# Encounter Surveillance System Update **URL:** \ **Category:** Announcements\ **Tags:** feedback, official, devblog\ **Created:** [October 30, 2020, 5:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-update/277014 "2020-10-30T17:28:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 62
**Author:** ![Brigog\_Evingod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brigog_evingod/32/244520_2.png) [@Brigog\_Evingod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brigog_Evingod)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2020, 10:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-update/277014/1371 "2020-12-04T22:16:58Z")
The ESS system is terrible. As a returning player who doesn’t have alot of resources its feels like they punished the small people. You go rat in a moderate ship and your lucky to get 10mil ticks. For me to farm for a standard fleet ship that might cost 500-750mil would take me upwards of 75 HOURS grinding rats… How is this fun or how does this promote a positive economy. Please stop forcing us to do content we don’t wanna do. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2020, 10:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-update/277014/1372 "2020-12-04T22:24:21Z")
> [@Brigog\_Evingod](#): > > 10mil ticks. For me to farm for a standard fleet ship that might cost 500-750mil would take me upwards of 75 HOURS grinding rats… How is this fun or how does this promote a positive economy Can’t you fly cheaper support ships instead? Are you making 10m ticks BEFORE the ESS takes a portion of it, or AFTER? If it’s BEFORE, then you need better skills and/or better ratting ship fit. If it’s AFTER, then just… wait a bit? ESS will autopay you out after 2 hours. And finally, it’s not supposed to “promote a positive economy”, so I don’t even know where you came up with that nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Brigog\_Evingod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brigog_evingod/32/244520_2.png) [@Brigog\_Evingod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brigog_Evingod)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2020, 10:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-update/277014/1373 "2020-12-04T22:28:24Z")
> [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > Can’t you fly cheaper support ships instead? > > Are you making 10m ticks BEFORE the ESS takes a portion of it, or AFTER? > If it’s BEFORE, then you need better skills and/or better ratting ship fit. > If it’s AFTER, then just… wait a bit? ESS will autopay you out after 2 hours. > > And finally, it’s not supposed to “promote a positive economy”, so I don’t even know where you came up with that nonsense. I can fly cheaper ships but why should I have to fly cheaper ships just because CCP nurfed the hell outta ratting? Ratting was fine before and provided a decent source of income for my pvp activates. Now its garbage. We train for a long time in order to have access to fly better ships. No one wants to hear you troll by saying fly cheaper stuff. 500mil for a ship isnt alot but if your main source of income is ratting then now its a problem. Eve isnt a game you can quickly change from ratting to mining without training for a long time or lot of cash. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2020, 10:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-update/277014/1374 "2020-12-04T22:32:44Z")
> [@Brigog\_Evingod](#): > > why should I have to fly cheaper ships just because CCP nurfed the hell outta ratting? But they didn’t nerf it? How is the ESS nerfing the isk you get from the rats? Are you talking about the Dynamic Bounty System? Which actually BUFFED the amount of isk that NPC rats gave you with an equilibrium value of 135% more isk. > [@Brigog\_Evingod](#): > > 500mil for a ship isnt alot but if your main source of income is ratting then now its a problem. You’re self imposing some kind of requirement on yourself and then claiming it’s a problem (despite the fact that the ESS doesn’t actually reduce the amount of ISK you get at the end of the day). I guess some kids just want to play victim and can’t be helped. ---
**Author:** ![Brigog\_Evingod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brigog_evingod/32/244520_2.png) [@Brigog\_Evingod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brigog_Evingod)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2020, 10:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-update/277014/1375 "2020-12-04T22:35:00Z")
Wrong again, its more isk if you take the isk from the ESS but in doing so you lose the bonus. Also, if multiple people are ratting in the same system… you fuk them by taking the isk from the ESS. ---
**Author:** ![Makshima\_Shogo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makshima_shogo/32/247769_2.png) [@Makshima\_Shogo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Makshima_Shogo)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 8:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-update/277014/1376 "2020-12-05T08:13:00Z")
10mil ticks so 30mil/hour? You can litterally do anything else in eve for more, the standard isk/h is about 100 if your not getting near that try something else. If you like anoms then I would suggest solo c3 its about 180/h with a praxis ---
**Author:** ![Shadalana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shadalana/32/207845_2.png) [@Shadalana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shadalana)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 8:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-update/277014/1377 "2020-12-05T08:13:58Z")
> [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > But they didn’t nerf it? > How is the ESS nerfing the isk you get from the rats? > > Are you talking about the Dynamic Bounty System? Which actually BUFFED the amount of isk that NPC rats gave you with an equilibrium value of 135% more isk. they did, they tried to reduce the impact with the last change, but in the end it is a nerf ---
**Author:** ![crook\_profits](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/crook_profits/32/194747_2.png) [@crook\_profits](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/crook_profits)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 8:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-update/277014/1378 "2020-12-05T20:10:31Z")
seems eve is dying, already took 6 off my 10 acounts down, maybe after 10 years playing eve it’s time to take a break from the game and see how dual universe. Lots of former eve players already there. ---
**Author:** ![Bob\_der\_Blob](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bob_der_blob/32/244004_2.png) [@Bob\_der\_Blob](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bob_der_Blob)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2020, 10:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-update/277014/1379 "2020-12-06T10:01:57Z")
yeah seen some sectors with 10+bots grinding down the modifier to 30% ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2020, 1:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-update/277014/1380 "2020-12-06T13:10:51Z")
