# Encounter Surveillance System projected to be a "Permanent thing" **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [July 2, 2020, 9:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-projected-to-be-a-permanent-thing/252650 "2020-07-02T21:10:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 3:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-projected-to-be-a-permanent-thing/252650/62 "2020-07-03T03:18:09Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Hello, I would like to take a moment of your time to talk to you about your lord and savior, Heavy Energy Neutralizer. lol Hello My name is Elder Heavy Energy Neutralizer And I would like to share with you the most amazing book ![Captura de Tela 2020-07-03 às 00.17.53](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/e/f/efb84d2386a8938651c0d3c28932d41b7f038643.png) ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 3:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-projected-to-be-a-permanent-thing/252650/63 "2020-07-03T03:22:20Z")
![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/b/5/b5513482ddcdfa141ec7bb25580405575036fcc0.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 3:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-projected-to-be-a-permanent-thing/252650/64 "2020-07-03T03:27:38Z")
> [@Daro\_Mozu](#): > > Why is he allowed to get 100% of intel and i am not? Because you’re choosing to engage in PvE farming instead of intel gathering. If you decide to engage in a game of intel warfare instead then you will have equal intel on each other. Why should you get the full benefits of PvE income while also having intel parity? Also, why don’t you answer the question of how much tank, how much damage, etc, with “enough to kill your pathetic ship (and anything you cyno in), now GTFO and bother someone else”? Does it really matter how much intel someone gathers on you if all of that intel says that you are stronger than them and they have no hope of anything but a swift death if they try to attack you? > Interesting way of thinking “they have to do this, this and that while god forbid ccp somehow touches my playstyle”. I don’t even use cloaked ships in PvP very often, and almost never for AFK cloaking. I just hate entitled nullbear farmers who suffer a mental breakdown if there’s a non-blue name in local that they can’t remove. > No need to follow Sure there is. If we’re going to blackout random mechanics for the sake of having more blackouts then why should it be limited to something you want to get rid of? > Dont you also have to, i dont know, put some effort? We do. Against any alliance that isn’t useless renter trash PvP players have to work hard to get kills and suffer frequent losses. Don’t blame the PvP players for the fact that your alliance sucks at EVE and can’t do anything but die helplessly against anything that isn’t an NPC or asteroid. > Why do you hate nullbear trash? Because entitled nullbear farmers still produce way too much ISK and materials. And because they whine and cry any time their ELITE MAXIMUM TICKS are threatened by the mere chance of a PvP player attacking them. ---
**Author:** ![Daro\_Mozu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daro_mozu/32/184030_2.png) [@Daro\_Mozu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daro_Mozu)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 3:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-projected-to-be-a-permanent-thing/252650/65 "2020-07-03T03:51:54Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Because you’re choosing to engage in PvE farming instead of intel gathering. If you decide to engage in a game of intel warfare instead then you will have equal intel on each other. Why should you get the full benefits of PvE income while also having intel parity? People prefer to not PVE when there is a cloacky in their system, cynos and all that. If we are talking about equality: why then he is perfectly able to shut down entire system and keep it that way from dt to dt? Why people can´t shut down his activity? If there is a single bomber versus, let´s say, dominix - sure thing, a bomber is inferior. You somehow fail to mention though that this little bomber will teleport his friends that will just delete every subcap ship (and today - even certain caps) before their target will even be able to type “oshit”. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Sure there is. If we’re going to blackout random mechanics for the sake of having more blackouts then why should it be limited to something you want to get rid of? You know what did i mean but you are still spinning things up like a 5-year old child. Sad to read such stuff. Can i have your metrics about what ammount of ISK and materials nullsec “should” produce to make you say “ah, there we go, proper level of production”? Just want to know what do you base your opinion on except “i said so”. And btw: i hate entiteled pvpers who not only “know the way” and getting seizures when someone mentions issues with other-than-their playstiles but also who are making wild (and horryficly inaccurate) statements about someone, mixing it with absolute disrespect against their counterparts as players that may have another vision of how things should work. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 3:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-projected-to-be-a-permanent-thing/252650/66 "2020-07-03T03:57:59Z")
> [@Daro\_Mozu](#): > > People prefer to not PVE when there is a cloacky in their system, cynos and all that. And what’s your point? Farmers don’t always get what they want. If they want no-risk PvE then they can go back to highsec. > why then he is perfectly able to shut down entire system and keep it that way from dt to dt? I don’t know, ask the useless perma-victims who are so weak that they allow a single AFK ship to shut down their system. Solving this problem is 100% within the control of the residents of the system. > You somehow fail to mention though that this little bomber will teleport his friends that will just delete every subcap ship (and today - even certain caps) before their target will even be able to type “oshit”. Then why are you flying solo? If you know that (as should be the case) a fight between one ship vs. many ships almost always ends in swift death for the solo player _why aren’t you bringing friends_? Give the Dominix a few dozen friends in Dominixes on-grid and suddenly that bomber might think twice about the suicidal attack they’re about to launch. > Can i have your metrics about what ammount of ISK and materials nullsec “should” produce to make you say “ah, there we go, proper level of production”? The metric is “when nullsec residents start a meaningful war due to scarcity of resources”. Big blue blob still exists? Too much income from nullsec. ---
