# Eve Markets are collapsing and the 'Hands off Approach' isn't working (trade is dead and Jita killed it) **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Tags:** high-sec\ **Created:** [November 7, 2023, 11:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801 "2023-11-07T23:22:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 5:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801/41 "2023-11-08T17:34:25Z")
You should join a good nullsec outfit, no kidding šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![Sienna\_Massilia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sienna_massilia/32/390388_2.png) [@Sienna\_Massilia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sienna_Massilia)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 5:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801/42 "2023-11-08T17:44:08Z")
Iā€™m afraid thatā€™s not up to me. Have to be accepted to the club. Null corporations want characters with high SP to be useful and if some donā€™t then they just want to exploit my time for their benefit. I would much rather be part of a Lowsec corporationā€¦ But right now I belong to a corporation in Caldari space ( itā€™s not an alt corporation, lol ) I havenā€™t participated in the fleets yet as Iā€™m waiting for my headset to arrive but I will see where it leads me and reconsider my options down the line if Iā€™m not happy with them. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 5:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801/43 "2023-11-08T17:50:35Z")
Fair enough. Just donā€™t take the comments from non-nullsecā€™ers at face value. The primary concern during recruitment is "how do you provide your income (which means ā€œcan you replace what you will lose), and what role can you play to defend our space (even the lowest t1 ewar is helpful)ā€. Thatā€™s it, unless aiming for a top tier elite pvp group. Just donā€™t postpone it too long, you are/will be ready for nullsec life before you will admit it šŸ˜ƒ And it does open up the next levels of the rabbit holeā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Sienna\_Massilia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sienna_massilia/32/390388_2.png) [@Sienna\_Massilia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sienna_Massilia)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 6:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801/44 "2023-11-08T18:02:58Z")
@Wadiest_Yong I keep my eyes and ears peeled for opportunities, at the same time knowing that I still have a long way to go to be a decent pilot and feel comfortable in space. I havenā€™t even been part of a fleet yet and donā€™t even know fleet mechanics so Iā€™m still walkingā€¦ but running, yes, later. One thing is certain, Hisec isnā€™t my cup of tea. I very much like Lowsec and maybe something may happen that I join a Nullsec group. Weā€™ll see šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/516281_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 6:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801/45 "2023-11-08T18:11:46Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > Expecting a good size of the player base out of high, null, w-space and pochven to relocate there to make it worthwhile and feasible is one of the flaws. Thats a fair point. I agree that under the current mechanics it is pretty much impossible to create the infrastructure for **mass** -mining there. (for me, thats another point to question the current mechanics, but thats another topic). > [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > They do to some small degree, but only to meet their own demands, not to put surplus on the market. The infrastructure cannot even be built there to support the work - it would all become transport transport transport (with lancer dreads on top now for good measure, yes, they even compounded the problem recently). Well, if Lowsec would offer options to make good profits with an ā€˜expeditionā€™ style of mining, these Ores would probably _not_ be mined by the local power groups for their own demand but by mining-soldiers-of-fortune that go in, extract Ores and leave to refine and sell the Isogen. So it would exactly do what it should do: go into the market and put the price under pressure. Probable Sigs and Gated Anomalies would support such a playstyle to a degree because your mining crew wouldnā€™t be simply prey on a platter to get tackled and ganked by the next best cloaky cynoship that passes by. You can put some effort into your crews security, by watching Dscan for probe attempts or get distance from the gate-warpin, drop decloak containers, leave a suicide-bricktackler there to delay ambushes. It would allow _tactical gameplay_ that could result in a loss if the opponent is better, but also in high rewards if done right. Maybe the densitiy of the Isogen Ores in such Sites has to be boosted, so people _could_ really make a small fortune with a successful ops and the amounts sneaked out of Lowsec under the noses of those trying to prevent it are worthwile. However I agree that these amounts will probably not enough to solve the whole problem, you made a good point here. Maybe the solution is to break the Isogen monopoly just slightly, by adding some Isogen to Null, WH and HighOres to have a _base_ flow of incoming Isogen while still give Lowsec the _by far_ superior sources. @Sienna_Massilia yeah, it is possible to live there as a small (not to say ā€˜insignificantā€™) solo miner, but thats not having any impact on the problem discussed here, since the amounts you could mine and bring out of LS to put into the markets is simply too low. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 6:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801/46 "2023-11-08T18:14:59Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > However I agree that these amounts will probably not enough to solve the whole problem, you made a good point here. Maybe the solution is to break the Isogen monopoly just slightly, by adding some Isogen to Null, WH and HighOres to have a _base_ flow of incoming Isogen while still give Lowsec the _by far_ superior sources. Appreciated, sir !! ---
**Author:** ![Sienna\_Massilia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sienna_massilia/32/390388_2.png) [@Sienna\_Massilia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sienna_Massilia)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 6:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801/47 "2023-11-08T18:26:13Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > it is possible to live there as a small (not to say ā€˜insignificantā€™) solo miner, but thats not having any impact on the problem discussed here, since the amounts you could mine and bring out of LS to put into the markets is simply too low Yes. But I do like this idea of yours > [@Syzygium](#): > > Maybe the solution is to break the Isogen monopoly just slightly, by adding some Isogen to Null, WH and HighOres to have a _base_ flow of incoming Isogen while still give Lowsec the _by far_ superior sources I think that all the different kinds of ores should exist in all parts of space, only certain ores could easily be found and others could exist in smaller quantities. It may not be realistic for immersion but it would help the supply slowly catch up to the demand. PS: Of course, with CCP insisting that all the players go to Null, the most expensive and rare ores will remain in Nullsec for those corporations to keep their monopoly. I bet most of the markets supply come from Nullsec. ---
**Author:** ![Eysk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eysk/32/449720_2.png) [@Eysk](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eysk)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 10:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801/48 "2023-11-08T22:29:20Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > Maybe the solution is to break the Isogen monopoly just slightly, by adding some Isogen to Null, WH and HighOres to have a _base_ flow of incoming Isogen while still give Lowsec the _by far_ superior sources. You mean like ore anomalies in 0.5? Ytirium is already a thing. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/516281_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2023, 12:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801/49 "2023-11-09T00:47:17Z")
> [@Eysk](#): > > You mean like ore anomalies in 0.5? Ytirium is already a thing. Has CCP released informations how much of that stuff really is mined / how large the impact of it is on the Isogen supply? Can these A0 systems ā€˜feedā€™ a noticable amount of miners or itā€™s just some flakes on the cake? ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2023, 5:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801/50 "2023-11-09T05:22:52Z")
I believe it is more akin to dust than to rocks. ---
**Author:** ![Eysk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eysk/32/449720_2.png) [@Eysk](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eysk)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2023, 6:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801/51 "2023-11-09T06:17:23Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > Has CCP released informations how much of that stuff really is mined / how large the impact of it is on the Isogen supply? Ytirium certainly is being mined heavily, but Iā€™m not sure how much of a dent that is making into the isogen market. I imagine not a big one. But Iā€™m saying that the mechanism exists, and could be expanded. ---
**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2023, 7:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801/52 "2023-11-09T07:43:23Z")
> [@ZombieFX](#): > > this point. If there is an exploit the Eve pilots found it and made it ā€˜cultureā€™ and doing anything else gets you laughed at. I dare argue that they know more about the game than some dev Shouldnā€™t that actually make Amarr a better tradehub? Because it is too far to Jita from there? Amarr is actually not that bad, as long as you donā€™t want to buy minmatar tech. But that is alright. Other tradehubs dead indeed, minmatar especially. Rens especially - was buying stuff from there for a two days, the third day the stuff I was buying was extremely overpriced - someone noticed I am buying the goods, bought it all (there wasnā€™t that much to begin with) and put it back for 130x higher price (130million). And it has been a 4 days already and nobod undercut himā€¦ I agree with OP and I was saying it as well, the tradehubs are broken and in need of a fix. But before we propose a mechanics to fix it, maybe we should first estimate how did this happen. In my opinion it is simply because getting to Jita is so easy. Jumpfreighters specifically. Filaments might have also impact Jita being a tradehub to stage from. ---
