# Eve isn't dying, but it isn't growing. My answer that devs won't recognize **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [January 29, 2023, 4:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694 "2023-01-29T16:42:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![T\_Elliot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/t_elliot/32/453851_2.png) [@T\_Elliot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/T_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2023, 2:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694/329 "2023-02-08T14:41:57Z")
> [@AureuSZ](#): > > Still got caught, what was needed was just an unkown, uncorped cloacked machariel near a stargate, and an active fleet of catalysts anywhere in less than 20 jumps. From your description I am assuming that you were flying a freighter solo and were bumped until the gank fleet came? For the future (or for others reading this) there is a counter to this as well, but you need a friend or alt. If I am hauling a huge load of goods in my fenrir I always fly with friendly battleship set up to web, rep, and counter bump. Maybe in your case that would not have been enough. But maybe it would have been. There is always a chance that you will be outplayed, sometimes you are going to lose. But if one takes precautions, you will win the vast majority of the time. This narrative that gankers are unbeatable ravenous wolves is just silly. Even Fenrir’s have a tremendous amount of hit points. All it takes to beat the gankers is to hold out until concord comes. Fit bulkheads, not cargo expanders, and if you are going to haul enough loot that it is economically viable to gank your freighter, fly with friends, scout ahead, be prepared to rep and counter bump. (If you can’t do that, then maybe consider making two or three trips so you are not such a target.) Ganking is a thing is EvE, but is very rare, and there are things you can do to keep yourself safe. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2023, 3:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694/330 "2023-02-08T15:52:27Z")
> [@AureuSZ](#): > > There’s no way to counter a fleet with enough DPS. That word ‘counter’ gets thrown about as if it were the relevant one. It’s a somewhat deceptive tactic…as it gives the false impression that DPS is the only counter to DPS. If, for example, one wishes to haul stuff from A to B, the ‘counter’ to being ganked is to haul in quantities that are not worth ganking. Or, to use some form of relay system. I use a combination of both to haul hundreds of millions of ISK worth of implants. I’ve used the same method to haul clone soldier tags. It works. I have never been ganked while hauling stuff. Sure, it _takes longer_ than hauling all in one go…but the most powerful ‘counter’ to hauler ganking has always been _patience_. Likewise the counter to miner ganking has always been _alertness_. It is practically impossible to gank a miner who is alert and situationally aware, and even more so if they have corp intel on ganker locations. The signs of an impending gank are easy to spot. Any miner with sense will be watching out for scouts ( who may not necessarily be in the ganker corp ) and other signs. I had to laugh at the recent case where the streamer who got ganked was not even _aware_ he was being ganked until 14 seconds after the gankers arrived. An excellent lesson in how _not_ to be alert. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2023, 4:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694/331 "2023-02-08T16:12:02Z")
> [@T\_Elliot](#): > > Even Fenrir’s have a tremendous amount of hit points. All it takes to beat the gankers is to hold out until concord comes. Fit bulkheads, not cargo expanders, and if you are going to haul enough loot that it is economically viable to gank your freighter, fly with friends, scout ahead, be prepared to rep and counter bump. (If you can’t do that, then maybe consider making two or three trips so you are not such a target.) One of the crazy things I see in killboard is how many Fenrir’s carry low volume yet expensive stuff that could easily all be fitted into a fast align Gnosis, or where the Fenrir itself is worth waaay more than all the cargo. I’ve seen cases where 2.5bn worth of Fenrir was ganked carrying just 3m ISK worth of cargo…for example. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2023, 11:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694/332 "2023-02-08T23:33:59Z")
Sometimes it is just bad luck. I’m not gonna bust your butt for losing ships. There is some **very** good advice between your post and this reply. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > You should go and gank, and in a few weeks come back and let us know if you still feel the same way This probably being the best. In eve, you can learn how to hunt sheep instead of just being one. (Cold analogy, sry) Once you learn how to hunt, you instinctively know what to watch for. I lost far more combat ships by being outwitted or bad luck than transports. But then I outwitted far more than I lost overall just because I had learned the game from a pvp point of view from the start. The only additional advice I can give to find a corp who teach you such skills. Thats apparently more difficult than avoiding gankers. Oh, and if your one of the “I just want to chill in hs” crowd… Best of luck and fly safe! ---
