# EVE is an easy 7/10 on Josh Strife Hayes' Pay2Win scale **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 24, 2024, 1:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-is-an-easy-7-10-on-josh-strife-hayes-pay2win-scale/444032 "2024-03-24T13:24:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 10:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-is-an-easy-7-10-on-josh-strife-hayes-pay2win-scale/444032/141 "2024-03-26T22:48:24Z")
> [@Erebus\_TheChin\_Sundance](#): > > Well I just buy the socks who cares what the shop wants. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > They even pay people to change the design to make you purchase useless things. Good points but no matter how much they advertise, it only works for those who have some kind of ‘need’ or ‘greed’. None of the cash shop items are required to play the game and have fun. Which is the actual idea of the game ‘entertainment for the player’. The game is not altered to the point where someone has to buy any of the ‘alterations’, anyone can learn up to those skills in the same way one could in 2004. People might be less reserved than 20 years ago and there is blatant marketing in the launcher but it still does not limit anyone in comparison to 2004. To the contrary, you can now play for FREE, unlike 2004 where you could try 15 days max and had to sub monthly to continue. ---
**Author:** ![Felix\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/felix_frostpacker/32/515826_2.png) [@Felix\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Felix_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2024, 12:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-is-an-easy-7-10-on-josh-strife-hayes-pay2win-scale/444032/142 "2024-03-27T00:19:50Z")
It’s why the learning curve is so steep. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2024, 1:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-is-an-easy-7-10-on-josh-strife-hayes-pay2win-scale/444032/143 "2024-03-27T01:34:39Z")
> [@Io\_Koval](#): > > Wasn’t there someone on the forums a few years back who just discovered the stock market and was excited to show off how they were gonna dump $40,000 into ISK because of their awesome trades or something. Haven’t heard from them but hope they were successful and are doing well. There’s always one or two who spend absurd amounts, but I think this graph shows that most are not spending anything like that. I mean, half of all people in Eve have less than 9bn ISK…which in real terms equates to about £70. Less than 1% of players have over 500bn ISK. ![Eve_Wealth](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/7/b/e/7be949ba09ec96e72beac2fbb49f6437ec2fbd5e.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2024, 10:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-is-an-easy-7-10-on-josh-strife-hayes-pay2win-scale/444032/144 "2024-03-27T10:27:37Z")
> [@Aedaxus](#): > > Good points but no matter how much they advertise, it only works for those who have some kind of ‘need’ or ‘greed’. Nope, it does not. Believing that you are free from your own culture is delusional. And it works the best with delusional people (and of course oblivious people) . Because they have a habit to rationalize _a posteriori_ their choices instead of taking measures to not reproduce their mistakes. Just like those NFT/BTC enjoyers, when they try to put on “scientific” reasons to get into their scam, repeating what people told them which they wanted to hear. ---
**Author:** ![Princess\_Rose\_Ivory](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/princess_rose_ivory/32/515700_2.png) [@Princess\_Rose\_Ivory](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Princess_Rose_Ivory)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2024, 11:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-is-an-easy-7-10-on-josh-strife-hayes-pay2win-scale/444032/145 "2024-03-27T11:14:55Z")
I just love it when people rate on a scale of 1 to 10. I thought Nigel Tufnel explained all this to everyone back in 1984 when he stated, his amps can be turned up to 11. I have to make some adjustments on the IMDB movie ratings for myself. You see when I rate a move a 5.0, I am saying it was an average movie, but others think 7.0 is average like they are grading an English essay. Since this happens far too often, I have to readjust the rating system to 6.0 being an average and anything above it is a pretty good show. While you will most likely regret looking at anything 4.0 and under, with the exception of _Manos the Hands of Fate_. As for “pay 2 win”, I already beat this game, haven’t spent a dime here. Thus Eve cannot be pay 2 win. It is however, pay 2 cheat as I have seen in many other online games. Have fun! ---
