# EVE Online Ecosystem Outlook **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** official, devblog\ **Created:** [March 30, 2020, 6:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809 "2020-03-30T18:10:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 11:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809/239 "2020-03-30T23:37:59Z")
> [@Castor\_Raines](#): > > this sucks much worse for small groups. **ANYTHING** will suck much worse for small groups. This is something that… honestly, I don’t understand **how** this is not immediately and universally understood. Any change will **always** hit small groups harder. Any adaptation small groups can come up with, large groups can implement too. A group of 10 people is nice, but a group of 100 people is _10 groups of 10 people_, when 10 people is the best size for the job. That’s why humans keep organizing themselves into bigger groups: bigger groups respond to crises better. The problems that arise IRL with larger groups pretty much come down to inefficiencies, incompetence, and corruption, and at this point in human society, we’ve pretty well worked out very effective ways to minimize those problems for groups the size of even the largest EVE alliance. ---
**Author:** ![Ember\_Fireheart](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ember_fireheart/32/278556_2.png) [@Ember\_Fireheart](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ember_Fireheart)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 11:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809/240 "2020-03-30T23:38:49Z")
Yea this is not about small groups or big group’s it a base multiplier that effects everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Tobiant\_Ormand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tobiant_ormand/32/327222_2.png) [@Tobiant\_Ormand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tobiant_Ormand)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 11:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809/241 "2020-03-30T23:43:02Z")
I don’t know who ‘we’ are, or for how many ‘years’ ‘we’ have been asking for it… Hell, if asking for it for years works, then let’s ask for cloaky ships to burn cap as fast as a Basi does w/o cap-chain. While we’re at it, let’s ask for all capital ships to be removed from the game too. Troll: 2 Newb: 0 - I count myself as the troll this time 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ember\_Fireheart](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ember_fireheart/32/278556_2.png) [@Ember\_Fireheart](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ember_Fireheart)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 11:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809/242 "2020-03-30T23:43:12Z")
If your mining in High sec this patch will actually make thing’s better for you, miners in high sec make ridiculously low amounts of isk compared to the big boys in null, by bringing the lower incomes up and the higher incomes down the isk becomes more valuable and what you are spending your time on means you have more purchasing power in comparison with those around you. Also with the moon mining having t1 removed that just means that the other minerals will become more expensive. ---
**Author:** ![Castor\_Raines](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/castor_raines/32/171489_2.png) [@Castor\_Raines](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Castor_Raines)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 11:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809/244 "2020-03-30T23:43:43Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > **ANYTHING** will suck much worse for small groups. This is something that… honestly, I don’t understand **how** this is not immediately and universally understood. Any change will **always** hit small groups harder. Any adaptation small groups can come up with, large groups can implement too. A group of 10 people is nice, but a group of 100 people is _10 groups of 10 people_, when 10 people is the best size for the job. So what problem will this solve? The game loses a whole bunch of small groups, while the big ones grit their teeth and live through the change. Now you have the same game, but with less small groups. Some might come back, and others may not bother. The big groups stay big, and since they could weather the storm, they go back to what they were doing. I think even the big players/fleets will unsub some of their miners with this update. Let’s hope the hit to the monthly player count isn’t too big. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 11:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809/245 "2020-03-30T23:43:53Z")
> [@Tobiant\_Ormand](#): > > I don’t know who ‘we’ are We are all Kosh. ---
**Author:** ![Tobiant\_Ormand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tobiant_ormand/32/327222_2.png) [@Tobiant\_Ormand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tobiant_Ormand)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 11:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809/246 "2020-03-30T23:44:42Z")
All I know is I ain’t shipping 500M m3 of tritanium from anywhere. Ya better be compressing that Veldspar 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ember\_Fireheart](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ember_fireheart/32/278556_2.png) [@Ember\_Fireheart](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ember_Fireheart)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 11:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809/247 "2020-03-30T23:45:33Z")
We as in the people complaining about not being able to find fights as solo / small gang pvper’s which has a direct correlation to super powers null blocks being super concentrated and safe, the resources being split up means people split up and then more openings for pvp will be available, everyone wins even the null blocks because they won’t be bored out of their mind. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 11:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809/248 "2020-03-30T23:46:03Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Sure, but they certain have agreements between them not to invade core regions and systems even when at war if it’s not a major all-out war. You seem to be mistaking ‘not at war’ for ‘not a major all-out war’. If we are at _war_, it is an all-out war. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Well that’s definitely not true, there’s been plenty of them. Most wars between null powers have not resulted in the destruction of a major null alliances. Most are limited down to handfuls of systems, maybe a region. > > I think ultimately the issue here is a difference in definiton of war. In my view you can’t really have null powers taking a system from each other then say “that wasn’t a war it was just a bit of a fight”, but it sounds like a war to you has to be somewhat declared as such. If null powers are taking systems from one another in this day and age, no, there is no previous agreement of ‘don’t invade core regions’. Your information is _at least_ as outdated as the old B0TLRD Accords. ---
