# Eve Bots - are they a bad thing, is CCP complicit in their use? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [October 27, 2017, 10:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538 "2017-10-27T10:09:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 73
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 10:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1457 "2018-02-19T22:32:34Z")
> [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > Please Babi, put the dummy back in and keep your uninformed opinions to yourself. Ah ha! I was wondering what was going on given that the forums show you responding to Scipio. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Baba\_Ji](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/baba_ji/32/36487_2.png) [@Baba\_Ji](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Baba_Ji)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 2:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1458 "2018-02-20T02:06:39Z")
> [@Baba\_Ji](#): > > Company policy allowing multi client/character interaction is the crucible that forged the way for the Botting fleets and the associated RMT practices. Do you deny that multi client interaction paved the way for Botting fleets and RMT? > [@Baba\_Ji](#): > > The policy choice exponentially damages the foundation development,future policies,player interaction,revenue stream,and in general the whole experience. Do you deny that policy choices damaged the potential experience as listed? > [@Baba\_Ji](#): > > Gaming is cheapened and many don’t care about the braggadocio of how much a player can obsess and the lengths they will go in that obsession. Do you deny that a player bragging about contributing to the problem,to the point of obsession,makes the game worse or cheap? > [@Baba\_Ji](#): > > CCP was fully aware of the dynamic and from the onset and chose to capitalize on it without regard to the long term growth. Do you deny what CCP had in mind wasn’t their intent? To make money and not knowing the game would last for 15 years and continuing on? > [@Baba\_Ji](#): > > All gaming companies do this now. Do you deny that all mmos have the intent to capitalize by way of multi client game play? (Perhaps not all but in large nearly all.) > [@Baba\_Ji](#): > > In a sense allowing you to become a device for gain using peoples lack of ability to self moderate. Do you deny that moderation is not better than obsession? (I actually didn’y mean you personally by using the word “you”. I will change that to “player” if it pleases you.) > [@Baba\_Ji](#): > > Its called being a slave to perceived necessity. Do you deny that games are with the intent to keep the player engaged as much and as long as possible? > [@Baba\_Ji](#): > > Not what I consider fun in that context. Do you deny that some people have reasonable expectations? > [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > So your judging others by your standards, narrow minded ones at that. > > I wonder if all these noob highsec scrubs are aware of where Eve would be to day without the dedicated players that have been here for years… > > And what gives anyone the right to say how much time or effort I can put into a game I enjoy. > > The 4 months you’ve spent floating around highsec has given you such insight you are in a position to not only tell others how they should play a game BUT you also take it upon yourself to tell the owners of the company they are doing it wrong… Please Babi, put the dummy back in and keep your uninformed opinions to yourself. If you choose to deny all I posted in the reply to what I quoted you from then,YES I am narrow minded. I do wonder where Eve would be,when considering where it is now at this moment. I did link your reply but I haven’t judged you personally. Enjoy as you will. 4 months lol. I played Eve off and on with many accounts over a near ten year period. I don’t recall saying they are doing it wrong in the manner of your words. Sgt Ocker where shall I put you,while you are informing yourself? I don’t think Eve would still be around if they did it all wrong. At this moment there are real problems. Eventually they will pay a price if the problem of Botting and RMT isn’t curbed. Not Sure why you quoted Scipio instead of me. Botting and RMT need to end! ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 8:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1459 "2018-02-20T08:00:42Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > > > Botters ideally want to run as actively, as long, and with as many accounts as possible. > > I am not Scipio but… > > No. Explain your disagreement. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 8:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1460 "2018-02-20T08:04:37Z")
> [@The\_Dunning\_Kruger](#): > > I could set the record straight, but fear it would be a waste of my time. Im not Aaron, whom doesnt want to read or learn. Please do set the record straight on my part. I will read it. However, if you dont, Im left with the conclusion you know less than either of us, and are just making empty claims. * * * Aaron and I are not the only ones here. If you wont correct us for fear its a waste of time on us, do it for the other readers. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 8:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1461 "2018-02-20T08:08:43Z")
A botter wants to maximize his rewards…but also has to minimize the chances of being caught. As such there are trade offs. If they run too many bots they become easier to spot. If they are on too much, they are easier to spot, and so forth. So, no they won’t “run as actively, as long, and with as many accounts as possible.” ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 8:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1462 "2018-02-20T08:10:43Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > So, no they won’t “run as actively, as long, and with as many accounts as possible.” “As possible” includes the condition of not being caught. If you wish, I can amend the observation for clarities sake. Do you agree with the following observation? **Botters ideally want to run as actively, as long, and with as many accounts as possible, without getting caught.** ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 8:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1463 "2018-02-20T08:24:28Z")
