# Eve Bots - are they a bad thing, is CCP complicit in their use? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [October 27, 2017, 10:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538 "2017-10-27T10:09:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 52
**Author:** ![Rosov\_Aulmais](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rosov_aulmais/32/168511_2.png) [@Rosov\_Aulmais](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rosov_Aulmais)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 1:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1033 "2018-02-07T13:28:07Z")
But that doesn’t have anything to do with players’ attitude towards privacy. I see that many fellow posters just grudgingly accept the notion of “you have to accept EULA to play”. While I believe CCP isn’t gonna invest on developing such a system because the game is in a bad state already, I don’t think players had enough influence to make CCP back down. Eventually some will quit, some will just forget about it. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 1:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1034 "2018-02-07T13:38:05Z")
> [@Rosov\_Aulmais](#): > > I see that many fellow posters just grudgingly accept the notion of “you have to accept EULA to play”. Dunno. Implementation of such a change would certainly involve re-signing a new TOS/EULA. Imo, EVE players are largely pro net-neutrality. I can be wrong on that, but I dont think so, especially among vets that have been on the internet since it began. ---
**Author:** ![Yiole\_Gionglao](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yiole_gionglao/32/516090_2.png) [@Yiole\_Gionglao](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yiole_Gionglao)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 2:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1035 "2018-02-07T14:33:10Z")
You got it wrong. Punkbuster doesn’t knows what you’re running and doesn’t gives a damn. They just parse the memory looking for specific chains belonging to some pieces of code -bots, cheats, et cetera. Think of looking for Wally in a series of pictures. You’re not accessing the personal data of the people on those pictures, you’re just comparing them to the person you’re looking for. You literally don’t know anything on the strangers whose faces you’re browsing, only that they’re not Wally, until you find Wally. And that is legal if the customer gives consent and no user specific data is sent out. ---
**Author:** ![Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gadget_helmsdottir/32/374037_2.png) [@Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gadget_Helmsdottir)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 2:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1036 "2018-02-07T14:40:59Z")
Invasive, not evasive. –Gadget the maven ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 3:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1037 "2018-02-07T15:15:22Z")
> [@Yiole\_Gionglao](#): > > And that is legal if the customer gives consent and no user specific data is sent out. Its currently “legal” in a vacuum. Laws dont yet exist to handle this. I, personally, do not believe consent is the issue or term for access for a company to your PC. No company should have access to my PC, regardless of their self-issued terms, nor do I agree such terms should be legally binding on me, no matter what it says in their TOS/EULA. ---
**Author:** ![Jorad\_Todako](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jorad_todako/32/195448_2.png) [@Jorad\_Todako](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jorad_Todako)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 3:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1038 "2018-02-07T15:47:42Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > An intrusive system like Punkbusters or Warden (WoW) is an option, but I dont think EVE players will agree to that. > > Im not sure such a system would even detect botters. > > By and large, I think EVE players are fiercely independent/autonomous, and unfortunately also have quite low confidence in CCP. > > I, for one, dont want CCP having access to my PC processes, or anyone else, unless they have a legal warrant to do so. Imo a simple change that could address it: Change the EULA to include appropriate RL fines and damages to be payed back to CCP if found botting and/or RMTing. Lawyers and a few lines of text added will already deter quite a bunch. That said Im not even sure if current law has the means to, nor if CCP could even prove botting and RMTing as seriously damaging their business enough. ---
**Author:** ![Rosov\_Aulmais](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rosov_aulmais/32/168511_2.png) [@Rosov\_Aulmais](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rosov_Aulmais)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 3:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1039 "2018-02-07T15:50:36Z")
That is quite same as filing lawsuits against botter/hacker companies. Larger game companies like Blizzard can do this but I doubt if CCP had such resource for that. > **[Blizzard seeks $8.5 million in lawsuit against Buddy Bots maker](https://www.pcgamer.com/blizzard-seeks-85-million-in-lawsuit-against-buddy-bots-maker/)** > > Bossland's Buddy Bots enable cheating in Overwatch, Hearthstone, and numerous other games. ---
**Author:** ![Jorad\_Todako](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jorad_todako/32/195448_2.png) [@Jorad\_Todako](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jorad_Todako)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 3:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1040 "2018-02-07T15:52:44Z")
> [@Rosov\_Aulmais](#): > > That is quite same as filing lawsuits against botter/hacker companies. Larger game companies like Blizzard can do this but I doubt if CCP had such resource for that. No, but Im sure they could hire a bunch of lawyers to see if any changes could be done further up the stream, ie, the EULA. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 4:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1041 "2018-02-07T16:19:03Z")
> [@Jorad\_Todako](#): > > No, but Im sure they could hire a bunch of lawyers to see if any changes could be done further up the stream, ie, the EULA. EULA doesnt stop botters/RMT. No legal agreement will. They don’t give a ■■■■ about what is in the TOS/EULA. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 9:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1042 "2018-02-07T21:40:23Z")
