# Enough is enough: a newplayer feedback about income drop from CCP latest patchs **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [November 23, 2020, 10:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329 "2020-11-23T10:26:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Zabini\_Blaise](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zabini_blaise/32/239372_2.png) [@Zabini\_Blaise](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zabini_Blaise)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 2:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329/42 "2020-11-24T14:50:04Z")
I read your post and regret the many sarcastic, dismissive and frankly offensive replies that litter what is a cogent, well articulated argument against recent changes to the game and how it has affected your experience of Eve. You’re clearly very resourceful and resilient. There are corps that can help you explore other avenues of isk making; you don’t need to take it all upon yourself. SRP and other resources should also lighten the impact on your in-game wallet. Happy to connect you if desired. Otherwise good luck in gaming and in life 👋🏻 ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 3:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329/43 "2020-11-24T15:08:28Z")
> [@Malaghen](#): > > I found myself more motivated to go deeper into the game mechanics > [@Malaghen](#): > > It took me about 15 days to be able to fly a mining barge for high sec mining. > [@Malaghen](#): > > mining was my first priority > [@Malaghen](#): > > I was able to semi afk mine 10 hours a day, I suggest you uninstall the game. CCP does not owe you a “fair” income for AFK mining. ---
**Author:** ![Miranda\_Farron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/miranda_farron/32/250852_2.png) [@Miranda\_Farron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Miranda_Farron)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 3:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329/44 "2020-11-24T15:11:04Z")
> [@Malaghen](#): > > 15 long days of patience EVE may not be for you. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 3:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329/45 "2020-11-24T15:27:38Z")
> [@Miranda\_Farron](#): > > I stated my concerns already. If you didn’t understand them the first time around it’s you that is inept at understanding. I shouldn’t have to repeat myself. > > Aaah but then we have the quote system so I don’t have to. > > Phew. > > > [@Miranda\_Farron](#): > > > > The EVE economy is a repuslively bloated sick thing with Jabba the Hut slugs wallowing on top of Smaugs treasure pile. It’s all a little bit out of control and insane nowadays. > > There you go. And the world is full of tottering boomers with deep pockets and fancy brunch habits, so what’s your point? They own the two houses (plus a summer getaway), drive gas-guzzling SUVs, and leave their sprinklers on even when it’s raining, while others (basically the millennials, or their EVE analogue of the month-old high-sec miner/mission-runner) will have to rent studio apartments their entire lives, and don’t have an official retirement age listed in their tax paperwork. You don’t like it? Well, tough ■■■■. Eat the hot dog over the sink and cry in the darkness because you’re poor, or grab a gun and shoot someone, whether it’s Ms. Gladys from down the street who earned a six-figure pension from her straight-out-of-college office manager job, or some EVE plutocrat who’s too busy counting his ISK to manually pilot his 20-billion freighter; the choice is _yours_, and it doesn’t truly _matter_. I think I understand what your issue is now. You’re railing against the 0.0001% because they own like half of all money in the world (real or EVE, once again, doesn’t matter), right? Well, that wealth is actually _meaningless_ - it’s not part of the market, and it doesn’t affect price indices for anything that matters to _you_. Just like Jeff Bezos doesn’t affect the price of McDonald’s Big Macs, so too do the EVE mega-rich not affect the prices of Drakes and Covetors. They don’t _engage_ in _these_ sections of the market. They play their _own_ game, one that doesn’t really touch _your_ life. They’re still assholes, of course, but if you took away their wealth, then Big Macs, Drakes, and Covetors wouldn’t actually cost any _less_. You know what _would_ affect your life, though? Raising the minimum wage. I _literally_ live in a place that went through that very thing; the minimum wage nearly doubled, and pauper goods shot up in price accordingly. So if you bump up rookie income in EVE, the same thing will happen: basic stuff will shoot up in price, and Drakes and Covetors will cost more. It’s not Jabba-the-Hutts who are your enemy. The enemy is _EVE’s_ boomers, or basically the players/botters grinding upper-mid-tier PvE content for 14 hours a day. _They’re_ the ones who make it difficult for new players to break through, and not the mega-rich who like to collect alliance tournament ships and T2 BPOs. ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 3:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329/46 "2020-11-24T15:29:47Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > And the world is full of tottering boomers with deep pockets and fancy brunch habits No. Just the US. ---
