# Eve Bots - are they a bad thing, is CCP complicit in their use? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [October 27, 2017, 10:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538 "2017-10-27T10:09:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 75
**Author:** ![Baba\_Ji](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/baba_ji/32/36487_2.png) [@Baba\_Ji](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Baba_Ji)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 12:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1498 "2018-02-23T00:18:32Z")
It might be fun for a while until it gets boring. I’m not being paid to take care of a problem I didn’t create. If I chose to pay a company for the enjoyment of a game I sure as hell won’t be taking out their trash. Honestly I think you have it all backwards in every part of your post I reply to. What in the holy ■■■■! > [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > Maybe the inflated PCU caused by botters is more important than dealing with the ongoing theft from every player and the company they pay to play as legitimate players. Your first part insinuates complicity and is followed up but a rational supported by the reason for complicity. Next you say players should step up. Does that mean if you refuse to communicate and that refusal gets your ships destroyed you won’t mind? Because I’d like to think you aren’t saying that,while being personally excluded. Transferring the responsibility. Really? If the quote from you in my post is even close to real,what will a report do? Let the scales be balanced by a priority that is based on business rather than what is right? So I ask you. Am I speaking to a person that knows the difference or are you so held tight to this game you would drown with it while smiling? Actually by your posting,I already know the answer. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 1:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1499 "2018-02-23T01:27:52Z")
Not sure if you have a brain injury or just a problem with the English language. > Does that mean if you refuse to communicate and that refusal gets your ships destroyed you won’t mind? You keep referring to something that will never EVER be a part of Eve. CCP isn’t going to allow “player / employees” to fly around New Eden in completely invulnerable ships. Think of it this way - CCP employs 10 people to go and try to find and identify botters, gives them totally invulnerable, invisible (to local) ships to fly around New Eden gathering intel - On anyone they choose and passing it on to whoever they choose. Forget hunting bots, I’m looking for Supers and Rorquals to kill. I’m talking about actual players hunting down and killing bots - Not some fantasy thing you dreamt up that will never happen. What do you know the difference between? I know players have the ability and tools to hunt down and kill botters - I know CCP will never allow completely invulnerable players/ships to freely roam around New Eden. I’m good, I know my suggestion is realistic and only needs players to get the ball rolling. * * * > If the quote from you in my post is even close to real,what will a report do? Another nice little sentence suggesting you have no knowledge of how the game actually works. Select player, show info, go to drop down menu, select REPORT BOT - A message is sent to the security team who will then look into the named player. Unfortunately due to human nature the security team receive a lot of false reports (I don’t like this guy so I’ll report him as a bot) but the security team do investigate reports and many have led to bans - We just don’t get any feedback on reports we send so if you see the guy you reported still doing his thing it can become discouraging. And yes, I’ll stick around Eve to the bitter end - I love the game and the community that goes along with it… I’m in my eleventh year of Eve and have no plans on leaving any time soon… NB; This is my last response to you - My only suggestion for you, Go learn something about the game, talk to people who know more about the game than you think you do. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 5:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1500 "2018-02-23T05:36:31Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > Why not summarize it this way: > > 1. Get better at removing botting via some magical process. This is a new low, even for you. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > To sum up options presented in the thread regarding bots (in no particular order): > > 1 Implement mini-games that bots cannot complete. > > 2 Implement “punkbuster”/“warden” -style client based bot detection/prevention. > > 3 Increase the Security Team’s staff. > > 4 Implement a “heat map”, (ingame or in MER) so players can target regions with historically high bot rates. > > 5 Ban botters on first offense. > > 6 Permanently remove extractor capacity on accounts once caught for botting. > > 7 Implement a more efficient data crunching system on CCP side to flag potential botters. > > 8 Implement methods that recognize when a character/accounts activity levels are humanely unlikely/impossible without it being botting/account-sharing. > > 9 Incentivize using 2FA, either by carrot or stick, to help prevent account hacking/hijacking. > > 10 Do nothing, cos making changes will only encourage botters to adapt. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 6:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1501 "2018-02-23T06:16:52Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Implement “punkbuster”/“warden” -style client based bot detection/prevention. The problem with this kind of system is as always, that they are very intrusive and I really don’t want a game to basically scan my whole computer as this is nothing any software should be doing. Also this just does not work, because it is relatively simple to jail an application to prevent such access and the botters will be the first to implement this. So what you will end up with is that you have some new intrusive garbage malware-like addition in the client which only affects honest players, good job! ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 6:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1502 "2018-02-23T06:18:18Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > This is a new low, even for you. Actually, if you thought about your bullet points you’d realize that generally they are pretty bad. 1. Punish non-botters because of botters. 2. Seems to me this was already discussed and discarded, but hey maybe I’m wrong. 3. Yeah, that’s a keeper. 4. Nope, gives away information to botters as well as players. 5. Okay, fine with me. 6. If you are banning them this is useless. 7. Again…sounds lovely, but how? And if you do work on this you have to STFU about it so botters do not have an easier time adapting. 8. Works for a while. 9. We already have 2FA, but I suppose we can make it mandatory. 10. Nobody is suggesting this. I’ll give you 3/10, or an F. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 6:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1503 "2018-02-23T06:23:46Z")
Does anyone know what the crucial evidence is that ccp uses to determine that a bot is in control of a toon? ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 6:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1504 "2018-02-23T06:30:06Z")
