# Eve isn't dying, but it isn't growing. My answer that devs won't recognize **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [January 29, 2023, 4:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694 "2023-01-29T16:42:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Oskar\_Milde](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/oskar_milde/32/396309_2.png) [@Oskar\_Milde](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Oskar_Milde)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2023, 8:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694/430 "2023-03-09T08:35:41Z")
Not to mention that any reasonably competent group of 10 people can pick apart that 20b+ fleet with consummate ease, because heavy multiboxing like that is normally not too bad to counter The only guys who consistently get away with boxing that many ships in pve are folks like Dora and Eosguy (though at least one of the eosguy’s seems to be input broadcasting) who use heavy drone comps, which are a lot easier to use effectively while multiboxing, and simultaneously a lot more annoying to deal with as the other party. ---
**Author:** ![Astra\_Dragonstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/astra_dragonstar/32/476485_2.png) [@Astra\_Dragonstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Astra_Dragonstar)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2023, 11:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694/431 "2023-03-13T11:16:54Z")
I agree that EVE isn’t growing at least as fast as it could. But all the OPs suggestions are TERRIBLE. One reason EVE has at best slow growth is not avoidable, the fact its an insanely complex open ended game compared to anything else, and does not appeal to most gamers, only the nerdiest and spaciest tend to stick with it. And even the space nerd spreadsheet lords can get burned out especially if they are having trouble finding an active corp to play with at hours they can handle. it happens a lot more than some think. Despite the fact huge active alliances are common, sometimes someone’s schedule is just bad luck. We can’t change these things about the game. But CCP could still give it more love, and improve it in areas it does shine already. Why not add new areas to the map? expand the fringes of New Eden a few constellations in each direction, enough that the alliances that control nullsec all have a decent shot at seizing some new territory. Why not connect those edges by special wormholes to hisec in a few places, so people can quickly travel back and forth with some planning and timing? Address balance issues maybe? Fix bugs? I noticed that the market description of ice units says its 1,000,000m3 that’s obviously wrong, unless my mining ship is actually a Tardis. ---
**Author:** ![Klaatu\_Barada\_nikto](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/klaatu_barada_nikto/32/360937_2.png) [@Klaatu\_Barada\_nikto](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Klaatu_Barada_nikto)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2023, 11:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694/432 "2023-04-02T11:51:12Z")
> [@Khaldin](#): > > go to [eveoffline.net](http://eveoffline.net) and look at the numbers. Numbers don’t lie. 27,124 logged in today. That’s not bad at all for an MMO these days. 27k players a day is average for a mostly 2D game with inferior PvE. > [@Khaldin](#): > > Eve isn’t dying. Eve isn’t growing. It’s in a consistent state of stale. Why? Because it’s a pay-to-play and pay-to-win game and in this environmental, health, political, social, security and economic crises people aren’t as keen to spend hard-earned time and money on ordinary pew-pew games as they used to before the world went upside-down and ultimately nuts on them. > [@Khaldin](#): > > I believe it’s because the dev’s aren’t looking outside of the game at how the gaming industry, in general, finds success I think there are a few good reasons for EVE failure but not looking at how others in the gaming industry treat their playerbase is definitely on of the many causes. > [@Khaldin](#): > > could not care less about anyone else’s opinion Too bad. You’re going to get mine whether you want it or not. > [@Khaldin](#): > > Fact: > If I pay $20 a month and ALL progress I have made in the form of collateral can be wiped at any given time in the name of some legendary name like James, or some whale that can gank at will No need to pay $20 a month to get your progress wiped out by the game’s PvP mechanic. You can get that for free 😉 > [@Khaldin](#): > > why would I keep paying you to go backwards? Important question! I hope you find the answer to it before long and share it with us on the forum😃 > [@Khaldin](#): > > Oh right! It’s part of the game… risk vs. reward your loyal 15k base says… ok… that’s why you’re not growing… keep listening to those 15k and stay right where you are What does it matter to you if EVE has 25 thousand or 25 million daily players? It’s not like you yourself are going to see or benefit from it. What do you even _care_? > [@Khaldin](#): > > I do not play the game like you I don’t play like you either, so what’s your point? > [@Khaldin](#): > > You do not play the game like X/Y/Z How do you know how I play?? Are you psychic? > [@Khaldin](#): > > YOUR idea of how the game should be played is meaningless because there are 8 billion people on this planet and you aren’t that important 🤭 You realize that means _you_ too, right? 😂 > [@Khaldin](#): > > If I want to play a space game that has neutral regions that aren’t PvP focused… then I should No one is holding you back from a game like that. I’m sure you’ll find a few games that would fill your needs on Steam. > [@Khaldin](#): > > You could easily create an option, just like with Alpha / Omega that includes Subscribers. Not PLEX’d accounts, but full on subscribers that PAY you to play the game, not just harvest, sell, plex, and never pay anything for the resources they are using on your server. If you had a subscriber level, you could compliment those accounts with cargo / ship recovery on death They could but they don’t want to and you’re not gonna make them. Also, don’t tell me your whole thread **is** because you lost ships in a stupid manner. > [@Khaldin](#): > > If I am paying you to play this game, then let me keep my ships when I get blown up It **is** 😅 > [@Khaldin](#): > > unless I actively set my safety to red and engage willfully into pvp… It is possible 🤣Yes it is, just not on Tranquility. > [@Khaldin](#): > > Again, I don’t care about peoples thoughts on this… Then maybe you shouldn’t have posted this thread? 😂 > [@Khaldin](#): > > people are looking for this kind of game… but not this current community. The community has nothing to do with you being bad at EVE. That’s squarely on you. > [@Khaldin](#): > > Again… I do not care about the hate that I get…i The only _hate_ I read in this thread is _yours_. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabeth\_Dahlia\_Short](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabeth_dahlia_short/32/361358_2.png) [@Elizabeth\_Dahlia\_Short](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabeth_Dahlia_Short)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2023, 1:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694/434 "2023-04-02T13:28:07Z")