OK, we do have to think on this carefully. At this point a punkbuster/blizzard type of 3rd party software seems to be the solution due to the subscription revenue from botters. Banning the botters would be harsh and we may find that they will still sub and play fairly once a type of punkbuster is implemented. Employing people to gain evidence against players is a complete waste of time, If theres no counter botting program attached to the game then the problem will always be there. A Captcha type of solution dressed up in any fashion will be annoying. I like a fair game so if CCP implement this I will agree to it in the EULA. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2018, 8:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1043 "2018-02-08T08:25:53Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > At this point a punkbuster/blizzard type of 3rd party software seems to be the solution due to the subscription revenue from botters. Wonder if this is possible, or would it be effective at detecting/preventing EVE botters. Afaik for punkbusters, game companies rent the service. The WoW one was probably developed inhouse for Blizzard, from Blizzards massive wealth. So CCP will either have to rent the IP from someone else and integrate it, or develop their own inhouse, ---
**Author:** ![Keno\_Skir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/keno_skir/32/460582_2.png) [@Keno\_Skir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Keno_Skir)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2018, 10:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1044 "2018-02-08T10:58:57Z")
Oh look even PC Gamer are talking about bots in EvE. I wonder if anything will be done about it now… [http://www.pcgamer.com/bots-are-threatening-eve-onlines-economy-and-players-are-fed-up/](http://www.pcgamer.com/bots-are-threatening-eve-onlines-economy-and-players-are-fed-up/) ---
**Author:** ![Chan\_aar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chan_aar/32/377560_2.png) [@Chan\_aar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chan_aar)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2018, 1:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1045 "2018-02-06T13:05:45Z")
At the moment this is just the kind of coverage we (as players) want to see. CCP really seems to have taken their eyes off the ball this last year, maybe bad press can get them to refocus. ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2018, 1:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1046 "2018-02-06T13:08:17Z")
It could be the headline on the front page of the New York Times and they still wouldn’t (or can’t) do anything about it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Dunning\_Kruger](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_dunning_kruger/32/414724_2.png) [@The\_Dunning\_Kruger](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Dunning_Kruger)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2018, 1:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1047 "2018-02-06T13:13:10Z")
> “I could not get in contact with [Ukrainian Soviet Socialistic Republic] leadership and had not received rent and fee payment from [them], [that’s] why [they were] kicked from [the] alliance,” Mac Noris said. > > He also said that he had known Ukrainian Soviet Socialistic Republic pilots for five years and never once suspected that they were using bots to farm ISK. “Any players who [are] using bots [or] scripts will be kicked from alliance and will be reported to CCP,” he wrote. Kids with Guns reporting botters? 😂 95% of the alliance members are botters, everyone knows about it and nobody that could do something about it seems to care. ---
**Author:** ![Keno\_Skir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/keno_skir/32/460582_2.png) [@Keno\_Skir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Keno_Skir)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2018, 1:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1048 "2018-02-06T13:14:47Z")
> [@PC Gamer article about EvE Online Botting](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pc-gamer-article-about-eve-online-botting/55704/3): > > It could be the headline on the front page of the New York Times and they still wouldn’t (or can’t) do anything about it. You might be right about this not prompting any action. It’s not a case of “ **can’t** ” though. It just isn’t. Any number of serviceable suggestions have been made by the community from captcha systems to a re-vamped reporting system that actually does something. Less talking and more doing is what’s needed, though who’s to say if this is even embarrassing enough to prompt any action? Nice to see it out in the open a bit anyway. Can’t censor the dirty bits out of a PC Gamer article like you can a company owned forum. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Dieu-le-veut](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anne_dieu-le-veut/32/148292_2.png) [@Anne\_Dieu-le-veut](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anne_Dieu-le-veut)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2018, 1:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1049 "2018-02-06T13:26:49Z")
I didn’t know PC Gamer was even still around. I’ll take any spotlight no matter how small shining on CCP to try to shame them into taking some action. > [@PC Gamer article about EvE Online Botting](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pc-gamer-article-about-eve-online-botting/55704/3): > > It could be the headline on the front page of the New York Times and they still wouldn’t (or can’t) do anything about it. Honestly, I think it’s more won’t than can’t. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2018, 1:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1050 "2018-02-06T13:40:09Z")
that’s because you have no idea what you are talking about. ---
**Author:** ![mkint](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mkint/32/14424_2.png) [@mkint](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/mkint)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2018, 2:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1051 "2018-02-06T14:22:29Z")
I have to admit, I’m starting to want to bot now. I could use a couple extra grand a month. ---
**Author:** ![Dora\_SiPetualang](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dora_sipetualang/32/52316_2.png) [@Dora\_SiPetualang](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dora_SiPetualang)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2018, 2:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1052 "2018-02-06T14:56:15Z")
> [@PC Gamer article about EvE Online Botting](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pc-gamer-article-about-eve-online-botting/55704/8): > > I have to admit, I’m starting to want to bot now. I could use a couple extra grand a month. dont … youll killing the game if your botted in [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538.md?page=51) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538.md?page=53)