Sure, that works. Now, suppose you are a botter (not that you are one, just pretend you are) and CCP has just wiped out your botting net work. That is you were using a given strategy for botting. Say you had your bots doing the following: 1. Bots were not all logging in simultaneously. 2. Bots were not logged in 23.5/7, but would log in for say 4 hours at a time. 3. You are using different ISPs. Now, further suppose you have plenty of resources from all your botting and you are going to set up another botting network. Would you use 1-3 above or would you look at changing some of them…like say number 2. Might you shift your ratting from say a fixed time period to a random time period of 2-4 hours using a random number generator to log your bots off so as to make your network harder to spot? And here is another thought experiment… Again suppose you are a botter, and Team Security shows up in this thread (which you are watching) and spills their guts all over the thread. We use the following to detect bots: 1. Method 1 2. Method 2 … … … As a botter what would you do? I don’t know about you, but I’d review my botting software and look to see where I could improve it to avoid detection under all of those methods. Yes? My point is that this is not something where you can find a simple solution. Do X and that’s it, botting is dead or suffers a major set back forever. You might get some success, but the botters will adapt, and in turn CCP will have to adapt. CCP, the players, and even botters create the environment we play in. As each one changes behavior they in turn influence the others. It is very unlikely there is a magic bullet here. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 8:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1464 "2018-02-20T08:32:34Z")
> [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > So your judging others by your standards, narrow minded ones at that. > > I wonder if all these noob highsec scrubs are aware of where Eve would be to day without the dedicated players that have been here for years… > > And what gives anyone the right to say how much time or effort I can put into a game I enjoy. > > The 4 months you’ve spent floating around highsec has given you such insight you are in a position to not only tell others how they should play a game BUT you also take it upon yourself to tell the owners of the company they are doing it wrong… Please Babi, put the dummy back in and keep your uninformed opinions to yourself. What? Did you respond to someone else and mix that up with me or something? That seems a bit random (apology, not meaning to mean that in a bad way, just scratching my head) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Dunning\_Kruger](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_dunning_kruger/32/414724_2.png) [@The\_Dunning\_Kruger](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Dunning_Kruger)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 8:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1465 "2018-02-20T08:33:52Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Im not Aaron, whom doesnt want to read or learn. > > Please do set the record straight on my part. I already did explain it. > [@The\_Dunning\_Kruger](#): > > And if you want to know how bots are “seeing” local, they analyze the rendered frame, something CCP can’t detect. Hence the only way to stop bots from doing that is to prevent local from being rendered in the first place (e.g. remove it), but then they’ll switch to position themselves at gates and see you coming there. > > Add in the scanner window and they’ll “see” wormholes too, although docking up whenever a new random anomaly pops up in the system would at least add to their downtime. > [@Aaron](#): > > Ok, I accept what you say and now understand how bots “See” local which makes my theory incorrect. Thanks. I’m inclined to believe that Aaron isn’t as narrow-minded as I considered him to be. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 8:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1466 "2018-02-20T08:42:36Z")
Yeah, I’m pretty sure he is replying to Baba Ji, but for some reason it looks like he is replying to you. Classic “trembling hand” equilibrium, IMO. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 9:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1467 "2018-02-20T09:14:41Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > 1 Bots were not all logging in simultaneously. > 2 Bots were not logged in 23.5/7, but would log in for say 4 hours at a time. > 3 You are using different ISPs. Assuming we are talking only about the accounts that got caught. After the suspension I would: 1- Either stripmine the accounts of SP/assets/characters, put those accounts on a 1-3 month break, move them elsewhere to continue the same activity, or consider them expendable and continue exactly as I did before. -2 I would consider changing their uptimes, depending on whether I think CCP detected them based on that, or player reports. Probably not though. My current hypothesis is that CCP does not track activity/uptime of bots, to any significant degree. 3- I would arrange new IPs for each, and probably change their associated email addresses, if I keep them running. This gives me plausible deniability to claiming the account was haxxored etc. Infact Id probably do this even before being suspended, on an irregular basis. > [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > My point is that this is not something where you can find a simple solution. Nobody has claimed otherwise. > [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > You might get some success, but the botters will adapt, and in turn CCP will have to adapt. That is, has and most likely will always be the case. If CCP does not adapt to bot changes, they will become ever increasingly difficult to detect with their outdated means, and more numerous as botters realize they can get away with it. That a “simple solution” may not be possible, does not mean solutions are not possible, either as complex or multiple complimentary ones. Some solutions may be more effective vs some bots, than others. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 9:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1468 "2018-02-20T09:23:05Z")