> [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > But they didn’t nerf it? > How is the ESS nerfing the isk you get from the rats? > > Are you talking about the Dynamic Bounty System? Which actually BUFFED the amount of isk that NPC rats gave you with an equilibrium value of 135% more isk. Your own alliance doesn’t have anywhere near %135 in their systems. > [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > You’re self imposing some kind of requirement on yourself and then claiming it’s a problem (despite the fact that the ESS doesn’t actually reduce the amount of ISK you get at the end of the day). > > I guess some kids just want to play victim and can’t be helped If you bothered to look in an ESS you would see there is a portion of ISK locked away in some BS TBD vault mechanic. ---
**Author:** ![bluechimera](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bluechimera/32/374467_2.png) [@bluechimera](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/bluechimera)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 5:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-update/277014/1381 "2020-12-07T05:19:50Z")
And so I conducted an experiment, we have not been engaged in rating in the system for more than a week, the military level has dropped to level 2, and the percentage of payments is only 75 percent, this is ridiculous. As the saying goes, we continue to play other games until the CCP releases the grass they smoke there or something else they sit on there. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 5:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-update/277014/1382 "2020-12-07T05:21:50Z")
> [@bluechimera](#): > > we have not been engaged in rating in the system for more than a week, the military level has dropped to level 2, and the percentage of payments is only 75 percent You guys must have been some hardcore renter garbage that do nothing in your system but krab all day for this to happen, especially after CCP both raised the equilibrium percentage from 115% to 135% **AND** increased the rate of recovery for the DBS. > [@bluechimera](#): > > we continue to play other games Please stay there, we don’t need garbage like you here. ---
**Author:** ![Inxentas\_Ultramar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/inxentas_ultramar/32/385922_2.png) [@Inxentas\_Ultramar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Inxentas_Ultramar)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 7:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-update/277014/1383 "2020-12-07T07:17:48Z")
On the flipside, NOT having your ESS stolen all the time but still dealing with the mineral nerf… has still led me to krab more and PVP less. The kind of PVP I enjoy most isn’t eligible for SRP. I don’t mind the change all too much, I’ve had some good kills thanks to the introduction of the ESS. But in the end, I’m still spending more of my TIME ratting for ISK. As a millennial I’ve some experience with things staying unavailable due to the prices increasing harder then my income does. Let’s just say it doesn’t lead to taking more risks, but hoarding wealth. Especially when scarcity is 100% artificial and aimed to change your behavior. ---
**Author:** ![bluechimera](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bluechimera/32/374467_2.png) [@bluechimera](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/bluechimera)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 8:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-update/277014/1384 "2020-12-07T08:57:49Z")
I did not understand that the madhouse was given the Internet or the doctors did not close the office with the computer. ---
**Author:** ![Makshima\_Shogo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makshima_shogo/32/247769_2.png) [@Makshima\_Shogo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Makshima_Shogo)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 7:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-update/277014/1385 "2020-12-07T19:41:55Z")
I heard you can increase that % by undocking when people come to fight. ---
**Author:** ![Hamoud\_Hibra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hamoud_hibra/32/236072_2.png) [@Hamoud\_Hibra](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hamoud_Hibra)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 10:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-update/277014/1386 "2020-12-07T22:31:24Z")
We do undock, they run away. because they are as risk adverse as everyone else and just want to steal undefended stuff, they are not “Elite PvP’ers after a Good Fights”. ---
**Author:** ![Erbium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/erbium/32/241824_2.png) [@Erbium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Erbium)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 11:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-update/277014/1387 "2020-12-07T23:56:14Z")
Those nerfs to ESS wont change anything. It must be removed. CCP has no idea what they are doing. ---
**Author:** ![Pikeys-CEO](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pikeys-ceo/32/401727_2.png) [@Pikeys-CEO](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pikeys-CEO)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2020, 12:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-update/277014/1388 "2020-12-08T00:33:40Z")
Very true. I liked the idea of system. The idea of steeling bounty’s . I always said the way to increase conflict is to increase flash points where the result could be to spoil someones day. portion of bounty payout going into a bank which can be stolen is perfect. (only now alts are steeling it). but the BRM is dumb. We’re back to the days of trying to fit whole alliances into a few good systems, which are then hit with the BRM and before long the systems are completely empty. ---
**Author:** ![bluechimera](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bluechimera/32/374467_2.png) [@bluechimera](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/bluechimera)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2020, 6:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-update/277014/1389 "2020-12-08T06:15:18Z")
As soon as we undock, they either run away or an invisible cloak, and disappear along the jump strings. This has happened more than once or twice, everyone wants an easy PVP and easy money. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2020, 6:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-update/277014/1390 "2020-12-08T06:18:26Z")
> [@bluechimera](#): > > As soon as we undock, they either run away or an invisible cloak, and disappear along the jump strings. Then you only other alternative is to make sure you farm less than 500m isk per 25 hours, because that’s the threshold where the Dynamic Bounty System will drop. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-update/277014.md?page=61) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encounter-surveillance-system-update/277014.md?page=63)