I have no idea, and my guess is CCP won’t tell us because that would be giving bot programmers useful information. As I noted [here](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1480?u=teckos_pech), giving out too much information makes it easier for people to game the system. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 6:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1505 "2018-02-23T06:35:18Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > Actually, if you thought about your bullet points you’d realize that generally they are pretty bad. They are not “my” bullet points. They are the options put forth in this threadnaught. I merely listed them for the benefit of those who wont read it all. The 10th was your input: - 10 Do nothing, cos making changes will only encourage botters to adapt. Now you have added expecting some magic to fix botting. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 6:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1506 "2018-02-23T06:42:21Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > The 10th was your input: > > 10 Do nothing, cos making changes will only encourage botters to adapt. I never advocated doing nothing, that was you reading way between the lines of my posts. Way…way between the lines. Frankly you should go sit in the corner for a while after writing that and contemplate why you are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 6:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1507 "2018-02-23T06:47:31Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > I never advocated doing nothing, that was you reading way between the lines of my posts. Way…way between the lines. You advocated doing nothing, because it would cause bots to adapt. Your other input has been merely throwing peanuts from the gallery. Its always been typical of you, when you want to stonewall any and all change, which I suppose has always been your purpose here on these boards. I’m familiar with your methods over the years. This just happened to be a new low as you also falsely attribute the options in the list to me. * * * Prove me wrong. Put your money where your mouth is. **State clearly and concisely, what you think CCP should do to address the bot issue in EVE.** * * * Inb4: “No, I wont, because bots will then know it and adapt hurdhur”. Inb4: “I dont have a single silver bullet” Inb4: All manner of other excuses that in your mind exempt you from actually thinking about the issue and contributing. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 6:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1508 "2018-02-23T06:49:24Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > You advocated doing nothing, because it would cause bots to adapt. Nope, and you cannot quote anything that supports this. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 6:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1509 "2018-02-23T06:49:57Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > Nope, and you cannot quote anything that supports this. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Prove me wrong. Put your money where your mouth is. > > **State clearly and concisely, what you think CCP should do to address the bot issue in EVE.** > > Inb4: “No, I wont, because bots will then know it and adapt hurdhur”. > > Inb4: “I dont have a single silver bullet” > > Inb4: All manner of other excuses that in your mind exempt you from actually thinking about the issue and contributing. Show us your hand. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 6:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1510 "2018-02-23T06:50:28Z")
Show me a quote where I said or even implied “Do nothing.” You can’t. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 6:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1511 "2018-02-23T06:51:04Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > Show me a quote where I said or even implied “Do nothing.” > > You can’t. Its been implicit in all your posts. Prove me wrong. Put your money where your mouth is. State clearly and concisely, what you think CCP should do to address the bot issue in EVE. Inb4: “No, I wont, because bots will then know it and adapt hurdhur”. Inb4: “I dont have a single silver bullet” Inb4: All manner of other excuses that in your mind exempt you from actually thinking about the issue and contributing. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 6:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1512 "2018-02-23T06:51:54Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Its been implicit in all your posts. That is the best you got…then you got nothing. As I noted, it is what you read into my posts, not what I actually wrote. This is your problem not mine. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 6:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1513 "2018-02-23T06:52:32Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > then you got nothing Its you that has nothing. **State clearly and concisely, what you think CCP should do to address the bot issue in EVE.** Show us what you got. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 6:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1514 "2018-02-23T06:54:48Z")
Salvos, you have claimed I have argued for doing nothing. I contend that is not true. Either retract it or show us a quote. Oh and changing the topic…that is an indicator you actually have nothing to back up your claim. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 6:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1515 "2018-02-23T06:56:58Z")
I am confident CCP has a good method to detect bots. If we look at how eve works; players log on to a type of terminal services session and get remote viewing and control of an instance of Eve running on CCP’s servers. With this in mind we know that CCP’s servers receive data such as authentication data and mouse and keyboard data. So mouse and keystroke analysis must be part of what they use to identify a bot. Perhaps there is a facility where security staff can view the session from the users point of view? Structured querying of a database will forever be a powerful tool within any business, used correctly security staff should be able to identify when a player does something which a human wouldn’t do. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 6:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1516 "2018-02-23T06:57:27Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > Salvos, you have claimed I have argued for doing nothing. I contend that is not true. Either retract it or show us a quote. > [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > Get better at removing botting via some magical process. Now answer the question: **State clearly and concisely, what you think CCP should do to address the bot issue in EVE.** Show us what you got. Stop hiding. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 7:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1517 "2018-02-23T07:01:27Z")
As for what CCP should do…honest answer? I don’t know. I don’t have nearly enough information to formulate a serious reply. Neither do you. Lets recapitulate on what we have: 1. A dumb bot that CCP apparently missed. 2. Some RMT alts in Jita. That’s it. From these few tiny pieces of chicken you have built up not just a chicken, but an entire flock of chickens. You have postulated “solutions” without even any idea if they’d work or their impact on non-botting players. You ran off for dozens of posts about how awesome Gevlon Goblin was, and yet it turns out the guy is a completely blinkered moron who trusts a t-statistic more than he trusts his own eyes. What should CCP do? I don’t know. Would increasing the staff for hunting bots be a good idea? Sure, probably. Having harsher penalties on those who bot? Okay, sure. Beyond that it is all just a bunch of stupid forum masturbation. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538.md?page=74) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538.md?page=76)