**Author:** ![AureuSZ](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aureusz/32/467377_2.png) [@AureuSZ](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/AureuSZ)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2023, 12:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694/333 "2023-02-09T00:34:03Z")
If I want some pvp action I’d go back to null, but it looks boring right now from what I read on the forums. Small gang pvp was what I enjoyed the most, so tough luck. Ganking is just a numbers and patience game, I don’t find it interesting / rewarding. As for chilling in high sec, yeah sometimes I’d just like to enjoy a bit of “reduced attention” Eve when I’m working on a project on the side, and jump in more dangerous zones when I actually want to play more actively, but this is not possible anymore, so I’ll stay away 5 more years 😅 I think I just crave for a space game and star citizen 3.18 is taking way too long to go live. Cheers. ---
**Author:** ![Misanthra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/misanthra/32/391383_2.png) [@Misanthra](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Misanthra)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2023, 12:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694/334 "2023-02-09T00:45:13Z")
> [@AureuSZ](#): > > If I want some pvp action I’d go back to null, but it looks boring right now from what I read on the forums. they wander the halls of r eve more these days. sometimes the meme’s are even good. Personally on this return I see me hitting the NPSI stuffmore. Non committal 0.0 life. come for the pug fleet fights and go do whatever when not on those. Drop into say bombers bar NPSI , blow crap up, maybe get blown up myself and drop fleet with GG, see you all next one I catch really. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2023, 12:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694/335 "2023-02-09T00:46:01Z")
> [@AureuSZ](#): > > I’ll stay away 5 more years I retire in under 4 yrs. And they say retires have nothing to do… 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Misanthra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/misanthra/32/391383_2.png) [@Misanthra](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Misanthra)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2023, 1:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694/336 "2023-02-09T01:04:08Z")
I work with some who dread retirement. What will they do?!?! They go as I work on their IT issue…what would you do on retirement? (I turn 50 soon, its closer now, jsut 15 more years…yes) well… I’d wake up, setup the camera gear in a nice spot like beaches nearby and enjoy early morning landscape photograghy for hours. pack up around noonish since that is when light gets “bad” (harshest light is midday). come home. eat a modest lunch with the wife who will be retired too, play games and chill. I could do that daily and be happy. ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2023, 1:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694/337 "2023-02-09T01:16:48Z")
> [@AureuSZ](#): > > sometimes I’d just like to enjoy a bit of “reduced attention” Eve when I’m working on a project on the side, You can chill just fine in high sec as long as “chilling” doesn’t mean “autopiloting with zero tank and valuables”. It’s incredibly easy to not get ganked and if you feel even THAT is too much effort then that’s on you. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2023, 1:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694/338 "2023-02-09T01:22:00Z")
> [@Misanthra](#): > > I work with some who dread retirement. What will they do?!?! Obviously not someone who’s ever had to stand on a station platform at 7am in the freezing cold waiting for a train on which all the seats are already taken. Compared with which being ganked in Eve is practically nirvana. ---
**Author:** ![AureuSZ](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aureusz/32/467377_2.png) [@AureuSZ](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/AureuSZ)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2023, 10:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694/339 "2023-02-09T10:46:36Z")
> [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > "chilling” doesn’t mean “autopiloting with zero tank and valuables”. I felt like null was safer than high sec when I left the game. That’s saying a lot. Maybe just some form of PTSD 🙃 ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2023, 10:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694/340 "2023-02-09T10:49:19Z")
Don’t lie. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2023, 10:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694/341 "2023-02-09T10:56:14Z")
> [@AureuSZ](#): > > I felt like null was safer than high sec when I left the game. That’s saying a lot. Feelings can be misleading. Nullsec as a class of space has always been significantly more dangerous than highsec by multiple objective measures. Individual systems or even groups of systems obviously vary from the “average” so it’s possible to have systems/constellations in null that are relatively safe, but that’s also similar for highsec. ---
