# Eve Concurrent Average Online under 20k now :( **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [August 22, 2019, 10:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056 "2019-08-22T22:43:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 10:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056/643 "2019-09-13T22:10:59Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > Let’s also not forget that the massive influx of new players and old returning players because of the wardec changes are right around the corner. > > They will storm the servers every minute now… > > About to happen… > > I will sit somewhere in a corner of this thread and wait They will come … they must come. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 10:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056/644 "2019-09-13T22:12:36Z")
> [@Solecist\_Project](#): > > The current PCU reflects the _actual playercount_ far more than it did pre-blackout. The failscading is going on since June already, and there is not a single sign it is about to change for the better. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 10:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056/645 "2019-09-13T22:16:42Z")
As I said … in theory it looks good, in practise - for the long term - it’s going to be bad. I’ve read that article the day it came out. Without that article I wouldn’t be able to say that it’s going to be bad. ---
**Author:** ![Circumstantial\_Evidence](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/circumstantial_evidence/32/399551_2.png) [@Circumstantial\_Evidence](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Circumstantial_Evidence)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2019, 4:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056/647 "2019-09-14T04:34:47Z")
> [@Solecist\_Project](#): > > in theory it looks good, in practise - for the long term - it’s going to be bad. Emphasis added below: > That might sound like CCP Games is going too soft on its players, but the idea is to simulate what Pétursson calls EVE Online’s “magic moment”—that turning point where a person goes from being a noob to a true EVE player. **"If you lose your ship and you understand the context of why you lost it** and it makes you come back stronger, that is the moment," Pétursson says. Sounds great, short and long term. ---
**Author:** ![March\_rabbit](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/march_rabbit/32/453160_2.png) [@March\_rabbit](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/March_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2019, 7:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056/648 "2019-09-14T07:06:49Z")
> [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > Are you saying bots are not logged in 24/7/365? Of course they are. You really think CCP guys are so stupid they can not detect these long activities and need months to find bots? That’s what Kurana Rizeh has meant with “naive”. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2019, 8:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056/649 "2019-09-14T08:47:30Z")
> [@March\_rabbit](#): > > You really think CCP guys are so stupid they can not detect these long activities and need months to find bots? 🤔 Well, that seems like a trick question. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2019, 10:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056/650 "2019-09-14T10:50:09Z")
You really don’t seem to understand what this is doing: It’s like telling a child that it’s not tragic it got hurt on the knee, but _worse_, because they’re adults. It’s like CCP assuming the role of a parent. It sets a horrible precedent, where they could get the idea that this is needed in other parts of the game as well. You’re not looking at this from the right perspective. All you see is what they say, happily eating the marketing, and you’re not thinking this through at all. I’ll help you: The customers are adults. CCP assumes these adults need someone to tell them that the booboo they had isn’t all that bad. THAT is the reality of this situation. It’s either not going to work, or it’s going to “help” keeping adults around that aren’t really mentally fit for this game. **Adults, who need to be told that their loss in a video game isn’t all that bad at all.** If you don’t understand how seriously worrying this is, then you might as well be one of those adults who isn’t actually an adult. You know … people who act self responsibly, people who know how the world works, people who can deal with loss, etc. etc. I understand that treating adults like idiots nowadays is apparently the norm, because apparently these adults are all idiots and no one realizes anymore because idiots wouldn’t notice, but holy ■■■■, this is absolutely nuts. How you can not understand the weirdness of this, and the possible negative outcome, is just as much worrying as CCP believing that this is a good idea for the long term. Well, I guess for them it is, because keeping immature children in adults bodies as customers is likely going to improve income. But hey … don’t listen to someone who can actually work through things and write them out. Better just use Ignorance and only believe what you yourself think about it, which is _exactly that which you have been told to think and not a single thought more_. That’s what you are doing here. Congratulations. 👍 ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2019, 11:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056/651 "2019-09-14T11:15:54Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > when I played World of Tanks some years back, people started to freak out when the _North American_ server (not the global count) starting falling below 23,000 Of course, World of Tanks hasn’t died… There is perhaps something EVE could learn from WOT, and lately I’ve been thinking maybe I’ll go home. I came here from Tanks, because I kept running into carebears there who were fleeing EVE - in one game they mine the rocks, in the other game they just hide behind the rocks. Regardless, the combat in tanks is a lot better, and easier to find. I like that EVE has an economy and diplomacy and player interaction, but sometimes I just want a good fight - and EVE doesn’t provide that so much. Indeed, people tend to gloat about “there’s no such thing as a fair fight, if there’s a fair fight then someone made a mistake, blablablabla” - perhaps that is a design flaw. I don’t think I’m the only one who wants to just have some fun and pew pew… but the last time I was in Tama someone was dropping a fleet of battle rorqual smartbombers on everything, and maybe the game could use some improved PvP content. People often say “Why don’t you get out of high sec and stop ganking miners?” Well, I haven’t really seen any worthwhile content anywhere. Perhaps there is some great content I can get in Karmafleet, but I’m not there so I don’t know about it. ---
