# Eve Concurrent Average Online under 20k now :( **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [August 22, 2019, 10:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056 "2019-08-22T22:43:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Mark\_Marconi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mark_marconi/32/150029_2.png) [@Mark\_Marconi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mark_Marconi)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 11:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056/511 "2019-09-11T11:30:23Z")
I spent years living in WH space but I think hi-sec is the only part of the game. Yeah that sums up the validity of your opinions. ---
**Author:** ![Shana\_SkyWalker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shana_skywalker/32/153029_2.png) [@Shana\_SkyWalker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shana_SkyWalker)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 11:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056/512 "2019-09-11T11:47:59Z")
LMFAO all these Null characters trying to make High Sec into Null Sec!! Not all of us want to PVP anymore, some of us have spent ten years doing that and cba with it anymore. Some of us just want to play the game our way as it’s ya know a sandbox!! @Cassian_Anders don’t tell me what to do. This game is a sandbox - i don’t tell you what to do apart from this: Go f\*ck yourself 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 2:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056/513 "2019-09-11T14:37:48Z")
> [@Shana\_SkyWalker](#): > > all these Null characters trying to make High Sec into Null Sec!! But I though NS was the new WH… ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 2:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056/514 "2019-09-11T14:55:51Z")
Obligatory meme ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/2X/2/28e293ba3cf8a17c5968b0278d35382128b518ac.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 4:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056/515 "2019-09-11T16:03:02Z")
From another thread but on topic: > [@September Release - General Feedback](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/september-release-general-feedback/188890/255): > > > After looking at player numbers last night USTZ and talking to other players, does anyone want to bet on the date when EVE player count is less than 10,000 during prime time? > > This is sad for a game I love to play! > > No, because then there will be a lower standard and some would say, we can have a better game with less than 10000. > > I think, and forgive me to mix it up… the right questions would be: > > What is the minimum sustainable concurrency? both in game (enough for New Eden to be enjoyable so it reverts the decline rate) and out there (min req for CCP to still make $) > At present rate of decline, how long will both reach a break point? > > Because internally, we have already reached those numbers but people still have not figured them out. > We have reached a state of affairs which dictates a minimum requirement for a group to survive in Null. That minimum was not important before BO, simply because survival was not directly dependent, to put it somehow. > > What is that number? > How many pilots are needed for an entity to survive in Null nowdays? > I have visited those numbers and of course! there is a bar to everything and exceptions to the rule. > But the closer I get to survival minimum, the more it becomes similar to donutbrella numbers. > > We have to account that and calculate a minimum of concurrency for the game to be healthy and/or balanced in terms of enjoyability, which is now a complete mess as lack of traffic / content in Null began metastasis the whole system. Not easily predictable. > > As for the break point, well it’s subject to speculation and stupidity plays a role but it must be a known number within CCP’s desks. They know that number, they know the risk posed by the decline rate, they know the edge. I suspect that number must be around 50% of today’s current, simply because they don’t look to be in panic mode or they are good damn actors. Which means, by the moment it reaches a 8-10K 36Hr average during weekdays, the break point would have been reached. > > At that moment, the entrance doors will be exhibiting chains and padlocks the next Friday morning. > And at present decline rate, with the acceleration derived from BO and what’s yet to be seen from cyno changes, we have either 4 or 8 months left of EVE as we know it. > > Why the gap? 4 Months if winter wasn’t upon us and some miracle reverts at least the decline rate, not the totals. In other words, and as the TiS CSM meeting guys said : “something good better happen to EVE”. > But we do not know of anything good coming, not good enough for the winter (expansion) release to make the urged change. > > So, you could count on 6 more months average left of EVE Online, if at least the decline rate is not miraculously stopped. I still think it must be reverted: The effects of chaos in the decline rate must be reverted ASAP. A portrait of the decline, given the time of day of my choice: 2:45pm EVE Time, which is not within USTZ and not the daily max. Sort of a stable moment of the day… here is the decline: Between today and yesterday: 2.16% Yesterday vs the day before (Sep release): -4.01% Today vs 1 weeks ago: -7.52% Today vs 2 weeks ago: -10.81% But in order for that decline rate not to be contaminated, we still have to look through a wider scope. ---
