# Ethical Hauling **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [May 29, 2023, 8:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ethical-hauling/407513 "2023-05-29T08:33:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Errauan\_Utelm\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/errauan_utelm_freir/32/372848_2.png) [@Errauan\_Utelm\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Errauan_Utelm_Freir)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 8:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ethical-hauling/407513/1 "2023-05-29T08:33:38Z")
Hi all. 3 days ago there was a ganker in Red Frog Freight channel. He was telling them to “hurry up” with his courier contract because he wanted to “dunk miners asap” around Abudban. Why hauling groups like RFF and PushX allow this to happen? Is there any ethical freighting group refusing to acept obvious hauling contract for gankers? I believe RFF and PushX should show some responsible behavior about this topic. After all gankers main objetive besides loot, is to push players out of the game for the lols and giggles. Cmon guys, you can do it better. A courier is not always just a courier. ---
**Author:** ![Dyver\_Phycad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dyver_phycad/32/358575_2.png) [@Dyver\_Phycad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dyver_Phycad)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 8:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ethical-hauling/407513/2 "2023-05-29T08:51:04Z")
You could join Haulers Channel. Gankers aren’t allowed in there and are being actively removed from the community. As for PushX: They fly courier services for Goonswarm Federation, one of the biggest ganker group in EVE. They can even dockin their Delve infrastructure. They have absolutely no spine and no morals. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 8:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ethical-hauling/407513/3 "2023-05-29T08:57:45Z")
I have long suspected that PUSHX are linked to certain gankers. Also there are gankers in the hauling channel, some surprising ones too. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 9:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ethical-hauling/407513/4 "2023-05-29T09:34:19Z")
Not just haulers are linked to gankers. I’ve heard many miners and industrialists also sell their goods to any buyer, including buyers that use minerals and ships to _gank other people_. Have these suppliers and enablers of ganks no morals? ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_the_flame/32/490165_2.png) [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_the_Flame)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 9:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ethical-hauling/407513/5 "2023-05-29T09:37:20Z")
Someone should call **`555-CONCORD`** and inform them about this shocking insight. 😏 ---
**Author:** ![Maplefox](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maplefox/32/419129_2.png) [@Maplefox](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maplefox)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 1:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ethical-hauling/407513/6 "2023-05-29T13:10:52Z")
Nature is healing! ---
**Author:** ![Cliff\_Ozuwara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cliff_ozuwara/32/384215_2.png) [@Cliff\_Ozuwara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cliff_Ozuwara)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 1:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ethical-hauling/407513/7 "2023-05-29T13:32:19Z")
> Goonswarm Federation, one of the biggest ganker group in EVE what i just opened [https://zkillboard.com/asearch/#{"buttons":["week","label-ganked","sort-date","sort-desc","page2","victimsonly"]}](https://zkillboard.com/asearch/#%7B%22buttons%22:%5B%22week%22,%22label-ganked%22,%22sort-date%22,%22sort-desc%22,%22page2%22,%22victimsonly%22%5D%7D) I see novus ordo, safety, code and frat (soronity) + some others where is goons? ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 2:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ethical-hauling/407513/8 "2023-05-29T14:12:16Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Have these suppliers and enablers of ganks no morals? It’s terrible what passes for acceptable behavior these days. I’ve only heard whispers, but apparently even some _game developers_ support ganking and similar shady behavior. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Order\_Enforcer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/new_order_enforcer/32/387867_2.png) [@New\_Order\_Enforcer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/New_Order_Enforcer)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 2:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ethical-hauling/407513/9 "2023-05-29T14:21:52Z")
I like Red Frog. I have dunked their freighters, webbers, pods… and they keep moving my ganking mods in order to continue the carnage! \o/ > **[Fenrir | Katie Latere | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/97220615/)** > > Katie Latere (Red Frog Freight) lost their Fenrir in Liekuri (The Forge). Final Blow by PIROZHOK-S-KARTOSHKOJ (PIROGI S KARTOSHKOJ) flying in a Coercer. Total Value: 4,668,049,247.65 ISK ---
**Author:** ![an675](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/an675/32/399327_2.png) [@an675](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/an675)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 2:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ethical-hauling/407513/10 "2023-05-29T14:26:55Z")
I keep seeing these references to goons and ganking, but no one ever seems to know which ganking groups it is that are associated with them despite them being “one of the biggest ganker groups”, perhaps you could elaborate since at least two of us are curious? > [@Cliff\_Ozuwara](#): > > I see novus ordo, safety, code and frat (soronity) + some others > where is goons? ---
**Author:** ![Srima\_Darkstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/srima_darkstar/32/374461_2.png) [@Srima\_Darkstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Srima_Darkstar)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 2:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ethical-hauling/407513/11 "2023-05-29T14:31:00Z")
@Gerard_Amatin the real universe shows a serious lack of empathy and morality. Therefore why would anyone expect a virtual one to be “better”? Look around the vast amount of online games, PvP based games are the most toxic for a good reason. Games are an escape mechanism, we are free to do as we please, the gloves are off, and many times the user’s id is running the show. That will be $400 for intense psychotherapy, you can pay at the desk. Have a nice day! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Anthony\_FatTony\_Amico](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anthony_fattony_amico/32/391106_2.png) [@Anthony\_FatTony\_Amico](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anthony_FatTony_Amico)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 2:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ethical-hauling/407513/12 "2023-05-29T14:33:52Z")