I just can’t believe it, I actually gave a comment you made, a like? omg ---
**Author:** ![Seydin\_Alisander](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/seydin_alisander/32/361376_2.png) [@Seydin\_Alisander](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Seydin_Alisander)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2023, 4:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694/435 "2023-04-02T16:13:03Z")
So I’m a casual part-time player and don’t really have a vested interest in either side of this argument. So this is more of a question than a comment. If the Singularity server offers a PVE environment. Why don’t all the PVE anti-gankers move there and build a new economy. If the player counts on this server grow exponentially, then maybe CCP makes it a persistent server. It seems a pretty straightforward solution where both sides are happy. ---
**Author:** ![Qia\_Kare](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/qia_kare/32/279281_2.png) [@Qia\_Kare](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Qia_Kare)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2023, 5:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694/436 "2023-04-02T17:20:22Z")
Singularity gets reset to whatever state Tranquility is in sporadically so PvE players complain they can’t make and keep their progress on Singularity (Which is true). Also, most ships and items are for sale on Singularity from NPCs for very little isk, so there is no real economy. What you’re left with would be people who play the PvE in safety strictly for fun, or who manufacture strictly because they enjoy that kind of gameplay, and it would seem there aren’t any people like that (or very few). ---
**Author:** ![Seydin\_Alisander](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/seydin_alisander/32/361376_2.png) [@Seydin\_Alisander](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Seydin_Alisander)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2023, 6:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694/437 "2023-04-02T18:41:28Z")
I see. So there isn’t an incentive to invest time to create a new economy as it just gets erased. That’s too bad as it seems it would solve a lot of the unhappiness on these forums. Maybe CCP should just run a test PVE/ role playing/ story driven server to see if it takes off. At best, they grow and create 2 niche markets? ---
**Author:** ![Seydin\_Alisander](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/seydin_alisander/32/361376_2.png) [@Seydin\_Alisander](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Seydin_Alisander)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2023, 6:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694/438 "2023-04-02T18:46:17Z")
I find the scope and feel of EVE be one it’s best qualities and the game could certainly work in a story driven BioWare style if CCP chose to go down this path ---
**Author:** ![Eldstokkr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eldstokkr/32/361029_2.png) [@Eldstokkr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eldstokkr)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2023, 6:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694/439 "2023-04-02T18:51:58Z")
The Prophet enjoys your tears. He urges you to put away your childish fear and ranting @Khaldin. Instead, put on the armor of your fathers and seek your destiny amongst the stars. Listen to the strum und drang and learn the lessons they sound. ---
**Author:** ![Snowflake\_Tem](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/snowflake_tem/32/432971_2.png) [@Snowflake\_Tem](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Snowflake_Tem)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2023, 12:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694/440 "2023-04-03T12:15:21Z")
- there’s no adventure without adversity - there is little reward without risk The prophets warn of divorcing story from consequence; and tell us that doing so will still the beating heart of the game. ---
**Author:** ![Klaatu\_Barada\_nikto](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/klaatu_barada_nikto/32/360937_2.png) [@Klaatu\_Barada\_nikto](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Klaatu_Barada_nikto)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2023, 1:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694/441 "2023-04-03T13:25:41Z")
> [@Snowflake\_Tem](#): > > there is little reward without risk Work yields rewards and often without risk. ---
**Author:** ![Seydin\_Alisander](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/seydin_alisander/32/361376_2.png) [@Seydin\_Alisander](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Seydin_Alisander)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2023, 1:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694/442 "2023-04-03T13:32:20Z")
My suggestion was not to change the Tranquility server. It was if there is enough people interested in a role playing/PVE format, then CCP would be foolish not to at least investigate the profit potential. You could keep playing the way you want on the current server. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2023, 1:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694/443 "2023-04-03T13:53:34Z")