**Author:** ![Abruzzi\_Oskold](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/abruzzi_oskold/32/279259_2.png) [@Abruzzi\_Oskold](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Abruzzi_Oskold)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 4:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056/516 "2019-09-11T16:22:10Z")
There are still more playing now than when I started this game. I’m not sold on the idea that the bottom is falling out. It could be that Eve is just losing some of the fat. The game might actually starting improving if CCP started working toward a more inclusive game environment like it was 15 years ago, before all the more casual Hi Sec players left . ---
**Author:** ![SirxAmoc](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sirxamoc/32/453692_2.png) [@SirxAmoc](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/SirxAmoc)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 4:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056/517 "2019-09-11T16:26:58Z")
How would you like to be the Corp Exec that looks at CCP Hilmar’s resume and leans over and says to him, “So let me get this straight, you think it was good to start with 40 thousand plus players and leave the company when you reduced the player base to 5 thousand?” I really hope CCP Hilmar brings EVE back from the brink, but what I have seen so far does not have me convinced. I will give him credit should he pull us out of this nose dive! ---
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 5:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056/518 "2019-09-11T17:15:11Z")
I never thought it’s up to him. As I’ve explained, the break point numbers exist and have not been reached as of today. I doubt the load of the company can be laid on a single individual. He is just some sort of PR. EVE has potential to become even more special for way more people. The issues are not being attended individually because they are hard to tackle that way, requiring an expanding manpower, an exponential manpower. So, simple solutions must be applied. Things like flipping a comms switch in an instance. In this case, the proposed solution failed as it gained momentum. Too much of it. We must agree, it was wrong and something must be done quickly!. It is possible, yes! There are a myriad of switches but as long as the small guys have no hope, nothing great to look up for, devs and admins will keep on throwing disposable lifesavers to the new blood, which can never engage, as there is nothing remotely promising for them. You think getting in a new environment (game) is alluring when the goal is to become part of what’s going on in Null? It’s an example and biased because for me the ultimate EVE is the creation and survival of what you can build with friends, which can only happen in Null and WH. Others may like HS, IDK. ---
**Author:** ![Agrikaan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/agrikaan/32/417416_2.png) [@Agrikaan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Agrikaan)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 6:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056/519 "2019-09-11T18:08:51Z")
Well, I remember cheering when the PCU reached 5000 sometime in 2004, up from 3500… Space was very empty back then. I could move a new BS from Yulai to Fountain, 50 jumps 40 in Null, withough seeing a single pilot. However, it’s now mid-September 2019, and there’s less than 20k EUTZ prime time. Lower than usual I guess, perhaps due to the cyno changes and krabbing being discouraged and/or changed. Which was the goal I suppose… But I also noticed yesterday as I went through 12 LowSec systems; all of them were empty… That hasn’t happened before. Well, unless Local was broken again… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![bigfatbird](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bigfatbird/32/145787_2.png) [@bigfatbird](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/bigfatbird)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 7:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056/520 "2019-09-11T19:07:37Z")
That’s right, WH space is safer AND has better rewards. ---
**Author:** ![Ronnie\_Rose](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ronnie_rose/32/446230_2.png) [@Ronnie\_Rose](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ronnie_Rose)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 8:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056/521 "2019-09-11T20:14:30Z")
Isn’t CCP moving into a new building? Would that be enough to show things are hopping with EVE? ---
**Author:** ![Buoytender\_Bob](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/buoytender_bob/32/374377_2.png) [@Buoytender\_Bob](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Buoytender_Bob)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 8:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056/522 "2019-09-11T20:33:42Z")
A solid, strong building built like a bunker…hey, wait a minute! 😉🤔 ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 9:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056/523 "2019-09-11T21:49:53Z")
> [@Shana\_SkyWalker](#): > > You want to increase concurrent count… You make high sec as safe as possible for new players so they have a staging ground to progress on to low/null Making it safe has made everyone bored. When players are quitting it’s not because they are being shot at. The vast VAST majority of players quit before they encounter any pvp. And the only correlation between getting shot at and player retention is that players that have been killed illegally are sticking around longer. > [@Shana\_SkyWalker](#): > > Not all of us want to PVP anymore, some of us have spent ten years doing that and cba with it anymore. Some of us just want to play the game our way as it’s ya know a sandbox!! Does not mean what you think it does. ---