Yes! New Eden is a world filled with horrible people. Read the backstory guys. Plenty of suffering/grief in it. Yes, I am sure people who make the common gank ships/ammo know the business they are in. It’s like this is revolutionary information lol… > [@Srima\_Darkstar](#): > > Games are an escape mechanism, we are free to do as we please, the gloves are off, and many times the user’s id is running the show. And sadly some people on this forum want things to be kinder and nicer. On the internet 😆 ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 2:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ethical-hauling/407513/13 "2023-05-29T14:35:35Z")
I dont see it as a bad thing to offer services to goons or code. Etc when it comes to hauling. Similar to signal cartel, they dont keep a red list and will help anyone stuck in a wh. Same with us in USIA. anyone who needs standings from npcs, regardless of affiliation we provide ---
**Author:** ![Xuxe\_Xu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuxe_xu/32/464660_2.png) [@Xuxe\_Xu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuxe_Xu)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 3:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ethical-hauling/407513/14 "2023-05-29T15:52:07Z")
# PUSHX KICKS FEDO PUPPIES! ---
**Author:** ![Dyver\_Phycad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dyver_phycad/32/358575_2.png) [@Dyver\_Phycad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dyver_Phycad)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 4:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ethical-hauling/407513/15 "2023-05-29T16:10:40Z")
@Cliff_Ozuwara If both of you can’t use Zkill search, you won’t find what is obvious to others. 🤷 > **[Goonswarm Federation | Alliance](https://zkillboard.com/alliance/1354830081/reset/group/513/)** > > Goonswarm Federation: 2,956,412 ships destroyed and 2,556,053 ships lost. ![grafik](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/2/9/1/291c0beb181fba25ef51c82293bda686b8c19b90.png) > **[Goonswarm Federation | Alliance](https://zkillboard.com/alliance/1354830081/reset/group/902/losses/)** > > Goonswarm Federation: 2,956,412 ships destroyed and 2,556,053 ships lost. ![grafik](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/3/d/c/3dc9595d729c9b5f219c4877270ff2d34a7d5552.png) Granted, they went into a bit of a lull since a number of weeks ago, mainly because Kusion disappeared, but until then they were the strongest gankers, worked together with CODE/Safety, and organized Burn Jita for many years. ---
**Author:** ![Cliff\_Ozuwara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cliff_ozuwara/32/384215_2.png) [@Cliff\_Ozuwara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cliff_Ozuwara)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 4:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ethical-hauling/407513/16 "2023-05-29T16:33:45Z")
are there any gankers in goons except kusion and mat? “one of the biggest ganker group in EVE” yea, i see lul ---
**Author:** ![an675](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/an675/32/399327_2.png) [@an675](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/an675)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 5:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ethical-hauling/407513/17 "2023-05-29T17:33:05Z")
> [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > If both of you can’t use Zkill search, you won’t find what is obvious to others. Clearly your ability to use the search didn’t extend to actually looking at the results, since most of kills involve the same couple of people rather than being an alliance wide activity. > [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > and organized Burn Jita for many years. There hasn’t been a Burn Jita for 4 years, the last one was 2019, it was cancelled in 2020 and probably won’t return because CCP nerfed the mechanics. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 5:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ethical-hauling/407513/18 "2023-05-29T17:58:41Z")
> [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](#): > > I dont see it as a bad thing to offer services to goons or code. Etc when it comes to hauling. I love how they try to wrap all this up in “ethics” and “ethical behavior” like this is some sort of real life service. “Ethically sourced wreckage” as opposed to “sourced wreckage.” But wait! This isn’t about a hauling service for gankers. It’s about retaining 2 year old noobs with their freighters player base! ---
**Author:** ![Srima\_Darkstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/srima_darkstar/32/374461_2.png) [@Srima\_Darkstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Srima_Darkstar)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 9:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ethical-hauling/407513/19 "2023-05-29T21:49:24Z")
Oh that Goonswarm? They have their own [music videos](https://www.youtube.com/@Srsli). I think the last time I ran into one of them was last year in Miroitem? People have wars and conflicts and true entrepreneurs will sell arms to anyone willing to pay for them. Do any of you really think, for one hot minute, the items you sell in the market are only purchased by “friendly” players?? I may not agree with their tactics, but if they offer ISK for something I sell, it is theirs to buy. 🐠 🐠 🐠 🦈 ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 10:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ethical-hauling/407513/20 "2023-05-29T22:39:58Z")
The very notion of ‘ethical hauling’ is _laughable_, given that all mining, hauling, and industry is part of a pyramid of activity whose very apex is pew pew. Haulers are not in some separate universe and cannot dissociate themselves from that. It never ceases to amaze me how so many miners and haulers fail to grasp this. If you haul the materials for combat…then by the sheer laws of karma that combat _ought_ to come your way. [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ethical-hauling/407513.md?page=2)