**Author:** ![Mark\_Marconi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mark_marconi/32/150029_2.png) [@Mark\_Marconi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mark_Marconi)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2019, 11:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056/652 "2019-09-14T11:18:18Z")
Neither will EvE, not with its free alpha accounts. ---
**Author:** ![Agondray](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/agondray/32/414989_2.png) [@Agondray](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Agondray)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2019, 2:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056/660 "2019-09-14T14:42:09Z")
> [@Reb\_Estemaire](#): > > All mine have stopped playing long ago. yeah same here all of mine quit years ago which was a good amount of close to 30 people that i knew personally ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Guru](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/don_guru/32/270284_2.png) [@Don\_Guru](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Don_Guru)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2019, 5:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056/748 "2019-09-14T17:51:29Z")
This is appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isd_dorrim_barstorlode/32/361083_2.png) [@ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ISD_Dorrim_Barstorlode)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2019, 7:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056/757 "2019-09-14T19:25:37Z")
---
**Author:** ![ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isd_dorrim_barstorlode/32/361083_2.png) [@ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ISD_Dorrim_Barstorlode)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2019, 7:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056/758 "2019-09-14T19:25:53Z")
Removed 100+ posts. Keep it on topic and civil. No more warnings. ---
**Author:** ![ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isd_dorrim_barstorlode/32/361083_2.png) [@ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ISD_Dorrim_Barstorlode)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2019, 7:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056/759 "2019-09-14T19:58:19Z")
---
**Author:** ![Compo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/compo/32/167680_2.png) [@Compo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Compo)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2019, 8:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056/760 "2019-09-14T20:00:22Z")
![ISD2](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/e/2/e2c97e5c677b4fe1fab6d40cb82d48a1548329ae.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2019, 8:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056/761 "2019-09-14T20:07:46Z")
o7 to the ISD! Over 30 min of peace and quiet in this thread. 😉 Frankly, bo had no affect on my gameplay either. Other than my wh neighbors complex getting popped for being outta fuel, its more busy, but they pass us by. What I don’t like is being experimented on. While this nerf didn’t affect me, others have. They seem to be spending a lot of time on fixing their own mistakes while punishing a part of the player base that is not even a part of the problem they are trying to solve. This not a new phenomena with CCP. ---
**Author:** ![Circumstantial\_Evidence](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/circumstantial_evidence/32/399551_2.png) [@Circumstantial\_Evidence](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Circumstantial_Evidence)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2019, 9:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056/762 "2019-09-14T21:08:38Z")
In regards to CCP considering extra help for new-player ship losses - > [@Solecist\_Project](#): > > The customers are adults. CCP assumes these adults need someone to tell them that the booboo they had isn’t all that bad. THAT is the reality of this situation. It’s either not going to work, or it’s going to “help” keeping adults around that aren’t really mentally fit for this game. > [..] > How you can not understand the weirdness of this, and the possible negative outcome, is just as much worrying as CCP believing that this is a good idea for the long term. Well, I guess for them it is, because keeping immature children in adults bodies as customers is likely going to improve income. > > But hey … don’t listen to someone who can actually work through things and write them out. Better just use Ignorance and only believe what you yourself think about it, which is _exactly that which you have been told to think and not a single thought more_ . That’s what you are doing here. I absolutely respect players who figure out what they did wrong to lose a ship on their own. However, CCP studies the reasons new players quit, as you say it’s in their financial interest. We aren’t given a choice when they roll out changes like this, but I simply can’t get irritated that some players in the future got more help than I did when I started, if they are from the end of that new-player period playing the game in ways largely indistinguishable from the ‘didn’t need help’ types, **because now they know which button to push.** If CCP does more than they say, and starts putting band-aids (automatic reimbursements) for 3rd and 4th new player losses - I believe we will read about it in these forums, or on Reddit. Either from someone genuinely surprised to find “such a generous and forgiving MMO” — or a scam artist, bragging how he played a noob and CCP replaced four ships he got a couple kills with and one of them had faction mods. A fully automatic process with no GM oversight - one of their long term goals - can be gamed, that’s definitely a concern. But, initiated by GM’s combing through losses, this is my idea of a new-player-lost-ship message, based on what I think CCP are aiming for: > "New Eden can be a harsh an unforgiving place. It appears you went into lowsec, got shot at, and: > > [A] You did not activate your shield or armor repair modules. They do not work automatically! Activate them by clicking on the module’s icon, next to the capacitor status readout. > > [B] You turned off your shield or armor modules. Do not click module icons in the fitting window, while you are in combat! > > Salvage operations were able to recover your [ship name], take good care of it, and feel free to ask questions in Rookie Chat or file a Support Ticket." Pre-emptively (not waiting for a support ticket) explaining a few gameplay basics in this manner, especially in a player’s first days, should not turn EVE into a haven for immature children _(Some argue that this is already the case!)_ — But let me know if they plan to take local text chat away, and only permit a short list of emote-icons. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2019, 9:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056/763 "2019-09-14T21:24:00Z")