**Author:** ![Erebus\_TheChin\_Sundance](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/erebus_thechin_sundance/32/375165_2.png) [@Erebus\_TheChin\_Sundance](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Erebus_TheChin_Sundance)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2024, 11:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-is-an-easy-7-10-on-josh-strife-hayes-pay2win-scale/444032/146 "2024-03-27T11:37:14Z")
Well as bad as it is, monetization in gaming is now normal. I have also watched it come in from the days gone by where you buy the game you get the game. In a box, with a booklet and sometimes even a sticker! Its now about responding positively to games that do it well, or ok, and saying no to games that take it to far. I still think CCP are at least trying to get a balance and they did move pretty fast at sorting the mining barge pack out after the community started to gather the pitchforks. At this point avoiding it is like avoiding sand on a beach, imagine not going to the beach because you might get some sand up your ass. ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2024, 4:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-is-an-easy-7-10-on-josh-strife-hayes-pay2win-scale/444032/147 "2024-03-27T16:10:55Z")
I understand that, some people might spend more than they should on some things. And the push marketing has been creeping more and more into the daily lives. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2024, 8:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-is-an-easy-7-10-on-josh-strife-hayes-pay2win-scale/444032/148 "2024-03-27T20:36:02Z")
> [@Erebus\_TheChin\_Sundance](#): > > Well as bad as it is, monetization in gaming is now normal. Eve always disguised what most MMOs would desribe as ‘camping’ ( basically being rewarded for sitting there in the game in some location to increase the stats ) as ‘mining’. A clever ruse. The thing is…in most games where camping is involved it is a meagre source of income and not an entire industry. There is no sense of ’ I have earned my place here via some time-like activity '. It is _only_ really in Eve that you get people proud to profess that they’ve spent 17 years camping. Once you realise that mining _is_ just glorified camping…the spell is broken and the wallet is much easier to reach for. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2024, 8:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-is-an-easy-7-10-on-josh-strife-hayes-pay2win-scale/444032/149 "2024-03-27T20:55:42Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Once you realise that mining _is_ just glorified camping Go away. Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2024, 11:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-is-an-easy-7-10-on-josh-strife-hayes-pay2win-scale/444032/150 "2024-03-27T23:51:36Z")
Pepperidge farms remembers ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2024, 1:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-is-an-easy-7-10-on-josh-strife-hayes-pay2win-scale/444032/151 "2024-03-29T13:21:33Z")
Your post is a sad 2/10 ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2024, 1:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-is-an-easy-7-10-on-josh-strife-hayes-pay2win-scale/444032/152 "2024-03-29T13:29:08Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Once you realise that mining _is_ just glorified camping I honestly think, that because of the brain dead game play mining provides, it acts like a magnet for certain people who are maybe not the brightest stars in the New Eden cluster, who then provide content for other players. This whole construct would actually be genius if it was intentional, which it probably wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2024, 1:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-is-an-easy-7-10-on-josh-strife-hayes-pay2win-scale/444032/153 "2024-03-29T13:44:23Z")
It’s a common ploy on other MMOs. For example, over on another MMO a shop wants to attract customers and it does so by raising its position in the ‘Search’ function so it _appears_ more busy. The latter is done by paying people ( usually noobs with no in-game money ) to ‘camp’ at the shop for a small reward every 15 minutes. It artificially makes the place look busy. This is where the term ‘camping’ originally comes from…before it was ever used to describe gate activities in Eve. The tactic is used far and wide on the internet. And in some cases, such as mining in Eve, it is pretty well built into the game and not accidental. Mining holds players in systems for hours on end…and thus increases player concurrency, which is its true purpose. And, of course, there is a ‘reward’ for it of in-game currency. The secret is to not make the ‘camping’ appear too obvious…but once you’ve seen it in other games you recognise just exactly what it is. I’m not criticising it…just seeing it for its true nature. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2024, 2:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-is-an-easy-7-10-on-josh-strife-hayes-pay2win-scale/444032/154 "2024-03-29T14:15:48Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > This is where the term ‘camping’ originally comes from… The term “camping” has been around in gaming since long long before MMOs and even gaming on the internet and comes from the spawn campers and snipers in FPS games. ---