**Author:** ![Tobiant\_Ormand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tobiant_ormand/32/327222_2.png) [@Tobiant\_Ormand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tobiant_Ormand)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 11:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809/249 "2020-03-30T23:46:13Z")
I don’t know what Kosh is…and why can I see where you are with the map symbol? I want that!!! ---
**Author:** ![Ember\_Fireheart](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ember_fireheart/32/278556_2.png) [@Ember\_Fireheart](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ember_Fireheart)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 11:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809/250 "2020-03-30T23:46:17Z")
Don’t ship it hold it : } I’m not sure if you have been watching the market but trite is going crazy high in price from this update :]. You must be loving this with all that stock you have. ---
**Author:** ![Ugren\_Okaski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ugren_okaski/32/181459_2.png) [@Ugren\_Okaski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ugren_Okaski)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 11:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809/251 "2020-03-30T23:46:21Z")
> [@Tobiant\_Ormand](#): > > 500M m3 That must be awful to transport all by yourself. That’s what, like 500 freighters? ---
**Author:** ![Tobiant\_Ormand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tobiant_ormand/32/327222_2.png) [@Tobiant\_Ormand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tobiant_Ormand)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 11:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809/252 "2020-03-30T23:46:50Z")
Give or take, yeah. ---
**Author:** ![Tobiant\_Ormand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tobiant_ormand/32/327222_2.png) [@Tobiant\_Ormand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tobiant_Ormand)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 11:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809/253 "2020-03-30T23:47:30Z")
I have no stockpile. Wish I did, but I was trying to save up for a Jump Freighter…never quite made it. And by save up, I mean save up ISK by selling ore. I’m not a builder. ---
**Author:** ![Castor\_Raines](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/castor_raines/32/171489_2.png) [@Castor\_Raines](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Castor_Raines)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 11:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809/254 "2020-03-30T23:47:50Z")
> [@Ember\_Fireheart](#): > > If your mining in High sec this patch will actually make thing’s better for you, miners in high sec make ridiculously low amounts of isk compared to the big boys in null, by bringing the lower incomes up and the higher incomes down the isk becomes more valuable and what you are spending your time on means you have more purchasing power in comparison with those around you. > > Also with the moon mining having t1 removed that just means that the other minerals will become more expensive. It won’t because in a lot of areas the belts are often stripped within a few hours. And even when you find a quieter zone, you still have to compete with NPC fleets which do a very good job of grinding rocks. Not to mention there are a lot of miners in HS now, since the Lifeblood update brought a lot of industrialists to the game. It may be ok if you just mine, since prices will go up - but if you also build, this means having to start buying things like nocx & zydrine from the market again (like pre HS moon mining). But since all moons are losing normal ore, this means relying on shipments from null. ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 11:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809/255 "2020-03-30T23:50:13Z")
> [@Castor\_Raines](#): > > you still have to compete with NPC fleets which do a very good job of grinding rocks So run them off. All it takes is a single shot and they will warp out and stop mining the ore. As far as no ore being left in static belts later in the day, simply take 5 to 10 minutes to clear out an Emerging Conduit and mine in that for hours on end. ---
**Author:** ![Ember\_Fireheart](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ember_fireheart/32/278556_2.png) [@Ember\_Fireheart](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ember_Fireheart)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 11:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809/256 "2020-03-30T23:50:17Z")
Yea but that also means that there will be a huge high sec demand for it and the null guys will for sure bring ton’s down. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 11:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809/257 "2020-03-30T23:50:51Z")
> [@Castor\_Raines](#): > > So what problem will this solve? Right now there are systemic issues where CCP has decided that the problem stems from an overabundance of raw materials. I don’t necessarily agree with them, but that’s the problem they see. And rather than attempting a piecemeal approach that tries to balance one area without altering the others, they’re wiping the entire slate clean to start from scratch. From what’s been said, they feel this is necessary, because continuing to just address this one bit or that one bit will only continue to make the problems worse in the long-term. And frankly, I’m inclined to agree with that part: the piecemeal approach has only created lots and lots of rules with their own specific exceptions and variations, and exceptions to the variations and variations on the exceptions. And the more they do it, the harder and harder it becomes to actually try to get everything working together in a way that resembles a coherent, healthy game. Past experience has shown that we are long _past_ the point where this kind of game-wide ‘burn it down and rebuild’ was needed… if anything, I think this probably doesn’t go far _enough_. But hpefully, we’ll se a similar ‘burn it down and rebuild’ attitude toward supercapitals, structures, and sov, too. ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 11:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809/258 "2020-03-30T23:51:54Z")
> [@Castor\_Raines](#): > > this means having to start buying things like nocx & zydrine from the market again With the introduction of Emerging Conduits, the ONLY mineral that you can’t mine in High Sec now is Morphite. You won’t have to buy or import anything except that. ---
**Author:** ![Ember\_Fireheart](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ember_fireheart/32/278556_2.png) [@Ember\_Fireheart](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ember_Fireheart)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 11:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809/259 "2020-03-30T23:52:13Z")
I think as long as players feel they don’t need 10000 super capitals then that part will balance it self out, although players might be sentimental about all the effort they took to get them. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809.md?page=11) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809.md?page=13)