**Author:** ![Jenn\_aSide](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jenn_aside/32/384682_2.png) [@Jenn\_aSide](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jenn_aSide)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 3:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-projected-to-be-a-permanent-thing/252650/67 "2020-07-03T03:59:07Z")
That’s what [CCP thought in the past](https://www.eveonline.com/article/those-anomaly-changes-in-full). > Expected consequences > > - Some alliances will immediately start wanting to look for better space > - In the longer run, there’ll be more conflicts going on, with more localized goals > - Newer alliances will have an easier time getting a foothold in nullsec > - Coalitions will be marginally less stable > - Alliances will have to choose more carefully what space they develop, where their staging systems are, and so on (low truesec systems generally tend to be in strategically inconvenient places) It didn’t work because _there are other places in EVE to make isk_. We just went and ran incursions, missions and/or dived into wormholes etc. CCP had to unnerf anomalies not even 7 months later just to have more people in nullsec lol. Hell, now we have Burner missions and the Abyss. History repeats itself because no one ever learns from mistakes. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 4:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-projected-to-be-a-permanent-thing/252650/68 "2020-07-03T04:00:31Z")
> [@Jenn\_aSide](#): > > It didn’t work because _there are other places in EVE to make isk_ . This is also a fixable problem. CCP has been way too generous in pandering to risk-averse PvE players. Take away anything farmable and force players to engage in conflict if they want to succeed. (And while we’re at it, delete the abyss mistake entirely.) ---
**Author:** ![Jenn\_aSide](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jenn_aside/32/384682_2.png) [@Jenn\_aSide](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jenn_aSide)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 4:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-projected-to-be-a-permanent-thing/252650/69 "2020-07-03T04:04:11Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Kind of sounds to me that a group in that situation has overextended its reach, since logic dictates that the space you “hold” is space that you can actually defend, and that being able to farm in systems that can’t be defended is just a misguided sense of entitlement. > > But what do I know about logic? I’m just a dumb griefer, lol. Me hit club on head for make juice come out, buh! That’s a really ideological way to look at it. It doesn’t change the fact that the most l;likely outcome of this is the opposite of what people want. Just like Blackout (where people thought it was going to be great only to find out that it was the opposite of great lol). We’ll see when it happens, I’m just saying it’s kind of dumb for people to celebrate before a thing happens. I’m old enough to remember how people just _knew_ that Dominion’s Sov system was gonna be GREAT for small gangs and “take that Goons” only to turn around and watch Goons and the like become super powerful in large part due Dominion Sov… ---
**Author:** ![Jenn\_aSide](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jenn_aside/32/384682_2.png) [@Jenn\_aSide](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jenn_aSide)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 4:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-projected-to-be-a-permanent-thing/252650/70 "2020-07-03T04:08:09Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Take away anything farmable and force players to engage in conflict if they want to succeed. You can’t force anyone to do anything in a video game. That’s another thing CCP and others don’t get. People just stop playing. The comments in this thread demonstrate to me that people learned nothing from blackout. Rather than try to force behavior (which , again, doesn’t work), it’s always better for sandbox game designers to give better gameplay options and let players decide what to do and be creative. Of all companies, CCP should know this because EVE players have been defying their intentional game designs since the moment the Beta launched. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 4:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-projected-to-be-a-permanent-thing/252650/71 "2020-07-03T04:12:27Z")
> [@Jenn\_aSide](#): > > People just stop playing. And the fundamental problem here is that CCP has built their business on pandering to risk-averse PvE players who don’t belong in EVE, and now they can’t do anything that would meaningfully hurt the farmers without losing money. It would be great for the game to impose a proper risk vs. reward balance and watch as the farmers all ragequit. It would bring EVE back to its founding ideas of being a Darwinist simulation of warfare and competitive capitalism. Those of us who remain could laugh at those who are too weak to survive. But it would be bad for CCP’s financial reports and so we’re stuck with excessive ISK faucets and menial farming content. ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 5:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-projected-to-be-a-permanent-thing/252650/72 "2020-07-03T05:26:11Z")
🔴 Makes me wonder: How hard is it to program a bot for your bot farm that sits on this ESS and just empties it when someone is reported next door or 2 systems over. I think people will be very disappointed if they believe they will have a field day in botting land. ---
**Author:** ![Dictateur\_Imperator](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dictateur_imperator/32/452018_2.png) [@Dictateur\_Imperator](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dictateur_Imperator)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 7:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-projected-to-be-a-permanent-thing/252650/73 "2020-07-03T07:55:21Z")
That a part of the problem. Each layer of difficulty you add to a pressure system make bot stronger and real human weaker actually. So welcome to botland… the exact oppoisite of what CCP think. ---
