# Enough is enough: a newplayer feedback about income drop from CCP latest patchs **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [November 23, 2020, 10:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329 "2020-11-23T10:26:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 4:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329/22 "2020-11-23T16:40:42Z")
> [@Brewlar\_Kuvakei](#): > > I skimmed & read no one flys battleships, Battleships still have their place, but they’re nowhere near as prevalent as a doctrine as they used to be. > despite in wwb2 where Ravens were welping & as stated the welpers could not care as BS’s cost peanuts owing to mineral devaluation & insurance. In all likelihood those ships were provided and replaced by alliance programs; welping ships is carefree when someone else is paying for them. ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 4:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329/23 "2020-11-23T16:43:06Z")
> [@Brewlar\_Kuvakei](#): > > I stopped reading when you said a fitted Nightmare cost 90m isk at any point. I never said a Nightmare cost 90M. I said “battleships cost 90M”. The “stop writing bovine waste” goes right back. In 2011, I flew 90M Abaddons hulls in Period Basis and Delve and had a blast. Then CCP came around and increased the mineral composition to build them. BS worth peanuts. 😂 > [@Brewlar\_Kuvakei](#): > > despite in wwb2 where Ravens were welping & as stated the welpers could not care as BS’s cost peanuts owing to mineral devaluation & insurance. A singular event used to talk about years of lack of battleship fleets and people constantly complaining that bomb runs are too oppressive, so oppressive indeed that CCP even had to nerf bombers years ago. With all due respect, you are clueless. And in being so, you are the perfect player for whatever CCP is doing. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 5:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329/24 "2020-11-23T17:39:58Z")
> [@Malaghen](#): > > It won’t push new players like me to buy plex with real life money. I’m already paying for an Omega account, I WILL NOT spend another 100$ in plex If you think this is CCP’s point with the changes, you really don’t know what you’re talking about. If you hate it so much, go take a break. CCP isn’t going to stop their changes until they fix the ecosystem of the game overall to a level that is acceptable for the health and longevity of the game. Come back when this temporary period of scarcity is over. ---
**Author:** ![Tharvus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tharvus/32/246994_2.png) [@Tharvus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tharvus)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 5:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329/25 "2020-11-23T17:49:52Z")
> [@Malaghen](#): > > semi afk mining Bye… ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 5:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329/26 "2020-11-23T17:59:02Z")
> [@Malaghen](#): > > My dreams of wars seems farer than before, as I don’t see myself farming for 10 hours to replace a lost ship, whereas I could have replaced it in 3 hours before (which was a ok price to pay for me). This is an issue indeed and a result of the income drop. However, this shouldn’t let you stop joining wars, if your corporation is any good you wouldn’t be the only newbie struggling with this income drop and your doctrines should have cheaper meta options to fly, or alternative cheaper ships for newbies that can join the fleets, such as EWAR or tackle. I remember it can be a struggle to make ISK to join your first fleets, and I can imagine that doing so in a time like this when CCP is trying to fix the economy can be demotivating. Don’t let it demotivate you though and don’t think that ‘not enough ISK to join fleets’ is an issue caused only by the income drop; every newbie that ever wanted to join fleets with self-earned ISK has gone through this step. Check your corp doctrines for cheaper ships that are more easily replaced. I personally love the Maulus. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 6:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329/27 "2020-11-23T18:03:53Z")
You could go to lowsec and fight over the resources themselves. There is no need to grind/farm isk so that you can then play the wargame inside the sandbox game. ---
**Author:** ![Obed\_Marshh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/obed_marshh/32/459118_2.png) [@Obed\_Marshh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Obed_Marshh)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 10:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329/28 "2020-11-23T22:19:32Z")
> [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > Come back when this temporary period of scarcity is over. That’s my plan. I’m not sure if I’m happy or unhappy with the changes. I’m still subbed and still training skills. I’m waiting for the big changes to stop for a while. I want to play when things are more stable than they are now. ---
**Author:** ![Ayx\_Grey](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ayx_grey/32/234602_2.png) [@Ayx\_Grey](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ayx_Grey)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 1:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329/29 "2020-11-24T01:14:27Z")
I’m old enough to remember when EVE was a sandbox. ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 1:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329/30 "2020-11-24T01:23:31Z")
> [@Xeux](#): > > You could go to lowsec and fight over the resources themselves. There is no need to grind/farm isk so that you can then play the wargame inside the sandbox game. omg this girl is a genius 👏 👏 👏 ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 3:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329/31 "2020-11-24T03:18:33Z")
If it talks like a cash cow. Acts like a cash cow. It’s probably a cash cow. /Snide remark @OP There are groups in null that will replace your losses at no cost. You can actually make money losing ships. It’s known as an Ship Replacement Program (SRP). If that’s what you want to do, fight big wars with big grouos, join an outfit that details it’s SRP. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 4:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329/32 "2020-11-24T04:04:33Z")