**Author:** ![Vuhdo\_Rin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vuhdo_rin/32/378868_2.png) [@Vuhdo\_Rin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vuhdo_Rin)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2023, 7:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801/53 "2023-11-09T07:58:12Z")
> [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > I agree with OP and I was saying it as well, the tradehubs are broken and in need of a fix. why they are broken ? oO its just supply and demand ! if its to expensive then dont buy it ! if you still buy it then it works perfect ! btw ā€¦ you cant fix anything whats not ā€œdefektā€ if ppl decide not to trade on a market then what should CCP fix ? btw 2ā€¦ Rens isnt the tradehub ā€¦ ! Hek is ! and everytime iĀ“m in hek i can get mostly everything for a okish price what i need ! > [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > But before we propose a mechanics to fix it, maybe we should first estimate how did this happen. In my opinion it is simply because getting to Jita is so easy. Jumpfreighters specifically. Filaments might have also impact Jita being a tradehub to stage from. what mechanic you wanna install to ā€œfixā€ a market which is player based ? xD you can get very easy to all other tradehubs ! so why ppl decide to stay in Jita ? because they can get everything for good price ! btw3ā€¦ i YOU wanna fix a problem which doesnt exist then YOU can supply the markets on all other tradehubs and get lot of isk šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2023, 8:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801/54 "2023-11-09T08:37:56Z")
> [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > Shouldnā€™t that actually make Amarr a better tradehub? Because it is too far to Jita from there? Not if they only have the low population that theyā€™ve always had south of Niarja. Whatever is produced in hisec has a 75% chance of being produced north of Niarja, at least in theory. Itā€™s probably even higher. Part of that production used to stream southwards to Amarr. always interesting because of the difference in price setting. It gave a certain dynamic to the flow of goods. With the only relatively safe hisec route of 45 jumps between Jita and Amarr, fewer players bother to move goods down from the north. The Jita bias becomes stronger, and the major exporters from outside of hisec will pick Jita by default because of that bias. They have no reason to stock up Amarr more, or any other minor trade hub . For the other two (former) trade hubs, they were even in a poor condition before the loss of Niarja. Their percentage of market movements was already low to begin with. And the almighty Jita trade hub continued to concentrate the market orders even more, a situation probably exarcerbated by nearby TTT in Perimeter one jump away and, to a minor extent, other player run networks of minor trade hubs from structures that offer lower costs. ---
**Author:** ![Craw\_Fisher\_Fisher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/craw_fisher_fisher/32/466365_2.png) [@Craw\_Fisher\_Fisher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Craw_Fisher_Fisher)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2023, 9:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801/55 "2023-11-09T09:25:24Z")
- **We need a centralized Eve Online Market in the center of the galaxy for trade.** We use to have a centralized market in the early days of eve. They took this away because how ineffecient servers were. We now have the ā€œreinforced nodeā€ mechanism CCP designed to allow thousands of players in a single system. Use it. - **Remove Eden-Com and Triglavians hold on highsec and give it back to the players.** Why on godā€™s earth CCP decided it should be able to interfere this greatly with player trade is beyond me. Neither Edencom or Triglavians should be more unique to the normal rats we kill in belts or Forsaken Hubs. Plus it is a massive pain in the ass to fly though particular systems because of standings with a NPC faction, Which you canā€™t remain neutral with. - **Remove Residue and asteroid changes** Residue is an abhorrent and convoluted system that brings little to the game when Rorquals use Excavators to mine litterally everything better than barges and exhumers. The Asteroid changes suck and nobody likes them also massively impacting markets. ---