**Author:** ![Dictateur\_Imperator](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dictateur_imperator/32/452018_2.png) [@Dictateur\_Imperator](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dictateur_Imperator)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 8:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-projected-to-be-a-permanent-thing/252650/74 "2020-07-03T08:02:53Z")
PVP player who use perma cloack are risk averse. PVE plater in vast majority don’t care of loss… when they could have a hope to survive. The problem is not to loss pve ship, or mining ship. The problem is not you will have ESS stealing or need to have one more alt to collect. The true problem is CCP add layer of difficulty after layer of difficulty on a system who proof it make the opposite of what they attend. And the other problem is frustration, why people have hate blackout (and yes a lot of people have hate it, fact speack justy check subscription and average connexion, CCP could said yes but this or this … they have cancel in emergency and we have they’re income number), beacause of frsutration, attacker have all key in his end to blap you defender near no key to defend. The solution is to make the opposite to create more emergent and interesting gameplay. Remove cloack, byut yon want surprise people ? Ok you are now invisble after using WH unless you speak or be shoot by someone (or shoot someone, or dock, have an interaction) BUT not thera (you are report by SOE, it will force people to use a WH without npc station before raid not a big deal). But you are combat probable so you could be counter. In the same way permanent ESS is a nice thing … but not with actual 0.0. CCP need to cancel a lot of pve change to make it viable for pressure on PVE. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 8:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-projected-to-be-a-permanent-thing/252650/75 "2020-07-03T08:48:53Z")
What even is this ---
**Author:** ![you\_are\_evil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/you_are_evil/32/246754_2.png) [@you\_are\_evil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/you_are_evil)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 9:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-projected-to-be-a-permanent-thing/252650/76 "2020-07-03T09:09:41Z")
i don’t get it. what decide ccp to achieve with this change? at first it reduce ticks. at second in such areas with many hunters it is direct nerf for krabs and free isk for hunters, because nobody defending ESS 24/7. In ‘bot only’ areas with no/less hunters it is buff to isk. This change is bad for anyone like me. i dont have 100 peeple to defend and do rat with myrmidon for 8m ticks. i dont need that ■■■■… it is allready all brocken. CCP, please go to populated nullsec like delve and count hunters. it is to much. and i can no more read the BS about umbrella. that exists for Rorquals only. (if any). no one save carriers or other small stuff. it’s a big BS about safety. Only if big fleet is comming going ping out. look at ZKB how much destruction happens in delve. Please stop buffing hunters. they are allready lazzy (wait 4 cyno, drop, kill, hide, bridge back to npc staging, or new cyno, repeat…) and countles. Only few are active hunting. the most have cloaky alt nerds 23/7 for lazzy cyno drop. TLDR. i assume the change is to nerf isk again and to attract more hunters again and again. PS: which kind of LP will produce that new ESS? (if any, if no LP then it is another nerf.) ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 9:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-projected-to-be-a-permanent-thing/252650/77 "2020-07-03T09:12:00Z")
> [@Dictateur\_Imperator](#): > > Personal attack means you have no valid fact and argument to use. No, it doesn’t. Calling out assholes like yourself is the valid and right thing to do. The only ones who benefit from not being called the assholes they are, are the assholes who do not wish to be called out, so others don’t know what a cluster-■■■■ of an asshole you are. Just look at your name. Dictateur Imperator. How ■■■■■■■ insecure can you be? You think high of yourself, but you pretend you’re too stupid to spell … or worse, you really ARE this stupid, unable to improve even your spelling. We’re just gonna stomp over you, if we need to, and that’s the ■■■■■■■ end of it. ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 9:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-projected-to-be-a-permanent-thing/252650/78 "2020-07-03T09:13:35Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > What even is this A mouthbreathing, drooling virgin who thinks he’s important people. ---
**Author:** ![Pith\_Hurdaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pith_hurdaa/32/198748_2.png) [@Pith\_Hurdaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pith_Hurdaa)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 9:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-projected-to-be-a-permanent-thing/252650/79 "2020-07-03T09:31:17Z")
This can be a very good content generator if handled correctly. If you see the enemy gang incoming, instead of just docking up the ratting ship and wait for them to leave, you´ll better dock the ratting ship and undock the combat ship to defend your bounties. On the other hand if not handled properly it can be cheesed in SO many ways by both sides ( residents and roamers ) that I won´t be surprised if it is just a total screwed fukfest. ---
**Author:** ![Dictateur\_Imperator](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dictateur_imperator/32/452018_2.png) [@Dictateur\_Imperator](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dictateur_Imperator)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 10:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-projected-to-be-a-permanent-thing/252650/80 "2020-07-03T10:14:57Z")
You’re tears are delicious, more rage. I can’t wait to collect you’re salt when pve player will drop and CCP will hard nerf cloacky (or game will close). ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 10:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-projected-to-be-a-permanent-thing/252650/81 "2020-07-03T10:15:32Z")
> [@Dictateur\_Imperator](#): > > You’re Your\* … twice. What a wannabe. 🙄 [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-projected-to-be-a-permanent-thing/252650.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-projected-to-be-a-permanent-thing/252650.md?page=5)