> [@The\_Dunning\_Kruger](#): > > I already did explain it. I was already aware of that, before you “explained” it. I just didnt bother explaining it to Aaron, since he turned down the offer to learn more. Thats why I mentioned removing Local from NS. So what part did you think I need explained to me? ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 1:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1469 "2018-02-20T13:03:50Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > I was already aware of that, before you “explained” it. > > I just didnt bother explaining it to Aaron, since he turned down the offer to learn more. Lets be specific here, I turned down an offer to learn anything from YOU Salvos, Only certain parts of this botting lark are tricky. But I think we all know that a bot is a computer program where one can control Eve and perform tasks (looting. mining, ratting,) without being at keyboard. I didn’t bother to do research on how the Bot actually works and assumed it watched local in a certain way. I turned out to be wrong. Please do not associate our names because I am nothing like you, I am fine with being wrong and I am fine with someone correcting me. I have since taken the time to Google “Eve Online Bots” and I am not impressed, Everyone and their uncle is having a go at creating an Eve bot, they’ve even got a series of well used forums which allow the botters to communicate and refine their design of bot software. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 1:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1470 "2018-02-20T13:08:23Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > I am fine with being wrong and I am fine with someone correcting me. Yet you ignored me when I did so. You dont know jack about bots, how they operate or botters. The questions you ask, and the proposals you make, prove that. > [@Aaron](#): > > I didn’t bother to do research on how the Bot actually works and assumed Nuff said. I have done research. I know. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 1:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1471 "2018-02-20T13:10:19Z")
Obviously you can’t read what I just typed so I am going to continue ignoring you as best I can. Just because I dealt with the “how bots see local” wrong this does not mean I cant read and learn. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 1:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1472 "2018-02-20T13:12:17Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > Obviously you can’t read what I just typed so I am going to continue ignoring you as best I can. Just because I dealt with the “how bots see local” wrong this does not mean I cant read and learn. You never bothered to think or investigate how bots work before you participated as if you had, Explaining bots to you, has been like explaining the internet to a 90yr old for the first time. You “assume” you know, but you dont. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 1:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1473 "2018-02-20T13:12:29Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Nuff said. > > I have done research. I know. Someone mentioned to you before that it is silly to only quote part of what I said to suit your points. Why not quote all of what I said and have an honest convo? I’ll tell you why because you are incapable of having a coherent convo. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 1:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1474 "2018-02-20T13:13:50Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > > [@Aaron](#): > > > > Obviously you can’t read what I just typed so I am going to continue ignoring you as best I can. Just because I dealt with the “how bots see local” wrong this does not mean I cant read and learn. > > You never bothered to think or investigate how bots work before you participated as if you had, > > Explaining bots to you, has been like explaining the internet to a 90yr old for the first time. You “assume” you know, but you dont. Yet the moment someone other than you took some time to explain it to me, I accepted it and revised my opinions. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 1:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1475 "2018-02-20T13:16:02Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > Yet the moment someone other than you took some time to explain it to me, I accepted it and revised my opinions. Who cares who explained it? I told you your view was wrong already 20posts ago. His post just confirmed me as correct. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 1:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1476 "2018-02-20T13:20:51Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > > [@Aaron](#): > > > > Yet the moment someone other than you took some time to explain it to me, I accepted it and revised my opinions. > > Who cares who explained it? > > I told you your view was wrong already 20posts ago. > His post just confirmed me as correct. Such a shame we can’t ignore people as well as the old forums. I would ignore every word you type. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538.md?page=72) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538.md?page=74)