**Author:** ![Kal\_Ray](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kal_ray/32/155562_2.png) [@Kal\_Ray](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kal_Ray)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 12:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056/524 "2019-09-12T00:05:39Z")
According to EVE-Offline, the maximum player count today was 20,066. The last time the 24hr player count was under 20,000 was December 2005. Some far-fetched speculation, that even I don’t believe will happen: - CCP starts adding bots that look like real players and even engage in small talk. - The last two real human players roam New Eden trying to kill each other… ---
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 12:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056/526 "2019-09-12T00:16:25Z")
> [@Kal\_Ray](#): > > Some far-fetched speculation, that even I don’t believe will happen: > > - CCP starts adding bots that look like real players and even engage in small talk. > - The last two real human players roam New Eden trying to kill each other… Blackouts, real ones. Is what I would do to hinder the numbers… servers down and stuff (unknown issues, DDOS) and tons of SP to “compensate”. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 12:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056/527 "2019-09-12T00:35:52Z")
> [@Kal\_Ray](#): > > The last time the 24hr player count was under 20,000 was December 2005. Or you know, a year ago, or two years ago, 12th July 2016, 17k 24h average Hell, 19th Nov 2015, I can find an 18k average. Lets not go inventing false statistics in a head frenzy shall we. ---
**Author:** ![Kal\_Ray](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kal_ray/32/155562_2.png) [@Kal\_Ray](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kal_Ray)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 12:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056/528 "2019-09-12T00:50:52Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Or you know, a year ago, or two years ago, 12th July 2016, 17k 24h average I was referring to the 24 hour **maximum** which usually occurs around 19:00 UTC time. E.G.: ![count](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/9/0/908731b9fdf9111523272b8e042c5f9c38f78a61.jpeg) For July 12, 2016 the 24 hour maximum was around 27,988. This does not make me happy. EvE is one of my favorite games. I just don’t know how it will all pan out. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 1:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056/529 "2019-09-12T01:10:58Z")
> [@Kal\_Ray](#): > > According to EVE-Offline, the maximum player count today was 20,066. And today wasn’t under the maximum then either. So quit stressing out. Edit. What you probably haven’t bothered looking at is the off peak pcu. Even in EVE’s heyday of 2011 this was at around 21-22k most days, 26-27k on weekends. That is now 15k most days, yes it’s down, but what we are actually seeing is not as sharp a peak at a particular time of day, which gives a strong indication that the number change we are seeing was a few real players with a large swarm of alts in the EU timezone. Not a dramatic murdering of their overall player count. Now I’d love to see a graph showing active accounts/players over time for the last year, my guess is that number is going closer to 1. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 2:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056/530 "2019-09-12T02:19:26Z")
Just gonna toss out that tonight, Wed. 9/11, checked a few times. From 7pm Eastern to 10pm Eastern. Generally considered pretty prime time for global gaming. The numbers ranged from 12,416 at 7pm to 13,221 at 10pm. For comparison, when I played World of Tanks some years back, people started to freak out when the _North American_ server (not the global count) starting falling below 23,000 during the same time slot. It’s not ‘summer slump’ any more. It’s also not the knell of doom, because the numbers go up and down and even 12-13k is still a fair number of players. (Well until you discount the bots and alphas, that is.) But it’s a giant “alert” sign to CCP that they really, really need to stop pretending they know how to design games. It’s time to do some serious reflection on why people play EVE, what they get out of it, and how to increase the value they get from it. CCP is mostly just coasting now on people who’ve been paying subs for so long it seems like a waste to stop… basically ‘sunk cost fallacy’ in action. If they don’t know how to do it (and they don’t)… then they need to get some direction that does. ---
**Author:** ![Kemhotep](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kemhotep/32/317088_2.png) [@Kemhotep](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kemhotep)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 3:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056/531 "2019-09-12T03:15:54Z")
This is what you get if you only add visual and cosmetic updates to a game for a couple of years. I hope we dip below 15k, even 10k. “Walking in stations” all over again. CCP never learns. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056.md?page=22) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056.md?page=24)