**Author:** ![AureuSZ](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aureusz/32/467377_2.png) [@AureuSZ](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/AureuSZ)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2023, 11:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694/342 "2023-02-09T11:11:37Z")
Yup like said before, probably anecdotal / bad luck for me, yet very effective at keeping me away and probably many other players. Which is why I answered this thread with my limited knowledge of what changes were made in the last 5 years. The bumping removal is obviously a good step. That’s the thing that triggered me the most. When a mechanic actually make people quit, while losing much more in other areas of the game does not, it’s still likely a bad mechanic. I’m talking from the POV of someone who has a competitive itch. (Which is probably the point as well, aside from loot stealing, there is no real pvp aspect in ganking except those very tears you are reading) Granted my killboard history is not great, considering I flew logis in pvp most of the time, so it’s hard to make any statement here if it mattered. (Except that I lost few of them) Good for those who enjoy it though, so probably not that bad for player retention. ---
**Author:** ![Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nujenif_talvanen/32/433113_2.png) [@Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nujenif_Talvanen)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2023, 7:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694/343 "2023-02-10T07:02:59Z")
I agree that the bumping fix was a good idea. 3 minutes is still plenty of time to drop something on an unfirtunate freighter, but it also keeps any suffering from dragging out more than it needs to be dragged out. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2023, 8:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694/344 "2023-02-10T08:39:12Z")
As I was heavily involved in getting unlimited time bumping removed for the very reasons you detailed I am glad to see this: > [@AureuSZ](#): > > The bumping removal is obviously a good step. That’s the thing that triggered me the most. ---
**Author:** ![Galaxy\_Pig](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/galaxy_pig/32/374625_2.png) [@Galaxy\_Pig](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Galaxy_Pig)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2023, 11:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694/345 "2023-02-10T11:09:07Z")
> [@Khaldin](#): > > Not PLEX’d accounts, but full on subscribers that PAY you to play the game, not just harvest, sell, plex, and never pay anything for the resources they are using on your server. Sighhhhhhh… Yet another carebear who doesn’t understand how PLEX works… Oh, EVE 🙂 you never change \<3 ---
**Author:** ![Sargon\_Of\_Amerish](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sargon_of_amerish/32/381433_2.png) [@Sargon\_Of\_Amerish](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sargon_Of_Amerish)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2023, 7:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694/346 "2023-02-14T07:48:42Z")
_(bear with me as I’m too lazy to address individual salt-posts separately so this also applies to a similar one that most have you have probably seen)_ LOL I dont log in for five or six days because of my work schedule and the carebears already think I got banned… Fact: I’m logged in right now and haven’t gotten banned or even so much as a mail warning me of any kind of misconduct so safe to say that… Fact: Salty carebears are for the most part, ignorant and misinformed. Fact: This surprises approximately noone. :reversecongaparrot: :reversecongaparrot: :reversecongaparrot: :reversecongaparrot: :reversecongaparrot: :reversecongaparrot: :reversecongaparrot: :reversecongaparrot: :reversecongaparrot: :reversecongaparrot: :congaparrot: :congaparrot: :congaparrot: :congaparrot: :congaparrot: :congaparrot: :congaparrot: :congaparrot: :congaparrot: :congaparrot: ---
**Author:** ![Tzashrah\_Praankar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tzashrah_praankar/32/354043_2.png) [@Tzashrah\_Praankar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tzashrah_Praankar)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2023, 9:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694/347 "2023-02-14T21:51:22Z")
@Ha_Kar_Ma_Gor ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/b/e/5/be520b084da25d8bd05923af823fd0007b0fb2e1.png) Well? ---
**Author:** ![Ha\_Kar\_Ma\_Gor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ha_kar_ma_gor/32/352552_2.png) [@Ha\_Kar\_Ma\_Gor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ha_Kar_Ma_Gor)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2023, 1:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694/348 "2023-02-15T01:59:58Z")
> [@Ha\_Kar\_Ma\_Gor](#): > > > [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > > > How much isk will you send me when one of those characters has activity again? > > Seems like they are still inactive. Probably a perma-ban. How much money do you owe me now, Aiko queen of wankers? > > ![Sargon](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/3/c/8/3c89325a38f257a228c081e7638050c8908b4905.png) > > ![Dumb](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/f/b/a/fbac77e0eb092d6c9f0ed8542caba2e45a1b1953.png) Obviously a temporary ban. Him comming back after 3 weeks only confirms it. And trolls mass reporting my previous post calling this only shows how ibsecure you people are. I hope you all learned something from this. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694.md?page=15) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694.md?page=17)