**Author:** ![Miranda\_Farron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/miranda_farron/32/250852_2.png) [@Miranda\_Farron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Miranda_Farron)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 3:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329/47 "2020-11-24T15:30:08Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > And the world is full of tottering boomers with deep pockets and fancy brunch habits, so what’s your point? They own the two houses (plus a summer getaway), drive gas-guzzling SUVs, and leave their sprinklers on even when it’s raining, while others (basically the millennials, or their EVE analogue of the month-old high-sec miner/mission-runner) will have to rent studio apartments their entire lives, and don’t have an official retirement age listed in their tax paperwork. Why are you obssessed with the real world? Especially when you said earlier … > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Or are you too mathematically-inept to understand that earning potential grows at a completely different pace compared to real life, or what? Are you confused? I’m talking about EVE. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 3:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329/48 "2020-11-24T15:33:25Z")
Dear OP, please check the market prices on minerals, or read the MER and have a look at the mineral index. Your mining future should be solid gold. It’s so blatantly obvious that even someone like me (who needed 11 years - not 15 long days - to be able to fly an exhumer - but still uses a cheap barge) is able to make a fat profit on the mineral market. Alas, I still hate to spend time mining and regret the training time to pretend to be afk mining but in reality am waiting for a silly noob ganker to try something funny (ye be warned now). Never lose faith in your own abilities until you finally run out of ISK and take to the forums for a good old-fashioned rant. P.S. Your claims that you are skilled well in this and that direction in a matter of three months, but still need 150 days for the remainder of the Magic 14 is just one indicator that you chose poorly. ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 3:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329/49 "2020-11-24T15:35:27Z")
~~What Magic 14?~~ [The Magic 14 - EVE University Wiki](https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/The_Magic_14) Ah. I see. Well, that’s kind of dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 3:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329/50 "2020-11-24T15:41:41Z")
You’re too fixated on hard numbers, and aren’t looking at the underlying point. You took issue with this bit: > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Complaining about vets being rich makes about as much sense as complaining that the person at work who’s been with the company for twenty years longer than you gets a bigger paycheck. By saying: > [@Miranda\_Farron](#): > > Yes but the person who’s been at the same job as you for 20 years doesn’t get 20 trillion dollars a year while you get 20 thousand dollars. They get a bit more than you do. > > The EVE economy is a repuslively bloated sick thing with Jabba the Hut slugs wallowing on top of Smaugs treasure pile. It’s all a little bit out of control and insane nowadays. The point is that the difference between working for some years in order to earn tens of thousands of dollars more is _effectively_ the same as playing EVE for some years to earn your trillions. The scope of the figures is vastly different, but the socioeconomic factors remain the same. You go from a “have-not” to a “have,” with all of the advantages that confers. Complaining about being a have-not when you’re new, whether in real life or EVE, is meaningless, because in time, you’re able to upgrade your status, _by becoming part of the problem,_ as so many generations have done before you. ---
**Author:** ![Lillith\_Sakata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lillith_sakata/32/255593_2.png) [@Lillith\_Sakata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lillith_Sakata)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 1:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329/51 "2020-11-25T01:54:39Z")
First of, typed on a phone. DYAC is likely to be common. Cool story dude. Let me give you a little bit of a reality check. Before there was still injecting, we waited for skills to train. Period. Some times before that, if you did, you had to buy a clone yourself, or risk losing weeks, months, or YEARS of training time. Let’s not forget the skills to skill so you could skill your skills. Before Plex, you paid, or ■■■■■■ off. Someone still pays, so not much loss there. Also, before skill injectors, you learned to fly your ships with actual skill, before you even sat in it. You learned from experience flying the ships and progressed slowly up the very specialized skill trees we made. And payouts for activities are way better than we had it. If you’re this damned salty over buying SP, and still losing a ship you couldn’t replace, don’t spend more money. Learn the game. Suck less by learning more. Also, stop being a dumbass, doing the skunk work for your boss with mining and filament running. There are many ways to make ISK and fly. Learn to fly ships you can afford to lose, but still provide much needed service to a fleet. Ask any respected FC, and they’ll let you know that a really damned good tackler who can manually pilot, or a good hunter (d-scan and prober), can make or break a fleet. Find something you’re good at that you can afford, and don’t let people drive you into some mold that might not fit you; either by skill, enjoyment, or ability to make ISK. In Eve you can always make enough ISK to replace what is within your means, if you’re good at the activity you’re doing, and the people you’re with aren’t screwing you. ---
