# Eve Markets are collapsing and the 'Hands off Approach' isn't working (trade is dead and Jita killed it) **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Tags:** high-sec\ **Created:** [November 7, 2023, 11:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801 "2023-11-07T23:22:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darkestkhan_eriker/32/390091_2.png) [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/darkestkhan_Eriker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 3:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801/176 "2023-11-12T15:45:21Z")
> [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > Ok so, I was just buying Large ‘Vehemence’ Shockwave Charge in Hek for 1.004.000 ISK. Oh, that module (and friends) is going up in prices 🙂 You are welcome. They make for great source of minerals. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 3:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801/177 "2023-11-12T15:46:40Z")
don’t forget the grapplers !! Grab them all ! ---
**Author:** ![darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darkestkhan_eriker/32/390091_2.png) [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/darkestkhan_Eriker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 4:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801/179 "2023-11-12T16:09:32Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > don’t forget the grapplers !! Grab them all ! and warp field thingy 🙂 This reminds me, I have to ship the few hundreds I already bought - to Hek for melting. > [@Wesfahrn](#): > > Are you aware you need to pay millions of ISK for someone to pick up the contract? And are you aware there are probably many times more that shipments that arent worth paying millions of ISK to have shipped. Its a big loss for the EVE economy You do realize that if it is not worth shipping then it isn’t a loss? Or what? You ship it yourself? But you could have done something else in that time. Something that likely pays more than it costs to pay for shipping. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 4:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801/180 "2023-11-12T16:13:48Z")
> [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](#): > > and warp field thingy the orange-purple things ? HIC bubble ? I’ve not bought them since a bit, but I remember they were fine … actually just checked, they are still worth. ---
**Author:** ![darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darkestkhan_eriker/32/390091_2.png) [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/darkestkhan_Eriker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 4:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801/182 "2023-11-12T16:14:58Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > the orange-purple things ? HIC bubble ? 5.2M right now. They are great for melting. ---
**Author:** ![darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darkestkhan_eriker/32/390091_2.png) [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/darkestkhan_Eriker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 4:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801/183 "2023-11-12T16:15:37Z")
> [@Wesfahrn](#): > > There is already NPC protecting people in high sec There is not one. There is a punitive one, but it isn’t protective one. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 4:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801/184 "2023-11-12T16:16:28Z")
> [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](#): > > And pass the overhead to the clients. In my experience it is \<2% overhead. Yeah I wrote 5% here but it’s max for long distance. Always keep an error margin. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > I can ask people to move my stuff for less than 5% of the cost of said stuff. > [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](#): > > 5.2M right now. They are great for melting. Do they save volume ? I know they are even worth melt and resell but if they also reduce volume then it’s better. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 4:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801/185 "2023-11-12T16:18:12Z")
> [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > So you want to tell me that if we lower the taxes in Hek, which will drive new traders to come here and stock market, 1. No. I’m saying traders don’t care (and won’t be driven) because you said so yourself: > [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > I can say that I won’t suddenly trade in Hek because of a 1% taxes cut. (which I think is true) 1. Since when does a dynamic tax system result in lower taxes overall ? At best you have a temporary benefit somewhere for a little while, before it even outs again. 2. Since when does lowering taxes lower prices ? That _is_ exactly the point where traders start collecting the tax themselves, as they keep prices at the same level. In the real world there might be an investigation (usually without consequences), in New Eden there wouldn’t even be that. Of course lower taxes are good for profits, lol. 3. It’s extremely unlikely ccp would consider reducing an isk sink. Conclusion: new tax systems will not drive the creation of trade hubs. Even the TTC wasn’t able to surpass Jita, with all the “benefits” they were enjoying. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 4:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801/186 "2023-11-12T16:21:49Z")
> [@Wesfahrn](#): > > No its not. yes it is. You’re talking risk free transport of goods. It is not and should not ever be possible in hisec or anywhere else. And it will not. On to the next idea. ---
**Author:** ![Wesfahrn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wesfahrn/32/392292_2.png) [@Wesfahrn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wesfahrn)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 4:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801/187 "2023-11-12T16:23:21Z")
Its ok to pay ISK to reduce risk or increase convenicence 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 4:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801/188 "2023-11-12T16:25:24Z")
it’s against a fundamental principle of Eve : Location matters. And also, it’s off-topic. ---
**Author:** ![darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darkestkhan_eriker/32/390091_2.png) [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/darkestkhan_Eriker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 4:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801/190 "2023-11-12T16:30:24Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > Do they save volume ? I know they are even worth melt and resell but if they also reduce volume then it’s better. Yes. They are much smaller than the minerals you get. ---
**Author:** ![darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darkestkhan_eriker/32/390091_2.png) [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/darkestkhan_Eriker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 4:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801/191 "2023-11-12T16:31:54Z")
> [@Wesfahrn](#): > > sending items in high sec is about providing an alternative to logistics grind No such thing as logistics grind. Pay haulers and your grind is gone. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 4:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801/192 "2023-11-12T16:32:30Z")
