# Eve Bots - are they a bad thing, is CCP complicit in their use? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [October 27, 2017, 10:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538 "2017-10-27T10:09:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 50
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 11:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/993 "2018-02-07T11:43:26Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > Are we going to have a problem with your poor research skills Salvos? > > “Punkbuster” has been running for 15 years, many of us know of it because we have played games that feature it. The games that feature it never seem to have a problem with botters. > > Do research so you know what you’re talking about before you agree or disagree. @Salvos_Rhoska You dont understand how Punkbusters works. It doesnt work by monitoring processes on client-side. Only by what the client sends to the service provider. ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 11:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/994 "2018-02-07T11:43:38Z")
It’s not a magic bullet and their are ways around client-side detection with sandboxing and VMs, or just homemade bots the software knows nothing about, but it is on the table. I think though, a lot more could be done without that by just parsing the data they already have. The real problem is that they are just completely understaffed and overwhelmed. There are just not enough people for the magnitude of the problem given even automated tools need some level of dev oversight. I like the talk I am hearing, but Team Security has relied on pretty heavily on such bluster for a long-time while clear bots operate with impunity for years. Something real has to happen, client-side detection or not if people are going to be convinced CCP really takes the issue seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 11:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/995 "2018-02-07T11:45:09Z")
COPIED AND PASTED FROM PUNKBUSTER WEBSITE; How does PunkBuster work? The PunkBuster anti-cheat system actively scans memory while players are connected to the server. The scanner is continously searching for cheats much like an anti-virus scanner searches for viruses. PunkBuster does not use subjective methods such as data hueristics or player performance metrics. PunkBuster’s memory scanner objectively detects the presence of cheats in memory and then kicks the player from the server. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 11:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/996 "2018-02-07T11:45:35Z")
> [@Black\_Pedro](#): > > client-side detection Cant happen. Its illegal in all kinds of ways. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 11:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/997 "2018-02-07T11:46:23Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > COPIED AND PASTED FROM PUNKBUSTER WEBSITE; > > How does PunkBuster work? > The PunkBuster anti-cheat system actively scans memory while players are connected to the server. The scanner is continously searching for cheats much like an anti-virus scanner searches for viruses. PunkBuster does not use subjective methods such as data hueristics or player performance metrics. PunkBuster’s memory scanner objectively detects the presence of cheats in memory and then kicks the player from the server. That doesnt mean what you think it does. Punkbusters primarily searches for hacks on the client itself, which send data incongrouos with the current version of the game. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 11:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/998 "2018-02-07T11:47:35Z")
Which is why Eve would need to change and have a LEGAL NOTICE detailing the particulars of what punkbuster will do to your PC when installed. If you agree you can play eve and CCP and Punkbuster can access your memory, if you disagree then you can’t play eve. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 11:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/999 "2018-02-07T11:48:54Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > If you agree you can play eve and CCP and Punkbuster can access your memory, Punkbusters will not reveal bots in EVE. ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 11:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1000 "2018-02-07T11:49:14Z")
It’s not illegal if you consent, at least in most places. And CCP will just make giving that consent a condition for playing the game. Blizzard has being doing that for WoW and D3 and I guess the rest of their games for like a decade. > **[Blizzard Entertainment | Warden client](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blizzard_Entertainment#Warden_client)** > > Blizzard has made use of a special form of software known as the 'Warden Client'. The Warden client is known to be used with Blizzard's online games such as Diablo and World of Warcraft, and the Terms of Service contain a clause consenting to the Warden software's RAM scans while a Blizzard game is running. > The Warden client scans a small portion of the code segment of running processes in order to determine whether any third-party programs are running. The goal of this is to detect and address ... ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 11:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1001 "2018-02-07T11:50:15Z")
So you don’t know how a computer works either? I’ll break it down. When you run any program on a PC it gets loaded into RAM. RAM can be analysed for patterns and an action taken if CCP and punkbuster software agree. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 11:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1002 "2018-02-07T11:53:22Z")