> [@Malaghen](#): > > in order to meet my objective, which was extremely simple: Being able to take part on these big null sec battles that make this game so special (yes, current wars make good advertising for this game). And when I mean taking part in wars, I mean playing a role, not being just a moving target with a crap ship, a crap fitting and crap skills that can barely do something. I understand that every help is important, but I just don’t want to be a space war tourist. > [@Malaghen](#): > > as wars implies loosing ships and replace them > [@Malaghen](#): > > My dreams of wars seems farer than before, as I don’t see myself farming for 10 hours to replace a lost ship, whereas I could have replaced it in 3 hours before (which was a ok price to pay for me). You’re under the rookie misconception (which is fine, because you’re a rookie, so no one’s judging) that the way you play this game is by grinding money in PvE in order to fund your losses in PvP. That is _absolutely incorrect_. You need to come to the realization that the wars you speak of (or most PvP in general) are fought for the goal of either direct profit, or for securing opportunities for increased wealth generation that will exceed the resources that you expend toward fighting. The payoff can be instant (e.g. loot) or long-term (e.g. access to space with lucrative sites to farm), but the goal should _always_ be a payoff. If someone asks/tells you to fight while putting your own resources on the line, and there’s no mention of any kind of compensation, either instant or delayed/contingent upon success, then they’re either a mouth-breathing “grind iskies to lose them in pvp lol” simp, or you’re being chumped by someone trying to take advantage of you. _Good_ war-fighting outfits will straight-up comp you for your losses via ship replacement programs, for example. > [@Malaghen](#): > > Therefore I needed to make quite a lot of isk to purchase skill injectors as my skill plan indicates a wooping 150 days of training time (I’m already paying an Omega account with $$, no way to purchase plex as well: I’m happy to contribute to CCP success, but I’m not a cash cow, thank you). > [@Malaghen](#): > > It won’t push new players like me to buy plex with real life money. I’m already paying for an Omega account, I WILL NOT spend another 100$ in plex, just to be able to fly ships properly. Injectors are on you. You shouldn’t feel obligated to take such shortcuts as a new player. Most of the vets you keep referencing sure as heck didn’t. But even if you insist on a shortcut, then paying for it (if you can afford to) shouldn’t be an issue. Whether you’re subscribing, or using injectors, the net effect is still paying for SP. > [@Malaghen](#): > > This leads to my current post: why should I bother continue playing? I’ve made dozens of hours of research for information, advises, guides etc, I spent time to skill toward new ways of making income, try new content etc, but as soon as I get to this point, income nerf happen and make this skill plan almost useless, and felt totally unrewarded for my efforts. I was ok to switch to plan B, then to plan C, but I’m getting bored. Why would I bother continue adapting myself to the game if I’m getting nerfed as soon as I reach a milestone? Because at some point you’ll realize that you’ve adapted to pretty much everything that the game can throw at you. For example, if you train for mining today, and then it gets nerfed, forcing you to train for something else, then when mining becomes good again, it’s not like you’ll have to train for it a _second_ time. You’ll be able to just say “hey, I can already do this!” and grab your barge and go. Outside of training for capital ships, you should reach this point within three years. I recommend keeping combat and industrial skills on separate characters to aid in this regard. > [@Malaghen](#): > > I don’t understand why, as a new player, I should be much much more penalized than player who started the game 6 months before me. I don’t understand why as I’m paying ships 50% more than people who already had a full hangar for far less income compared to what they used to do, whereas at the same time, players who had billions of isk in bank were able to make dozens of billions with the inflation that just occurred with these nerfs (buying tons of ships at the announce of patch, and selling them for a very nice profit. > [@Malaghen](#): > > The only thing that will happen is players like me quitting the game, because it is now obvious that it will take months of unenjoyable grind to just do the same things other players were able to do more casually a few months ago. Don’t forget that these changes affect _everyone_. It’s not like CCP nerfs something, and then everyone makes out like a bandit while pointing and laughing at you and your pants full of holes. If minerals become more expensive, _everyone_ has to pay more for ships. If abyssal drop rates change, _everyone_ will be making the same amount of money by running them on average. And you can’t be angry that vets are in a better position than you. After all, they were _here_, while you weren’t. Just like you, they also had to deal with adversity, and were at a disadvantage compared to even _older_ players than they were. If you keep playing, some day you’ll _also_ be a vet, and you’ll find that you’re better equipped for dealing with adversity than new players at that time. Complaining about vets being rich makes about as much sense as complaining that the person at work who’s been with the company for twenty years longer than you gets a bigger paycheck. ---
**Author:** ![Miranda\_Farron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/miranda_farron/32/250852_2.png) [@Miranda\_Farron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Miranda_Farron)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 1:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329/33 "2020-11-24T13:22:00Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Complaining about vets being rich makes about as much sense as complaining that the person at work who’s been with the company for twenty years longer than you gets a bigger paycheck. Yes but the person who’s been at the same job as you for 20 years doesn’t get 20 trillion dollars a year while you get 20 thousand dollars. They get a bit more than you do. The EVE economy is a repuslively bloated sick thing with Jabba the Hut slugs wallowing on top of Smaugs treasure pile. It’s all a little bit out of control and insane nowadays. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 1:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329/34 "2020-11-24T13:27:03Z")
CCP should ask the CSM if they think it is a problem. /s ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 1:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329/35 "2020-11-24T13:28:54Z")
