# Eve Bots - are they a bad thing, is CCP complicit in their use? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [October 27, 2017, 10:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538 "2017-10-27T10:09:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 82
**Author:** ![The\_Dunning\_Kruger](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_dunning_kruger/32/414724_2.png) [@The\_Dunning\_Kruger](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Dunning_Kruger)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 9:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1640 "2018-04-11T09:55:33Z")
> [@Phollocks](#): > > Out of interest, do you know any programming at all? Or how colours are represented digitally? Do you have any first hand experience of this kind of thing? He doesn’t. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > How about also increasing the number of discs from 3 to 5? > > Does that not make it exponentially more difficult for a bot? No. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 9:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1641 "2018-04-11T09:58:20Z")
> [@The\_Dunning\_Kruger](#): > > No. So are saying you can program a bot to align 5 discs with random orientation of a section of an image, so that the complete image matches that of say one out of a database of 500 images which are randomly changed periodically by CCP, before submitting it? How long would it take your bot to do so? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Dunning\_Kruger](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_dunning_kruger/32/414724_2.png) [@The\_Dunning\_Kruger](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Dunning_Kruger)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 10:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1642 "2018-04-11T10:00:04Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > How long would it take your bot to do so? Do you want the answer in fractions of a second, or cpu cycles? Either way I can devise an algorithm that solves your puzzle thousands of times per second. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 10:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1643 "2018-04-11T10:05:26Z")
> [@The\_Dunning\_Kruger](#): > > Do you want the answer in fractions of a second Whichever unit of time you prefer will be fine. How long would it take you to program such a bot, and compile a database of the potential unique random images used in the 5section disc system? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Dunning\_Kruger](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_dunning_kruger/32/414724_2.png) [@The\_Dunning\_Kruger](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Dunning_Kruger)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 10:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1644 "2018-04-11T10:14:12Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Whichever unit of time you prefer will be fine. I could only give you an estimate at most, like I did with > [@The\_Dunning\_Kruger](#): > > Either way I can devise an algorithm that solves your puzzle thousands of times per second. Without knowing in detail how the algorithm would look like, how it is optimized both code-wise and by the compiler and on what hardware it ends up running, it’s impossible to give more than a rough estimate. But it will be easily thousands of times a second running on a toaster, even when brute forcing every possible combination, which would be by far the worst solution. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > How long would it take you to program such a bot A few hours. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > and compile a database of the potential unique random images used in the 5section disc system Why would I pre-seed? Solving it on-the-fly isn’t hard. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 10:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1645 "2018-04-11T10:15:49Z")
How would you program the bot to align 5 discs for a complete image that is unique and has never been seen before? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Dunning\_Kruger](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_dunning_kruger/32/414724_2.png) [@The\_Dunning\_Kruger](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Dunning_Kruger)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 10:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1646 "2018-04-11T10:18:11Z")
Christ Salvos, read up on programming and then maybe you can start asking questions that make sense. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 10:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1647 "2018-04-11T10:22:33Z")
> [@The\_Dunning\_Kruger](#): > > Christ Salvos, read up on programming and then maybe you can start asking questions that make sense. Does that mean you are unwilling or unable to answer? * * * For example, lets say the 5discs comprise the randomly generated result portrait of an EVE avatar face complete with background, including angle of the image, lighting/filter and other elements already extant in the avatar creation/portrait system, and all twisting of character features the avatar/portrait system enables. Are you trying to tell me that you can program a bot to align those 5 discs to match up such a random, unique image, everytime? And in a matter of hours? Are you trying to tell me your PC has the processing capacity to complete that task in fractions of a second? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Dunning\_Kruger](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_dunning_kruger/32/414724_2.png) [@The\_Dunning\_Kruger](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Dunning_Kruger)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 10:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1648 "2018-04-11T10:35:41Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Does that mean you are unwilling or unable to answer? You are trying to answer complex questions about a topic you don’t even understand the basics of. It makes it impossible to answer, because your question is a incoherent mess to begin with. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Are you trying to tell me that you can program a bot to align those 5 discs to match up such a random, unique image, everytime? Every computer science student can achieve that, unless he’s a complete moron. The entry level tasks we got back in the day were harder than solving your puzzle is. Meaning all your question shows is your complete lack of knowledge about the matter. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Are you trying to tell me your PC has the processing capacity to complete that task in fractions of a second? How much processing power do you think modern PCs have? I think you’re still stuck in the 80s. ---
**Author:** ![Phollocks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/phollocks/32/160954_2.png) [@Phollocks](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Phollocks)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 10:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1649 "2018-04-11T10:58:17Z")
If you executed it properly, this image idea could work. Knowing that the difference (in RGB values) between neighbouring pixels in any given image will be within a small range, it would be pretty easy to match the pixels around the edge of the circle with its “correct” neighbour with reasonable accuracy. So in your minigame, you could then (for example) eliminate/modify/whatever the pixels around the circumference in a way that they can’t be so easily matched. Another thing would be to consider elements in the image that could give away its orientation. Lines, for example (e.g. the horizon, the edge of a building, etc). So you’d then have to be more particular about what kind of images you use and/or distort the image in such a way that these elements are less obvious and/or whatever else. … and so it goes. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 11:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1650 "2018-04-11T11:31:24Z")