> [@Wesfahrn](#): > > Its not off topic because a big reason you have to go to Jita to get stuff is logistical All the more reason to not have npc logistics, it would most likely kill a big part of gameplay. And add even more to the price of goods. > [@Wesfahrn](#): > > There is already NPC protecting high sec No such thing > [@Wesfahrn](#): > > Eve skill training system is about removing grind from the game **ERROR\_INVALID\_DATA** Please reboot ---
**Author:** ![darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darkestkhan_eriker/32/390091_2.png) [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/darkestkhan_Eriker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 4:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801/194 "2023-11-12T16:35:32Z")
> [@Wesfahrn](#): > > That is not realstic due to the price it costs. Only super high or super high volume is worth using cuirer contracts for. Its only for the rich I frequently make courier contracts with only 100-200M isk of cargo that fits into a tanked t1 hauler. And I pay 1M per jump. Which haulers are happy to move for. I just ensure that overhead doesn’t go above 2% (meaning the longer the route the higher the value of cargo that will be moved) ---
**Author:** ![Spacetramp\_Drago](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/spacetramp_drago/32/480922_2.png) [@Spacetramp\_Drago](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Spacetramp_Drago)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 4:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801/195 "2023-11-12T16:37:25Z")
> [@Wesfahrn](#): > > ergo an Item Mailing System. Aka Jita on Demand. Jitazon, I like it 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Nijushiho](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/doctor_nijushiho/32/385189_2.png) [@Doctor\_Nijushiho](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Doctor_Nijushiho)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 4:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801/196 "2023-11-12T16:41:10Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > Scattering people around forcefully, in a game where efficiency, organisation and enjoyment go hand in hand with _grouping people and their activities into **viable** clusters_, through **taxes** would be another big mistake. You could ask players to pick a loyalty, and then zap their standings in empire high sec for the other three empires. If you were basically a criminal everywhere but your own home, you’d do business there and not try to go to the Big Box Store for the whole galaxy. I have played in a nullsec alliance with a keepstar that had a regional market. There was very little you couldn’t get there. Our industry people were great at producing everything you could imagine and jumping in what couldn’t be found. Some must have built their entire playstyle around running jump freighters non stop to stock up the keepstar market with goods. I never found it necessary to go high sec to buy things. I eventually trained an alt into jump freighters and started hauling things myself part-time to help out. There’s a problem here where certain goods are only found in certain places, and so the more you try to decentralize people, the more likely it is that you cannot find pith type modules in amarr or centus type modules in gallente. You could end up with four separately bad regional markets that no one likes and read lots of complaints about “Eve is dying because you can’t even fit up a good ship any more.” Maybe the idea of regional markets is not really a problem. Yulai was done away with by CCP breaking stargate connections to it because they couldn’t handle the server load of everyone in the game going to one system to buy everything. That was 17 years ago? Maybe things have changed and a central market hub is exactly what should exist. ---
**Author:** ![Vuhdo\_Rin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vuhdo_rin/32/378868_2.png) [@Vuhdo\_Rin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vuhdo_Rin)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 4:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801/198 "2023-11-12T16:44:48Z")
> [@Wesfahrn](#): > > cant believe that noone can figure out that if you could send items around in high sec in return for ISK then players are more likely to spread out and markets are more likely to expand you can … called curier conrtract ---
**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 4:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801/199 "2023-11-12T16:46:48Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > Since when does a dynamic tax system result in lower taxes overall ? At best you have a temporary benefit somewhere for a little while, before it even outs again. I don’t follow. Why is this even needed? The end goal of the proposal is not for players to earn more ISK long term. > [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > Since when does lowering taxes lower prices ? That _is_ exactly the point where traders start collecting the tax themselves, as they keep prices at the same level. In the real world there might be an investigation (usually without consequences), in New Eden there wouldn’t even be that. Of course lower taxes are good for profits, lol. You mean globally, like real world or EVE? Because in real world we have several instances lately where cutting taxes resulted in a significant price decrease. If you mean EVE I don’t know because we only get higher taxes, I don’t recall lowering taxes. But my answer is that whenever there is competition. Because the competition can suddenly go lower than you and undercut when they previously wouldn’t. > [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > It’s extremely unlikely ccp would consider reducing an isk sink. Well yes of course. CCP doesn’t read the forum and doesn’t listen to the players. I consider this argument irrelevant because then no proposal is worth to discuss right? It is just a theorycrafting. ---
**Author:** ![Vuhdo\_Rin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vuhdo_rin/32/378868_2.png) [@Vuhdo\_Rin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vuhdo_Rin)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 4:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801/200 "2023-11-12T16:47:12Z")
@ISD_Traindriver can we pls close this thread ? its now only offtopic and got spammed with reopening a closed thread ! [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801.md?page=8) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-markets-are-collapsing-and-the-hands-off-approach-isnt-working-trade-is-dead-and-jita-killed-it/426801.md?page=10)