# Encouraging Highsec Player Conflict and Interaction **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [June 19, 2020, 5:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encouraging-highsec-player-conflict-and-interaction/250111 "2020-06-19T17:28:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Alterus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alterus/32/213825_2.png) [@Alterus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alterus)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 10:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encouraging-highsec-player-conflict-and-interaction/250111/61 "2020-07-08T22:33:08Z")
Stop and think for a moment. Imagine that a group of players decided they don’t like the way you played EVE and they lobbied CCP to make changes to the game so you couldn’t play that way anymore. Imagine that some of them attacked you personally for the way you chose to play the game and cheered when you left it. You want me to consider the miners’ perspective? Fair enough. But shouldn’t miners consider other perspectives as well? ---
**Author:** ![Brun\_Warbear](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brun_warbear/32/380353_2.png) [@Brun\_Warbear](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brun_Warbear)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 10:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encouraging-highsec-player-conflict-and-interaction/250111/62 "2020-07-08T22:36:03Z")
You’re describing this thread. Not to mention a vast generalisation. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 10:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encouraging-highsec-player-conflict-and-interaction/250111/63 "2020-07-08T22:36:21Z")
> [@Alterus](#): > > You want me to consider the miners’ perspective? Yes. I think we absolutely should consider the perspective of miners. That’s why mining needs to be difficult and dangerous, so that smart miners get better income. Easy AFK farming hurts legitimate miners more than anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Alterus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alterus/32/213825_2.png) [@Alterus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alterus)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 10:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encouraging-highsec-player-conflict-and-interaction/250111/64 "2020-07-08T22:48:03Z")
> [@Brun\_Warbear](#): > > You’re describing this thread. Not at all. Where do I say that miners should be driven from the game or that mining shouldn’t happen? > [@Brun\_Warbear](#): > > Not to mention a vast generalisation. Like the generalization that says PVP players are secretly out for easy kills and don’t care about the game? I’m not trying to recapitulate the old metagame fights here. We damaged the game with that kind of nonsense and need to move past it. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Yes. I think we absolutely should consider the perspective of miners. That’s why mining needs to be difficult and dangerous, so that smart miners get better income. Easy AFK farming hurts legitimate miners more than anyone else. Just so. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 11:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encouraging-highsec-player-conflict-and-interaction/250111/65 "2020-07-08T23:14:01Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Yes. I think we absolutely should consider the perspective of miners. That’s why mining needs to be difficult and dangerous, so that smart miners get better income. Easy AFK farming hurts legitimate miners more than anyone else. This is why mining from command ships needs to be removed. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2020, 12:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encouraging-highsec-player-conflict-and-interaction/250111/66 "2020-07-09T00:14:57Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Sure it is. There is a thing called make work in games, especially in MMO games where you force the player to engage in a tedious task for some thin justification. Forcing miners into cans or fleets is one of these tasks. Can flipping wasn’t killed by Ore Holds, miners just made a choice that they didn’t like jet canning any more and once they had a ship that gave them an OPTION they stopped doing it. You know, it’s like miners learnt and adapted. Exactly like they should. You are just wanting to force miners back to the days where they had no choices. ---
**Author:** ![Alterus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alterus/32/213825_2.png) [@Alterus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alterus)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2020, 4:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encouraging-highsec-player-conflict-and-interaction/250111/67 "2020-07-09T04:04:11Z")
Except that they all make the same choice, the non-interactive, afk choice. At some point, the health of the game needs to take precedence over what is most convenient for one group of players. I actually agree that mining as it is amounts to make-work. It should be made better in the same way that hacking was. However, we also need a solution that will improve interactivity in the short-term. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2020, 6:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encouraging-highsec-player-conflict-and-interaction/250111/68 "2020-07-09T06:09:15Z")
> [@Alterus](#): > > the non-interactive, afk choice. Nothing about ore holds says the person is AFK. Or not interacting with others. It just says that they chose to not jet can mine by having a larger ore hold. There is nothing unhealthy about that and pretending that there is… yeah… That just says you want victims at all costs. > [@Alterus](#): > > It should be made better in the same way that hacking was. The big difference here is that hacking was not 99% of the time doing exploration. You hack 3-4 cans a site, then you scan a new site which may also involve travel. The hack is the smallest portion of time usually, finding the site is the large portion. Mining however, you spend the time actually mining, not finding a mining site and then crunching the entire field in 30 seconds. Which means that having to play a minigame to mine means you are constantly playing the minigame, which actually disconnects you from the main game of EVE even more than any kind of sitting there mining the current way does, There has been no proposed change to mining that doesn’t cause that effect (& also cause RSI by the constant minigaming) ---
**Author:** ![Alterus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alterus/32/213825_2.png) [@Alterus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alterus)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2020, 3:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encouraging-highsec-player-conflict-and-interaction/250111/69 "2020-07-09T15:43:25Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Nothing about ore holds says the person is AFK. Or not interacting with others. It just says that they chose to not jet can mine by having a larger ore hold. Which removes all chance of unscripted interaction with other players and makes that person’s chosen activity virtually immune from such interaction. > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > There is nothing unhealthy about that and pretending that there is… yeah… That just says you want victims at all costs. Another ad hominem. What I want is interesting gameplay for all concerned. I want every load of ore to feel meaningful to a miner because they successfully out thought or out played someone else. That isn’t being a “victim”, that’s playing EVE. > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Mining however, you spend the time actually mining, not finding a mining site and then crunching the entire field in 30 seconds. Which means that having to play a minigame to mine means you are constantly playing the minigame, which actually disconnects you from the main game of EVE even more than any kind of sitting there mining the current way does, > > There has been no proposed change to mining that doesn’t cause that effect (& also cause RSI by the constant minigaming) I meant that it should move from a timer-based activity to a gamplay-based one. The distribution of gameplay in mining could be anything CCP wants; they could switch entirely over to ore anomalies, make the extraction process faster while introducing some new gameplay element like asteroid surveying to make up the lost time, etc. The only requirement is that the overall rate of production of minerals be the same as it is now. I understand the reluctance to touch mining, since it’s fundamental to the economy, but having a timer-based activity in the game so SP-intensive that it amounts to a character’s whole career just isn’t sustainable in 2020. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2020, 3:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encouraging-highsec-player-conflict-and-interaction/250111/70 "2020-07-09T15:52:46Z")
> [@Alterus](#): > > Reduce barge ore bays to a capacity of not more than one cycle. So when I switch from a gas drill to an ice drill the hold gets dynamically readjusted? Think before you type. ---
**Author:** ![Albert\_Spear](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/albert_spear/32/82975_2.png) [@Albert\_Spear](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Albert_Spear)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2020, 4:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encouraging-highsec-player-conflict-and-interaction/250111/71 "2020-07-09T16:21:49Z")
Sorry, you completely take away my play style when you remove the ore holds, I am a solo miner, who mines to unwind after a hard day at work. I move from system to system with my mining ship for ore or ice I want. Jet cans stay in one place, I don’t constantly orbiting what I mine. If you take the ore hold completely away I have to move a hauler into system. Then the mining ship. Then I need to go mine and do it as a sitting duck - which means no more lowest mining for me. Then I have to move the ore every cycle to the jet can - and if I put a drone or two out to catch a far way 'roid I may end up missing that cycle of the miners. No sir, this is not what I want at all. I don’t bot, and I don’t AFK, I don’t have Alphas to do stuff for me. I am single toon who enjoys the relaxation and I subscribe to EVE not Plex and have since 2012. Eve is about relaxation for me, I don’t need conflict, I need relaxation and friendship. So from my POV 2 thumbs down on this. ---
**Author:** ![Alterus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alterus/32/213825_2.png) [@Alterus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alterus)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2020, 11:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encouraging-highsec-player-conflict-and-interaction/250111/72 "2020-07-09T23:06:42Z")
🙄 It’s a video game. The volumes of ice, ore, and gas aren’t fixed, and neither are the cycle yields or quantities needed for refining. ---
**Author:** ![Alterus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alterus/32/213825_2.png) [@Alterus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alterus)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2020, 11:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encouraging-highsec-player-conflict-and-interaction/250111/73 "2020-07-09T23:15:29Z")
What’s wrong with mining in a fleet with your friends? I see where you’re coming from, but keep in mind that other playstyles have already been nerfed or outright removed to facilitate yours. ---
**Author:** ![Albert\_Spear](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/albert_spear/32/82975_2.png) [@Albert\_Spear](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Albert_Spear)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2020, 5:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encouraging-highsec-player-conflict-and-interaction/250111/74 "2020-07-11T17:30:19Z")
Nerf’ed? done away with to allow me to mine, watching my back the whole time? Hee hee, haw haw…Having been here for many years, I can tell you that mining has always been the loser in high sec when it comes to nerfs. Just recently to create more conflict many armor and shield modules were nerfed - bigger impact on miners, than anyone else. But hey, lets not let the facts get in the way of a great rant right? 😀 ---
**Author:** ![Alterus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alterus/32/213825_2.png) [@Alterus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alterus)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2020, 6:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encouraging-highsec-player-conflict-and-interaction/250111/75 "2020-07-11T18:15:16Z")
Canflipping, ore theft, wardecs- all of them have been made irrelevant or outright removed. How is it a “rant” to point that out? ---
**Author:** ![Albert\_Spear](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/albert_spear/32/82975_2.png) [@Albert\_Spear](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Albert_Spear)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2020, 11:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encouraging-highsec-player-conflict-and-interaction/250111/76 "2020-07-11T23:54:20Z")
Wardec still exist. I have used the same tactic since I started on Eve, take a vacation until it is over. Go ahead and bring back can flipping, I will go back to station containers in space. You wreck my ship you may get my ore. No playstyles disappeared, only tactics. Gankers are still gankers. They still drive more new players away from the game than anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Umichi\_Onichi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/umichi_onichi/32/237754_2.png) [@Umichi\_Onichi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Umichi_Onichi)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 12:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encouraging-highsec-player-conflict-and-interaction/250111/77 "2020-07-12T00:58:11Z")
Or you could try out the new invasion content. Shits GG and I’m sure big conflict will come up when players start building infrastructure ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 3:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encouraging-highsec-player-conflict-and-interaction/250111/78 "2020-07-12T15:57:42Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > That’s why mining needs to be difficult and dangerous, so that smart miners get better income. As a miner i endorse this message. > [@Albert\_Spear](#): > > Having been here for many years, I can tell you that mining has always been the loser in high sec when it comes to nerfs. This is simply not true. Think about it. ---
**Author:** ![CowRocket\_Void](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cowrocket_void/32/189525_2.png) [@CowRocket\_Void](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CowRocket_Void)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 4:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encouraging-highsec-player-conflict-and-interaction/250111/79 "2020-07-12T16:17:38Z")
> [@Albert\_Spear](#): > > But hey, lets not let the facts get in the way of a great rant right? _Your facts_ or actual facts? Every mining “nerf” as netted me more isk/hr per ship. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2020, 4:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/encouraging-highsec-player-conflict-and-interaction/250111/80 "2020-10-10T16:17:42Z")
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