> [@Phollocks](#): > > If you executed it properly, this image idea could work. The existing avatar image process that CCP has could provide an infinite amount of random images. Images of ships (also in different skins), structures can also be sourced/rotated in nigh infinite combinations. > [@Phollocks](#): > > it would be pretty easy to match the pixels around the edge of the circle with its “correct” neighbour with reasonable accuracy. Perhaps, but the bot would only have one shot at it as submitted, before the next popup is another minigame of a different sort with different challenges. Repeated failures would cue CCPs suspicion of a bot, delay the bot, and the solution cant be submitted at an inhuman quickness (no human can solve it it in miliseconds,) > [@Phollocks](#): > > you could then (for example) eliminate/modify/whatever the pixels around the circumference in a way that they can’t be so easily matched. Blurring and or random RGB colors on the periphery of the disc as a border or example, to prevent bots matching same colors across the gap. > [@The\_Dunning\_Kruger](#): > > I think you’re still stuck in the 80s. I think you are full of ■■■■, and are just making things up. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Dunning\_Kruger](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_dunning_kruger/32/414724_2.png) [@The\_Dunning\_Kruger](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Dunning_Kruger)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 11:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1651 "2018-04-11T11:50:55Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > I think you are full of ■■■■, and are just making things up. You sure know, with your non-existent knowledge about IT. You’d make a great politician. Those also believe they’re know-it-alls when they know absolutely nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 11:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1652 "2018-04-11T11:52:31Z")
> [@The\_Dunning\_Kruger](#): > > You sure know, with your non-existent knowledge about IT. You’d make a great politician. The irony is strong. You cant address the proposal, cos you are just pretending to know squat, so you resort to this instead. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Dunning\_Kruger](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_dunning_kruger/32/414724_2.png) [@The\_Dunning\_Kruger](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Dunning_Kruger)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 11:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1653 "2018-04-11T11:55:33Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > You cant address the proposal, cos you are just pretending to know squat, so you resort to this instead. I can’t address it without explaining to you in detail the basics first. And then more basics and then we slowly move on, until you finally have barely enough understanding to _maybe_ grasp it. If you seriously expect me to waste tens of hours of my time explaining something to you just so you _maybe_ understand the actual answer I’d give you, you’re a total moron. Same thing that you expect me to work for free on a problem I have zero interest in, just to prove something to you. That’s not worth my time. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 11:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1654 "2018-04-11T11:56:47Z")
I pushed you to explain, and you failed at the limit. You are just pretending to know things you dont. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Dunning\_Kruger](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_dunning_kruger/32/414724_2.png) [@The\_Dunning\_Kruger](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Dunning_Kruger)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 11:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1655 "2018-04-11T11:57:24Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > You are just pretending to know things you dont. You just described yourself perfectly. Want some advice? Stop talking about things you don’t understand. I’m done here. Not going to argue with a wall of severely limited intellectual capabilities. ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 11:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1656 "2018-04-11T11:58:50Z")
I would quit, delete EVE and overwrite my HD twice to remove any and all trace if CCP ever implements an active mini game while I’m playing. Not an idle threat… ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 12:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1657 "2018-04-11T12:01:57Z")
> [@The\_Dunning\_Kruger](#): > > Stop talking about things you don’t understand. Oh, the irony again. Even multi-billion IT corporations have trouble developing facial recognition software, let alone having to align 5 disparate, bordered discs to align an image of a face it has never seen before. As is clear from your name, your modus operandi is claiming you know more than you do, and are ignorant of what you do not. Frankly, not is it clear you are trolling, as you have to resort to ad hominem when faced with a proposal, but you are also clearly yourself ignorant of what is involved, or you could answer the questions readily and easily. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Dunning\_Kruger](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_dunning_kruger/32/414724_2.png) [@The\_Dunning\_Kruger](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Dunning_Kruger)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 12:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1658 "2018-04-11T12:07:43Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Even multi-billion IT corporations have trouble developing facial recognition software Clearly you’re not on top of the game. 10 years ago? Yeah. Today? The status quo about 3 years ago was that AI is better at recognizing the face of a person than the persons mother is. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > let alone having to align 5 disparate, bordered discs to align an image of a face it has never seen before. That is not the minigame you proposed. Nice try moving the goal posts, but unlike you, I’m not stupid. I notice. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > your modus operandi is claiming you know more than you do, and are ignorant of what you do not. Again, you described yourself perfectly. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > but you are also clearly yourself ignorant of what is involved, or you could answer the questions readily and easily. Ask a rocket scientist a detailed question about how the rocket works and expect him to explain it to you when you don’t even understand chemistry 101. He can’t, because you lack all the knowledge required. You’re asking me to do the same thing, just about a different topic. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 12:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538/1659 "2018-04-11T12:29:00Z")
Ladies and gentlemen, Dunning-Kruger in full effect, right above. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538.md?page=81) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-bots-are-they-a-bad-thing-is-ccp-complicit-in-their-use/34538.md?page=83)