**Author:** ![Oskar\_Milde](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/oskar_milde/32/396309_2.png) [@Oskar\_Milde](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Oskar_Milde)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2024, 2:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-is-an-easy-7-10-on-josh-strife-hayes-pay2win-scale/444032/155 "2024-03-29T14:40:07Z")
1. Josh Strife Hayes is not the ultimate arbiter of all things. He’s just a hack YT games talker, with his own preferences etc. Generally, lowest common denominator, low risk pve grindfests. 2. OP has not been active on zkill for going on 4 years; nothing fundamentally has changed in that time. As usual with this tiresome conversation, it boils down to OP complaining about features that have been part of the game for a decade and a half - at least - and so really what’s the point in complaining? Nothing has changed fundamentally about the monetisation of the game in that time (due to people rightfully complaining about some moves from CCP like offering ships for cash). Looking at OP’s character history, GTC / Plex was in place from before you created your character. So, what has changed between then and now to make this a problem. OP? ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2024, 2:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-is-an-easy-7-10-on-josh-strife-hayes-pay2win-scale/444032/156 "2024-03-29T14:47:52Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > This is where the term ‘camping’ originally comes from…before it was ever used to describe gate activities in Eve. ROFL. There was camping in counter-strike when it was but a mod of half-life. I was there Gandalf, I was there, 3 000 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2024, 3:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-is-an-easy-7-10-on-josh-strife-hayes-pay2win-scale/444032/157 "2024-03-29T15:09:04Z")
> [@Oskar\_Milde](#): > > Josh Strife Hayes is not the ultimate arbiter of all things Thanks for sharing your opinion “Oskar Milde”. It is very important to us. > [@Oskar\_Milde](#): > > So, what has changed between then and now to make this a problem. OP? It always has been a problem. The whole “it’s always been this way” is not a valid excuse to deflect a complaint about how a game could be made better. It’s the kind of argument someone uses who can’t be even bothered to think about what was discussed but is just generally pissed that someone suggest some change and still thinks they have to voice their opinion anyway, even though it has zero value ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2024, 3:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-is-an-easy-7-10-on-josh-strife-hayes-pay2win-scale/444032/158 "2024-03-29T15:14:52Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > Thanks for sharing your opinion “Oskar Milde”. It is very important to us. I value the opinion of Oskar more than of some youtuber that you claim has an ‘objective’ view even though they use a very suggestive out of 10 scale with rules they completely made up themselves. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2024, 3:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-is-an-easy-7-10-on-josh-strife-hayes-pay2win-scale/444032/159 "2024-03-29T15:18:41Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > I value the opinion of Oskar more than of some youtuber that you claim has an ‘objective’ view To be fair, he did not pretend Josh’s opinion was objective, but that he was trying to build a factual scale of P2W ---
**Author:** ![Oskar\_Milde](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/oskar_milde/32/396309_2.png) [@Oskar\_Milde](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Oskar_Milde)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2024, 3:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-is-an-easy-7-10-on-josh-strife-hayes-pay2win-scale/444032/160 "2024-03-29T15:19:44Z")
Ah. sorry I was using the word ‘problem’ as in ‘a matter or situation regarded as unwelcome or harmful and needing to be dealt with and overcome’, and in this particular context specifically as being a situation harmful to the game needing to be dealt with. In your OP your explanation stretches as far as ‘internet man says bad’, so sorry if I wasn’t previously giving the reply the intellectual fervour you expect. Maybe you can help here: what’s the harm you have identified being done to eve online through use of Plex, and what’s the solution proposed? Edit: Thanks G! Stef, ‘factual’ is synonymous with ‘objective’ in this context. Hayes is neither. In my experience, he is a feedback loop for the kind of Gamerz™ that moan a lot on forums about games they don’t play. Which makes him prime to feed the types that post here on the daily. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-is-an-easy-7-10-on-josh-strife-hayes-pay2win-scale/444032.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-is-an-easy-7-10-on-josh-strife-hayes-pay2win-scale/444032.md?page=9)