**Author:** ![Ghengis\_Tia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ghengis_tia/32/176767_2.png) [@Ghengis\_Tia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ghengis_Tia)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 2:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329/52 "2020-11-25T02:01:07Z")
CCP will get more money from me when they pry it out of my cold, dead, unsubscribed fingers… ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 2:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329/53 "2020-11-25T02:11:10Z")
my problem was the stupid trigs now that they are gone game is great again 10/10 ![emoji_2](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/e/4/e4446fc03da88485bad0712cd8ba90f7881fc378.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Tyrannee](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tyrannee/32/383673_2.png) [@Tyrannee](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tyrannee)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 2:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329/54 "2020-11-25T02:59:07Z")
I’ve played this game for over a decade and one of the things I liked best about it was how many different avenues there were to explore which would all take a LONG time to master. I hated the introduction of skill injectors, respecting Eve because it was one of the only games like this where time mattered. I didn’t join these big nullsec battles until this year, 12 years after I first joined. Before that I enjoyed the process of running missions and getting into steadily-larger ships, mining during slow times and had a pretty constant income stream. I don’t see how any of that has changed. Due to the mineral shortage, mining seems to be more profitable now. I lazy-boat an orca in hisec while I work during the week and clear around 500m of minerals, then run T5 abyssals when I want more active play and make 300m per hour. That pays for the ships to do fun stuff (and lose) in nullsec. For me, this was true before the recent changes and remains true now. ---
**Author:** ![Malaghen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/malaghen/32/288291_2.png) [@Malaghen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Malaghen)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 11:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329/55 "2020-11-25T11:38:18Z")
Dear all, I sincerely thank the people that spent time reading my post and made a constructive answer to it, whether agreeing or not with my position. The initial intention was more toward a debate on the game economy, but according to the majority of answers, I my expectations might have been too high. I won’t ask for closing the topic as people are free to debate, I just wanted to stress out the extremely limited impact of sarcasm on forums. People tend to forget bad things from the past and just remember the positive out of it, aka the famous vanilla flavor. But fact is that over the past years, you all played in an economical booming situation, were resources were plentiful, allowing you to develop steadily. I don’t. New players don’t. Of course, it doesn’t really matter for rookies that are just enjoying lvl1/2 mission running or spending 1h casually exploring this universe in doing a little bit of this and that. In this configuration, EvE is a fantastic sandbox with plenty of possibilities, I’m not denying that. It doesn’t seems to matter for most of you as well, as you seems to consider that a Rookie have to take the long way starting this game like you did and wait to be able to do something efficiently. But facts are we are not using the same way. I’m a developing player in a configuration where income dropped, and ships cost more, making my development even more difficult than yours. Everyone is happy when reaching a milestone they have set to themselves, but there is no sense of progression as well. I was proud when I made my first T2 Abyss run last month, I had unlocked another part of the game. I felt annoyed when I made my first T3 Abyss this month, and received the same net income than in T2 after filament price, but flying with a ship requiring more skillpoints, and more expensive modules for the same gameplay (as long as you’ve learned what to focus, basically all abyssal deadspace are the same, you’re then just limited by your possibilities of ship fitting really). And this is the whole point of this: I do not understand why I should be rewarded after 4 hours of activity the same amount people were rewarded with for 2 hours of time investment 2 years ago. I am very disappointed by a game whose developers prefers to annihilate parts of the game instead of curing the real diseases (Mineral bloats were caused by Rorqual dominance in nullsec, nothing more. Economic reports of 2019 and before show that perfectly). So whereas recent changes impact all players, with different proportion depending on their experience & existing assets. I don’t think that it will really “cure” the economy even in mid term plans. Figures are already showing that: ships prices are increasing not because mineral prices are increasing, but because many industrialists have given up (Oct 2020 economical report, slide 1). So yes, I’ll quit, my subscription will not be renewed next month. I’m not the one responsible for this bloating of the economy, I’m not the one that has profited of this bloating, but I think I’m in the typology of players that suffers the most from it. It was maybe not the best time to start the game after all. It won’t probably matter for CCP who launched the game in China with a bigger pool of players and will launch the game in Japan soon. Plex price is going up again so people will be more inclined to buy and resale them. All is well then. ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 12:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329/56 "2020-11-25T12:09:46Z")