The issue isn’t with these players not having a “safe” environment in which to run their PvE content without interference, but them not being able to have the wider audience validate their gameplay if they _do_ play in such an environment by themselves. Playing on the test server, or on some hypothetical PvE server, would mean that there’s going to be hardly anyone to patronize their economic output on the open market. In an environment where things rarely get destroyed, and are trivial to replace if they _do_ get destroyed, no one’s going to be buying materials, items, et cetera after the market quickly reaches its saturation point. These players will start to complain about their gameplay being unfulfilling, and will demand to go back to the original server while retain their protections, so that they’d be able to profit off of players who accept risks (e.g. by engaging in PvP) without accepting those risks themselves. This logic of course stems from a fundamental misunderstanding of how the economy functions. Players who accept risk can’t consume more from the economy than what they earn from what they put into it. The players who want risk-free PvE have to contribute their fair share of losses for the system to work. ---
**Author:** ![Seydin\_Alisander](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/seydin_alisander/32/361376_2.png) [@Seydin\_Alisander](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Seydin_Alisander)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2023, 2:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694/444 "2023-04-03T14:05:16Z")
I completely agree with your response. If CCP ported Tranquility over to a new server and made it PVE then it would be boring and it would eventually fail. The only way it would work is if the PVE server was story driven. Not economic or resource driven. This would require a lot of dev work by CCP. The game would be different. Not better or worse. My original point was that IF there are a ton of people who don’t like the PVP/gang aspect of the game. And there is a potential audience in addition to the before mentioned people, then CCP might want to look into this to grow the subscription customers. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2023, 2:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694/445 "2023-04-03T14:09:10Z")
No one’s going to be paying a sub for basically a single-player, story-driven version of EVE. You’re basically talking about the development of a standalone game at that point. I think that if CCP thought there’s a market for such a product using their IP, they would’ve made it by now, or at least contracted it out to a different studio or something. The fact of the matter is that a single-player/co-op, story-driven version of EVE just isn’t going to sell well, especially considering that there are already numerous competitors in that scene (e.g. the X series), and the demographic that plays such games is pretty small. Most players (even the carebears) are attracted to EVE because it’s an MMO. A lot of them simply go into it without considering the promised PvP aspect, and then realize they don’t like it after they start experiencing it themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Seydin\_Alisander](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/seydin_alisander/32/361376_2.png) [@Seydin\_Alisander](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Seydin_Alisander)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2023, 2:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694/446 "2023-04-03T14:21:13Z")
Maybe not and maybe the audience isn’t there. I was just thinking out loud in this forum. I would like to see it and if it did happen, I would probably play both. I can imagine a game like this where real risk could be NPC driven and the universe dynamic. Where cooperative play would be required to stop pirate invasions. If the invasion succeeds, “new” Jita is destroyed as well as all its contents. And the system is now a pirate system. Etc. this would lead to a Calderi led (player co-op) to take back “new” Jita. So less like a single player RPG. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2023, 2:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694/447 "2023-04-03T14:30:59Z")
Okay well we have threads asking CCP to get rid of the “griefers” and replace them with NPCs multiple times a year, so this isn’t exactly breaking any new ground. And they’ll whine about the NPCs too. Plenty of precedent for it after watching how they reacted to the Trig invasion, diamond rats, Drifters, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Seydin\_Alisander](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/seydin_alisander/32/361376_2.png) [@Seydin\_Alisander](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Seydin_Alisander)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2023, 2:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694/448 "2023-04-03T14:37:57Z")
Fair enough. Enough said ---
**Author:** ![Klaatu\_Barada\_nikto](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/klaatu_barada_nikto/32/360937_2.png) [@Klaatu\_Barada\_nikto](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Klaatu_Barada_nikto)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2023, 2:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694/449 "2023-04-03T14:43:22Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > This logic of course stems from a fundamental misunderstanding of how the economy functions Sounds like it stems more from your overactive imagination than anything else. Are you a fiction writer? You could sell books with an imagination like yours. ---
**Author:** ![Snowflake\_Tem](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/snowflake_tem/32/432971_2.png) [@Snowflake\_Tem](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Snowflake_Tem)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2023, 7:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694/450 "2023-04-03T19:12:27Z")
> [@Klaatu\_Barada\_nikto](#): > > You could sell books with an imagination like yours. Would that not be a bookseller? Are you a publisher? > [@Seydin\_Alisander](#): > > The only way it would work is if the PVE server was story driven. Not economic or resource driven. T Are you aware of [The New Eden News](https://universe.eveonline.com/new-eden-news)? Did you miss the [Fiction Portal - EVE Online Forums](https://forums.eveonline.com/c/fiction-portal/38) The storey telling in EVE is collaborative and has some striking amateur and professional story tellers in association with it. It is a finer art than you seem to be promoting. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694.md?page=20) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-isnt-dying-but-it-isnt-growing-my-answer-that-devs-wont-recognize/393694.md?page=22)