# Ending the gap between Cap and Subcap and a revision of ship size progression **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [October 31, 2018, 10:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ending-the-gap-between-cap-and-subcap-and-a-revision-of-ship-size-progression/117284 "2018-10-31T22:40:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/beast_of_revelations/32/413187_2.png) [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Beast_of_Revelations)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2018, 8:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ending-the-gap-between-cap-and-subcap-and-a-revision-of-ship-size-progression/117284/21 "2018-11-03T20:32:25Z")
> [@Colinde\_s](#): > > Yet you are defending the notion not to restore capitals to be tools, primarily, for Null sec. Correct. I don’t want any particular group (null) to get exclusive ‘tools’ or goodies or ships or anything else. I think everything should be available to everybody. That’s why I was against removing capships from highsec. It was stupid, and short-sighted, and it makes sure that those who spend their entire lives in highsec can never use one. > [@](#): > > I’m sorry if the things that would need to be changed stops you from solo killing in low sec with capitals. I’m sorry if keeping things the same ensures that you keep on crying about how you got killed by a capship in lowsec. ---
**Author:** ![Alessa\_Khan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alessa_khan/32/105129_2.png) [@Alessa\_Khan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alessa_Khan)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2018, 11:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ending-the-gap-between-cap-and-subcap-and-a-revision-of-ship-size-progression/117284/22 "2018-11-03T23:18:11Z")
proposal is up: > [@\[Proposal\] adjusting ship stats globally and some changes to capital ships and modules](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-adjusting-ship-stats-globally-and-some-changes-to-capital-ships-and-modules/118032): > > this proposal roots out from a previous thread written in the Features and Ideas section: Objectives of the Proposal: standarize the stat growth of all ships in the game to follow a proper curve. make some changes the capital modules in order to ensure clear weaknesses and limits open the way for ships to shine not only due to stat to size differences or tech lvls but also due to additional utility options on each size in general as complement to class utility. end the complaints a… ---
**Author:** ![Sebs\_Pride](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sebs_pride/32/181192_2.png) [@Sebs\_Pride](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sebs_Pride)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 4:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ending-the-gap-between-cap-and-subcap-and-a-revision-of-ship-size-progression/117284/23 "2018-11-05T16:51:11Z")
Arguements could be brought up about caps being nul sec only, as its a tool made in nul and an inccentive to be in nul. As in nul you have to fight tooth and nail to gain the privilage to call nul your home, along with all the troubles of keeping nul. Which is one of the strongest arguements I have is that people are constantly complaining giant group efforts are getting ahead (goons is a good example) As they are getting rich for their efforts, and people feel as a solo pilot with zero interaction with other people, and that CCP should PUNISH people who work together. As if people working together to make obtaining a goal easier is unfair for the solo pilot, which is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Colinde\_s](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/colinde_s/32/419040_2.png) [@Colinde\_s](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Colinde_s)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 1:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ending-the-gap-between-cap-and-subcap-and-a-revision-of-ship-size-progression/117284/24 "2018-11-06T13:42:10Z")
First of I need to halt your Trolling: > [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > I’m sorry if keeping things the same ensures that you keep on crying about how you got killed by a capship in lowsec. Look. I’m NOT spending hours on this end for my own sake. I’m doing this because I see wide-spread fatigue from many different types of players that want to engage in Low-sec. PVE/PVP/Indy, doesn’t matter. I’f I did this purely for my own sake, I would have quit the game a long time ago. Now that we are on the same page: > [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > I don’t want any particular group (null) to get exclusive ‘tools’ or goodies or ships or anything else. I think everything should be available to everybody. So… As @Sebs_Pride said, capitals should be _the_ incentive to be in Null. The risk/reward is much greater, hence Null gets the most powerful ships in the game to make a compelling incentive to be and fight for SOV. I have always heard CCP praise risk/reward principles. That’s why Abyssal space is a risky proposition, with potential great rewards. So I can only assume that risk vs reward is still a priority for CCP. Deploying a Titan to kill a few cruisers is not in line with that principle. Especially when the region it was done in, is under a full capital fleet umbrella by the same gankers. You need a Null sec scale economy and force to take them on to evict them. In the state capitals (supers especialy) are in now, they are Null sec ships, that are out of place in Lowsec, because of the difficulty for non-null sec groups to amass the infrastructure to take them on. It is frankly speaking prohibitory. ---
**Author:** ![Colinde\_s](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/colinde_s/32/419040_2.png) [@Colinde\_s](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Colinde_s)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 1:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ending-the-gap-between-cap-and-subcap-and-a-revision-of-ship-size-progression/117284/25 "2018-11-06T13:49:40Z")
I find your suggestion interesting. I am a little worried what such a turnover in mechanics will bring in the long run. Will CCP make a super-super-capital class later? 60km long ships? Will the skills be adjusted accordingly? I mean, do you still need to spend years of training to get into the new balanced capitals for a marginal increase in fighting power? How will these changes affect the meta if it turns out it ruins the sense of scale with capitals? With this i mean, since capitals are the closest thing to an “end-game” New Eden has. If they are watered down, will there still be incentive to train into it, if skills and cost of manufacture are not dropped sufficiently for both Battleships and Capitals. Anywho. All this is something I trust the Dev’s to take into account. Good luck with the suggestion from here. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2019, 1:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ending-the-gap-between-cap-and-subcap-and-a-revision-of-ship-size-progression/117284/26 "2019-02-04T13:49:44Z")
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