I don’t get it, mining income is up, exploration income is almost same, DED sites are same, Abyss didn’t exist when I was a new player, mission income is same, Povchen is a new low skill income source. PI is down, and industry recalibrating, but all in all low skill income sources are either stable or up. I never did or even miss classic ratting in my EvE life, so can say it‘s totally optional as an income source. ---
**Author:** ![JoostSkywalker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/joostskywalker/32/407853_2.png) [@JoostSkywalker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JoostSkywalker)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 12:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329/57 "2020-11-25T12:22:25Z")
Wonder what the forum for real LIFE would look like. So unfair Tesla doesn’t deserve their posittion. ---
**Author:** ![Makshima\_Shogo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makshima_shogo/32/247769_2.png) [@Makshima\_Shogo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Makshima_Shogo)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 12:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329/58 "2020-11-25T12:28:37Z")
Your post makes a lot of sense but if you want to get into wars and stuff the quickest the best method would be to run low sec faction warfare, it works out to about 180mil/hour in a t1 fitted ship that costs nothing and you can fly such ships with 14 days of training. The best way to get a high sp char is to buy one at a rate of 1billion per 1mil sp. So if you want to take your current char and do faction warfare for 4 hours a day semi active that’s 720mil a day, in training time rates that’s 720k sp a day training speed. You will have a fully war capable char in a month of farming. Even better would be that your faction war char is a seperate char while your newly bought char can just do what ever you want without having to worry about all the 10m ship losses from farming. But obviously the more money you save before buying a char the better as it gets harder to inject and get more sp the higher sp the char is. ---
**Author:** ![JoostSkywalker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/joostskywalker/32/407853_2.png) [@JoostSkywalker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JoostSkywalker)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 12:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329/59 "2020-11-25T12:34:48Z")
You should not bother about the changes but Just develope your playstyle. And even this might change over the years. Money comes as it flows. Me i try to achieve making 100 mil every time i play in about 1,5 hour. ---
**Author:** ![Malaghen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/malaghen/32/288291_2.png) [@Malaghen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Malaghen)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 12:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329/60 "2020-11-25T12:35:23Z")
> [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > I don’t get it, mining income is up, exploration income is almost same, DED sites are same, Abyss didn’t exist when I was a new player, mission income is same, Povchen is a new low skill income source. PI is down, and industry recalibrating, but all in all low skill income sources are either stable or up. > > I never did or even miss classic ratting in my EvE life, so can say it‘s totally optional as an income source. Well, I don’t get your point either: not all minerals are up (mostly lowsec are, but high sec either have dropped significantly (pyroxeres, scordite) or are dropping (veldspar)), and with the ratting nerf there is more tension toward other sources of income as people are transitionning toward other activities (abyssal filament price increased to the point some steps between tiers are now negligeable, and relic/data sites are more scarce as more people are hunting them, especially in null sec). I might be extrapolating, but with the drop of ship production shown in economic report, I don’t think that blueprint research income has remained steady either. So it’s very far from being stable or increasing from my point of view. Anyway, thanks to the three of you for your constructive feedback ! ---
**Author:** ![Makshima\_Shogo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makshima_shogo/32/247769_2.png) [@Makshima\_Shogo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Makshima_Shogo)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 12:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329/61 "2020-11-25T12:37:24Z")
> [@Malaghen](#): > > and with the ratting nerf O its a ratting buff btw, only a nerf for people using supers to farm that cant take gates to the 115% - 150% systems. Also ratting ships don’t die anywhere near as often becuase the people coming to steal have no point or scram. Out of interest what is your income rate atm that you feel is not high enough to sustain your dreams? In 2007 when I started playing I was making something like 20mil/hour I think now a days with all the info out there its much easier get going. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/enough-is-enough-a-newplayer-feedback-about-income-drop-from-ccp-latest-patchs/281329.md?page=4)