But making the average income 20 Trillion wont help the economy. Making it 20000 will But if you have a solution that makes this happen without basically removing it from their wallets (and that _would_ be economic suicide for CCP’s wallet) Im sure theyd like to hear it. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 1:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329/36 "2020-11-24T13:36:48Z")
> [@Miranda\_Farron](#): > > > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > > > Complaining about vets being rich makes about as much sense as complaining that the person at work who’s been with the company for twenty years longer than you gets a bigger paycheck. > > Yes but the person who’s been at the same job as you for 20 years doesn’t get 20 trillion dollars a year while you get 20 thousand dollars. They get a bit more than you do. > > The EVE economy is a repuslively bloated sick thing with Jabba the Hut slugs wallowing on top of Smaugs treasure pile. It’s all a little bit out of control and insane nowadays. Progression in a video game happens at a different rate compared to progression in real life…who would have thought? ---
**Author:** ![Miranda\_Farron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/miranda_farron/32/250852_2.png) [@Miranda\_Farron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Miranda_Farron)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 1:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329/37 "2020-11-24T13:43:11Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > But making the average income 20 Trillion wont help the economy. > > Making it 20000 will Oh indeed, hope you didn’t think I was saying the opposite. _This_ is what I was saying. We need to return to the days when ISK meant something in denominations under billions / trillions, when people didn’t feel so entitled to be able to wipe their bum with trillion ISK notes. > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > But if you have a solution that makes this happen without basically removing it from their wallets (and that _would_ be economic suicide for CCP’s wallet) Im sure theyd like to hear it. No idea tbh. It’s been allowed to go on for far far too long until the bulk of the paying playerbase, cozy and snug in their ivory Keepstars, is eseentially able to hold CCP to ransom. We’ve all seen the almost hysterical reactions from people who have seen even a slight loss in their income. Nooooooo, I’ve only earned 3 trillion this second instead of 5 /hate CCP I think CCP are subtly trying to remove it from their wallets with the recent updates (ESS / Trigs / Minerals etc). I think they’re trying to do it without the Jabbas noticing. As someone who had a break and came back (I won EVE … once) it’s sadly, painfully apparently how much worse, how much of a bloated, out of control monster the EVE economy has become. It’s ISK Online. The ISK obsession is insane to me, and rather sad. ---
**Author:** ![Miranda\_Farron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/miranda_farron/32/250852_2.png) [@Miranda\_Farron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Miranda_Farron)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 1:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329/38 "2020-11-24T13:51:54Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Progression in a video game happens at a different rate compared to progression in real life…who would have thought? So I completely invaliated _your_ point using real life comparisons … and your response is to weakly fall back on _‘acceptable because game’_ - really? Feeble. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 2:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329/39 "2020-11-24T14:26:12Z")
Not really. The game has been out almost two decades. In that amount of time, you can go from an entry-level office position to a manager/executive, and you can go from an Ibis-flying noob to a keepstar-owning trillionaire in EVE. Both things are reasonably achievable within this amount of time; the only differing aspect is the _scope_ of the gains made. You said: > [@Miranda\_Farron](#): > > Yes but the person who’s been at the same job as you for 20 years doesn’t get 20 trillion dollars a year while you get 20 thousand dollars. They get a bit more than you do. What, are you upset that EVE vets don’t make only _slightly_ more than the 500,000 ISK an hour that day-old players make? Or are you too mathematically-inept to understand that earning potential grows at a completely different pace compared to real life, or what? ---
**Author:** ![Miranda\_Farron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/miranda_farron/32/250852_2.png) [@Miranda\_Farron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Miranda_Farron)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 2:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329/40 "2020-11-24T14:34:20Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > What, are you upset that EVE vets don’t make only _slightly_ more than the 500,000 ISK an hour that day-old players make? Or are you too mathematically-inept to understand that earning potential grows at a completely different pace compared to real life, or what? I stated my concerns already. If you didn’t understand them the first time around it’s you that is inept at understanding. I shouldn’t have to repeat myself. Aaah but then we have the quote system so I don’t have to. Phew. > [@Miranda\_Farron](#): > > The EVE economy is a repuslively bloated sick thing with Jabba the Hut slugs wallowing on top of Smaugs treasure pile. It’s all a little bit out of control and insane nowadays. There you go. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Or are you too mathematically-inept to understand that earning potential grows at a completely different pace compared to real life, or what? You introduced real world comparisons into the conversation and are now berating my ability to understand things based on how silly it is to introduce real world comparisons into the conversation … which I am not guilty of, but you are … lol … okay. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 2:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329/41 "2020-11-24T14:43:45Z")
> [@Malaghen](#): > > recent income nerfs from CCP are hitting too hard newer players like me You are new, so you can’t possibly have an informed opinion. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329.md?page=3)