**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2023, 9:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801/56 "2023-11-09T09:49:07Z")
> [@Vuhdo\_Rin](#): > > why they are broken ? oO its just supply and demand ! if its to expensive then dont buy it ! if you still buy it then it works perfect ! Uhhh. No sorry. I am not going into details with someone like you. > [@Vuhdo\_Rin](#): > > btw 2ā€¦ Rens isnt the tradehub ā€¦ ! Hek is ! and everytime iĀ“m in hek i can get mostly everything for a okish price what i need ! Uhhh. It is worse than Rens, especially because the items are split between station and citadel. The two ā€œtradehubsā€ are completely defunct and the only thing you can buy there is a gank catalyst fit. > [@Vuhdo\_Rin](#): > > btw3ā€¦ i YOU wanna fix a problem which doesnt exist then YOU can supply the markets on all other tradehubs and get lot of isk šŸ˜‰ Uhhh. Are you an actual trader with insight into the issue? All you wrote screams of lack of understanding. What you suggest is not worth it because the ā€œit is too easy to get to Jitaā€ applies for customers as well. Pochven highway, JF, BRs (majority of EVE players can fly it now). So very few players are buying at other tradehubs. Mostly players with bad standing to caldari, gallente militia, BF wardecced corps and Jita haters. Everyone else will just go to Jita to buy it even slightly cheaper. And to supply a tradehub you need to dedicate all orders on close to perfect trading toon and even that wonā€™t be enough. Also you canā€™t just craft it, current meta is to use meta stuff, never tech1 because of a price. The profit you can make doing this is way too low to be worth it, which is why nobody does it. Without setting up these market traps like I mentioned above. ---
**Author:** ![Vuhdo\_Rin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vuhdo_rin/32/378868_2.png) [@Vuhdo\_Rin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vuhdo_Rin)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2023, 10:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801/58 "2023-11-09T10:50:35Z")
> [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > Uhhh. No sorry. I am not going into details with someone like you. maybe you dont know anything about market ? its realy easy ! if its worth to supply a market then its gonna happen ! if its not worth to then it doesnt happen ā€¦ its easy supply and demand ! sorry if you dont understand easy things > [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > Uhhh. Are you an actual trader with insight into the issue? actual question is ā†’ are you a trader that you know its an issue ? or do you only think your are a trader and think there are some issues ? > [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > What you suggest is not worth it because the ā€œit is too easy to get to Jitaā€ applies for customers as well. Pochven highway, JF, BRs (majority of EVE players can fly it now). So very few players are buying at other tradehubs. Mostly players with bad standing to caldari, gallente militia, BF wardecced corps and Jita haters. Everyone else will just go to Jita to buy it even slightly cheaper. and there you have your answer ! its not a problem because everyone can be in jita in a vers short time šŸ˜‰ so why you need other big tradehubs ? why you need other tradehubs if the main tradhub we have do the job perfectly ? you just split to much effort if you need to supply other tradehubs with everything you want like jita ā€¦ and still you can get lots of stuff in all other hubs if you want it ! maybe its not that cheap like jita ā€¦ but who cares ? if you want something then go to jita ! ---
**Author:** ![Prometheus\_XRay](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/prometheus_xray/32/389871_2.png) [@Prometheus\_XRay](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Prometheus_XRay)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2023, 11:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801/60 "2023-11-09T11:48:22Z")
> [@Wesfahrn](#): > > I suggest NPC hauling service as part of the solution 100%. Why is it so taboo? * * * ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/b/3/1/b311372ab7115dbeb50997cc01277b63a54b6567.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/516281_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2023, 2:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801/61 "2023-11-09T14:32:48Z")
> [@Prometheus\_XRay](#): > > 100%. Why is it so taboo? Because itā€™s a stupid idea and it has been explained a dozen times why it is a stupid idea. @topic: As another point to add, Iā€™d like to mention that the Pochven Highway has greatly benefited Jita above all other hubs. No matter where you produce or farm your stuff, you can always load a DST full of billions, teleport into a Border Pochven System, cloak up, sit out your timer and teleport back to Caldari Space with a Proximity Filament. There are rarely gatecamps in there that can stop a BlockadeRunner or Cloak/MWD/Nullified/Warpcorestabbed DST. At least I have lost none so far. ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2023, 2:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801/62 "2023-11-09T14:44:37Z")
> [@Vuhdo\_Rin](#): > > if its worth to supply a market then its gonna happen ! if its not worth to then it doesnt happen Very good point. Just because someone disagrees with what is happening doesnā€™t mean itā€™s not a natural result of the market being the market. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801.md?page=4)