/13 "2018-01-01T08:18:11Z")
yeah you can just tank those rats and not lose any standings. im on my 4th arc no empire losses doing that. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2018, 9:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/empire-standings-are-completely-broken/46059/14 "2018-01-01T09:46:15Z")
> [@Zence](#): > > Turning in Serpentis Data Center Tags, shouldn’t negatively effect alternate Empire standings, yet sure enough when I turned pirate tags into the Gallente Fed data centers for increased standings with that empire, I now have a -1 with Caldari, Amarr and the Amatarr, along with Thukker mix. Yeah, gaining positive standings with an Empire Faction will incur both positive and negative derived standings with all other Empire Factions. For traveling around in high sec as well as getting reduced fees for Market / Broker or Reprocessing materials within NPC stations, the only Faction standings that matter are for the Empires that control high sec systems : Amarr Empire Caldari State Minmatar Republic Gallente Federation Khanid Kingdom Ammatar Mandate The Interbus Concord Assembly Granted you don’t really want to do missions to keep your character neutral or positive with the other high sec Factions but unfortunately if you want to increase standing with a specific Faction, you’ll also have to work on the other main Factions as well. The easiest quickest way to do that is to take the info listed in the ‘[Faction Standing Repair Plan](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/faction-standing-repair-plan-aka-the-plan/8008)’ and consolidate it into steps pertaining to your specific situation. In other words, since you’re only at -1 with Caldari, you wouldn’t have to work ‘The Plan’ very much to have the standings for all main Factions to be close to equal. ---
**Author:** ![Tzar\_Sinak](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tzar_sinak/32/39415_2.png) [@Tzar\_Sinak](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tzar_Sinak)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2018, 6:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/empire-standings-are-completely-broken/46059/15 "2018-01-01T18:44:53Z")
This might help: [http://www.newedenlibrary.net/eon/faction\_standings.shtml](http://www.newedenlibrary.net/eon/faction_standings.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![Alderson\_Point](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alderson_point/32/171891_2.png) [@Alderson\_Point](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alderson_Point)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 8:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/empire-standings-are-completely-broken/46059/16 "2018-01-03T08:45:38Z")
**_WARNING_** That one is out of date, I believe this is the latest if anyone else can confirm? [http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Standings#Standing\_Relationships](http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Standings#Standing_Relationships) Note thukker, yours shows negative to minmatar, where currently there is a positive relationship. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 2:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/empire-standings-are-completely-broken/46059/17 "2018-01-09T14:07:37Z")
I can confirm the Eve-wiki standing relationship graph is correct. In fact the New Eden graph was never correct even when it first appeared in the old forums. That’s why I only linked the Eve-wiki graph and not the New Eden graph within ‘The Plan’. Like Alderson Point said, you can tell by checking Thukker Tribe standing relationship with the other Factions. At first Thukker Tribe was viewed as a Pirate Faction and had negative standings with all Factions. Then over half a dozen years ago CCP / Concord granted Faction status to Thukker Tribe who then gained positive standing with the Jove and Minmatar. In my opinion Thukker Tribe should have also been granted positive standings with all Factions that are allied with Minmatar. Also the Minmatar Lv 4 Epic Arc should have had one of the ending paths give Faction Standing increase to Thukker Tribe. ---
**Author:** ![Tzar\_Sinak](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tzar_sinak/32/39415_2.png) [@Tzar\_Sinak](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tzar_Sinak)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 3:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/empire-standings-are-completely-broken/46059/18 "2018-01-09T15:27:02Z")
Thanks for the info. I have updated my bookmarks. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 3:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/empire-standings-are-completely-broken/46059/19 "2018-04-09T15:27:08Z")
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