> [@Circumstantial\_Evidence](#): > > We aren’t given a choice when they roll out changes like this, but I simply can’t get irritated that some players in the future got more help than I did when I started, if they are from the end of that new-player period playing the game in ways largely indistinguishable from the ‘didn’t need help’ types, **because now they know which button to push.** I’m not getting irritated. I’m angry about the situation western societies are in. I can’t actually blame CCP for slowly turning into Big Brother, because that’s apparently what’s necessary in nowadays society-of-mostly-losers … though, to be fair, it’s mostly one specific populace that requires this kind of cuddling. Anyhow. The part I deem important, which I actually want to address: > [@Circumstantial\_Evidence](#): > > end of that new-player period playing the game in ways largely indistinguishable from the ‘didn’t need help’ types, **because now they know which button to push.** The difference isn’t just “now they know which button to push”. It’s the whole mindset behind the brains of the people who can figure things out themselves and those who don’t. Hell, the brains themselves are wired completely different. Ones are independent, self sufficient and capable of figuring out where and how to gather information by themselves. The others aren’t. _(I know I’m probably not addressing this properly. I mean the being “cuddled”, but I’m having an easier time this way. In the end, what matters, is that CCP is going to implement a “cuddle council” for those people who really don’t have the mind required for EVE ONLINE, which means that the “initial cuddling” simply isn’t going to be sufficient in the long run. My post is written as an attempt to get the message across properly.)_ It is a problem of _dependency_ which only ever gets worse, the more people are being “cuddled”. Too many people rely on too many others in ways that shouldn’t be happening, and eventually people simply can’t exist anymore without relying on help due to them never learning how to figure things out all by themselves. I know it seems silly to take little things and making such a quabble about them, like I tend to do, but I simply extrapolate into the future. Little things can have huge, lasting consequences. They can also add to the huge pile of other little things, which eventually turns into a huge pile of some-thing. EVE simply isn’t going to last without a healthy portion of people being self sufficient, being self responsible, being able to figure things out and having a normal-sized skin. Normal sized. People nowadays are extremely _thin-skinned_ … if that’s the word. At some point, the lower the bar of entry becomes, the lower it has to become. It’s a downward spiral. To make that more understandable: When you take a complicated game and make it easier, then more people can play that game. The game creator set a new bar. At some point he will realize that there are still many people who can’t play his game, because it’s still too complicated, so he lowers the bar again. (making those quit who actually liked the game _because_ it was complicated). The thing here is that there simply is _NO_ bottom to this. There will always be people who are dumber than others and every time a new status quo is being set, people even dumber than the current ones are going to be asking to have it easier. This is a universal thing. In EVE, for years, it was observable in the context of “suicide ganking” and even spawned the OneMoreNerf ™ meme. I’m just going to stop now, because I’m already writing enough. Thank you for your post! ---
**Author:** ![Boom\_Boom\_Longtime](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/boom_boom_longtime/32/503592_2.png) [@Boom\_Boom\_Longtime](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Boom_Boom_Longtime)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2019, 9:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056/764 "2019-09-16T21:24:43Z")
Folks, can we keep it civil please. I understand the strong opinions given the current apparent state of the game. I also appreciate both sides of the coin. I wouldn’t have made this OP if I didn’t feel that at face value it appears the decisions CCP upper management have made over the last 3-4 years have brought the community to this point (and the concurrent log ins). This doesn’t mean my opinion is correct however. I just feel the community spirit and feel good factor that actually made this game different has been stifled and extinguished gradually over time in favour of corporate pursuit with lack of visibility / acumen of the inherent damage this was doing. I miss the good old days now, this game has been a part of my life for the last ten years - but we are now where we are. Sadly I feel Eve Online will now become an example to future observers as to why not to indirectly neglect your core business model to focus on other models that were ultimately unrealisable cash pits. I hope I’m wrong, but the glass is half full. ---
**Author:** ![Buoytender\_Bob](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/buoytender_bob/32/374377_2.png) [@Buoytender\_Bob](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Buoytender_Bob)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2019, 9:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056/765 "2019-09-16T21:45:09Z")
Good post. Knowing this sounds like an old man (hell at 60 the shoe fits), but when I first started I spent probably a 1:1 time ratio looking at out of game information,videos, and guides, trying to get information so I could figure out gameplay.You know, actually learn. Jump 11+ years forward and spend time in the help channels. You find people not apparently able to use Google, follow the tutorials to completetion, or keep up with current new gameplay changes. No longer give them a link to read up on some aspect, but they demand you tell them what they should do, whether it’s ship fitting, in game activity, what corp to join, etc. The time of self education and determination appears to be entering its sunset period. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056.md?page=28) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-concurrent-average-online-under-20k-now/185056.md?page=30)