I like the way you think, you can see that a specialist 3rd party who is dedicated to this needs to be employed. It is evident that CCP does not employ anyone to perform such tasks for Eve, this needs to change quickly. Either way CCP will lose money through ingame isk de-value’ing or paying a 3rd party to sort it. CCP could charge subs £0.10 to £0.50 more and forward the extra money to people like Punkbuster or Warden. I don’t mind paying a little extra to keep the game as it should be. ---
**Author:** ![Soleiyu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/soleiyu/32/176333_2.png) [@Soleiyu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Soleiyu)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 11:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1003 "2018-02-07T11:54:45Z")
Not sure CCP have ever taken a truly ‘hard line’ against bots, the game uses no anti-cheat/bot detection tech at all as far as I know, and bots have been mostly free to operate with impunity for years - they pay subs/buy plex afterall. The game, and CCP themselves, are in such poor shape right now that _investing_ money in _decreasing_ income is probably not a priority. Have The agency and chat bubbles instead. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 12:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1004 "2018-02-07T12:04:56Z")
> [@Black\_Pedro](#): > > It’s not illegal if you consent Laws relevant to this are years behind, and case history is sparse. I read up on the Warden system in WoW, and I find it unacceptably invasive and would discontinue my account. If this was implemented in EVE, I would stop playing, just on principle alone. I will not agree with CCP/Blizzard or any other business scanning my system processes which (on my part) wont involve bots. * * * I thought my bot-test was a nuclear solution, but this one is even more severe. I understand your premise, that consent (currently) legally enables them to access that data, but as a person and player I, for one, will not agree to that. Not because I have something to hide, but because they (or any other company) have no goddam business gaining access to scan what is happening on my PC. However, if they offer me a discount on their service for that access, I might be willing. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 12:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1005 "2018-02-07T12:12:07Z")
Well, this is the logical way to go. I can’t see any other solution. Your views leave me scratching my head most times. You’re happy to have reputable companies like Mcaffe, AVG, Avast scan your PC for virus, but you’re not happy for gaming services companies to do the same thing? ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 12:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1006 "2018-02-07T12:14:40Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > Well, this is the logical way to go. I dont see how being required to provide access to your PCs processes, is the “logical way to go.” Its invasive and opens the floodgates for any number of service providers to moniter/collect/collate data on the other processes run by clients that just want to play a game. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 12:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1007 "2018-02-07T12:16:55Z")
If you truly believe what you just typed then you would have never installed anti-virus/malware on your PC. The truth is you have no idea what you’re talking about. All of the software currently on your PC accesses sensitive data belonging to you. You trust your operating system/internet browser to store your passwords and limited financial data for example. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Engraver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_engraver/32/45178_2.png) [@Dark\_Engraver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Engraver)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 12:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1008 "2018-02-07T12:19:52Z")
M8 we’re all more or less already being watched for worse things such as potential terrorist ties/activity so if your government discovers you like MLP pron or something no biggie ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 12:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1009 "2018-02-07T12:20:14Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > If you truly believe what you just typed then you would have never installed anti-virus/malware on your PC. Those softwares are run locally. They dont send data outward unless you agree to help the software provider collate data on malware/viruses. ---
**Author:** ![Rosov\_Aulmais](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rosov_aulmais/32/168511_2.png) [@Rosov\_Aulmais](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rosov_Aulmais)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 12:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1010 "2018-02-07T12:20:18Z")
Would CCP really care the opinion of a few privacy enthusiasts? ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 12:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1011 "2018-02-07T12:21:16Z")
> [@Rosov\_Aulmais](#): > > Would CCP really care the opinion of a few privacy enthusiasts? I think you will find the EVE community is vehemently pro-privacy. ---
**Author:** ![Rosov\_Aulmais](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rosov_aulmais/32/168511_2.png) [@Rosov\_Aulmais](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rosov_Aulmais)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 12:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1012 "2018-02-07T12:23:00Z")
And did that make CCP change their ideas? Any examples? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538.md?page=49) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538.md?page=51)