# EVE Online Ecosystem Outlook **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** official, devblog\ **Created:** [March 30, 2020, 6:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809 "2020-03-30T18:10:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 10:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809/641 "2020-04-19T22:19:06Z")
Adding upkeep costs to ships has a massive impact on areas of the game other than supers & titans, and still doesn’t really solve the issue, since then it just adds an isk farming requirement to the game to keep your titan fleet at it’s massive unassailable size. So even if upkeep costs are introduced, you still need to change titans & supers. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 10:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809/642 "2020-04-19T22:45:17Z")
No it doesn’t have a thousand BUT it does have more than any other navy on the planet - Ensuring dominance. Eve works exactly the same way - Just need to have more than your enemy. NB; Those with the largest stockpiles of Supers and Titans are also the richest groups. You know the ones that simply laugh at CCP’s attempts to slow their growth or limit their dominance. ---
**Author:** ![Elwha\_Lynx](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elwha_lynx/32/246048_2.png) [@Elwha\_Lynx](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elwha_Lynx)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 11:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809/643 "2020-04-19T23:12:14Z")
> [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > NB; Those with the largest stockpiles of Supers and Titans are also the richest groups. You know the ones that simply laugh at CCP’s attempts to slow their growth or limit their dominance. Actually they’ve done the opposite of laughing at every change… crying the loudest at even the smallest changes. The logical addition of capital maintenance cost would go far to limit the size of those iron mountains–because ultimately the game would be healthier if CCP taxes wealth instead of income. Other ways could be outright random destruction from triglave or other threats attracted to overdeveloped parts of null. Until the iron mountains are reduced eve will remain unhealthy and discussions about it will be as anemic as the last CSM one (lots of shrugs). ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 11:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809/644 "2020-04-19T23:17:26Z")
> [@Elwha\_Lynx](#): > > The logical addition of capital maintenance cost would go far to limit the size of those iron mountains But it would limit everyone without those huge wallets even more, and wouldn’t change the fact that you need supers to fight supers. In of itself it isn’t the most terrible idea, though holding characters and people taking breaks from EVE really mess with it, but it won’t solve the problem, it will just scale it down a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Abdullah-Sekir-Bashka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/abdullah-sekir-bashka/32/182573_2.png) [@Abdullah-Sekir-Bashka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Abdullah-Sekir-Bashka)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 11:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809/645 "2020-04-19T23:27:25Z")
Thanks CCP, thanks @CCP_Dopamine . You’ve drastically cut my income. Because of your adjustments, the Supers won’t be allowed to go ratting for a while and maybe not at all. Rorquals are no good either. Worst situation ever. For 5 hours almost a 100 million ISK. super! (not) Look at this, everyone is trying to get rid of Plex, this means only one thing, many don’t want to renew their accounts. This is not healthy. Keep it up!.. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/c/7/c7f0e29351935f320bdd2fdfbdfb371e6955ab62.jpeg) PS: just nerf ■■■■■■■ ice mining too. only one thing where multiboxer wasn’t “touched”…why not? ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 11:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809/646 "2020-04-19T23:29:38Z")
> [@Abdullah-Sekir-Bashka](#): > > the Supers won’t be allowed to go ratting for a while Allowed? Allowed by who? I mean, you can still press undock right and warp, CCP didn’t remove that. Don’t blame CCP for your alliance leadership telling you not to do things. ---
**Author:** ![Abdullah-Sekir-Bashka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/abdullah-sekir-bashka/32/182573_2.png) [@Abdullah-Sekir-Bashka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Abdullah-Sekir-Bashka)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 11:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809/647 "2020-04-19T23:35:42Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Don’t blame CCP for your alliance leadership telling you not to do things. They (alliance leadership) do it for obvious reasons. Only idiots wouldn’t understand. And apparently CCP wants it too. Only they don’t say HOW MUCH income is healthy. 10M /H? 10.5? IDK…Simply to say that it is earned too much is just weak. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 11:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809/648 "2020-04-19T23:38:10Z")
If you’re running L4s and you can’t afford to replace your ship… you need to run L3s. Always keep enough liquid to replace your ship. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 11:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809/649 "2020-04-19T23:40:50Z")
> [@Elwha\_Lynx](#): > > Actually they’ve done the opposite of laughing at every change… crying the loudest at even the smallest changes. Don’t confuse the response of individual players with the response of the organizations. We’re _fine_. And we’ll be fine, no matter what. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 11:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809/650 "2020-04-19T23:45:32Z")
> [@Abdullah-Sekir-Bashka](#): > > Look at this, everyone is trying to get rid of Plex, this means only one thing, many don’t want to renew their accounts. No, not true at all. That could also be a spike in how many people are _buying_ PLEX with real currency to try to sell it to stock up on ISK, for example. All you can really say from that is that demand, relative to supply, is weaker than it was a year ago. > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Don’t blame CCP for your alliance leadership telling you not to do things. Very true. If people want to be suicidal idiots, they’re more than capable of doing it. They won’t survive long enough to be saved, even if the fleet is ready to go[1] and the cyno’s already on-grid, but they can certainly _do_ it. > [@Abdullah-Sekir-Bashka](#): > > Only they don’t say HOW MUCH income is healthy. That’s because they haven’t figured that out yet: > 1. **Redistribution Phase** > In this phase, the location of the Healthy Range limits will be declared, and then the necessary changes to place the income within that range will be made. As it is not a static state, there are many moving parts and attributes that establish this range and their relative contribution. * * * 1. And right now, it ain’t. And it probably won’t be, for the foreseeable future. Those supercapitals are a lot more valuable as a fighting force than they are as big dumb ‘SHOOT ME’ signs… and that’s all ratting supers are now. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 11:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809/651 "2020-04-19T23:49:14Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > 1. And right now, it ain’t. And it probably won’t be, for the foreseeable future. Those supercapitals are a lot more valuable as a fighting force than they are as big dumb ‘SHOOT ME’ signs… and that’s all ratting supers are now. Well yes, that is most likely true. But that isn’t “Not Allowed by CCP”. That’s “It’s no longer economical”. Totally different complaint. ---
**Author:** ![Abdullah-Sekir-Bashka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/abdullah-sekir-bashka/32/182573_2.png) [@Abdullah-Sekir-Bashka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Abdullah-Sekir-Bashka)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 11:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809/652 "2020-04-19T23:53:42Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > That could also be a spike in how many people are _buying_ PLEX Spike? It’s ■■■■■■■ Niagara Falls. No one’s buying it. Everybody’s getting rid of it. AVg price of the order is close to the buy limit and it’s getting lower every day. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 11:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809/653 "2020-04-19T23:58:21Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > But that isn’t “Not Allowed by CCP”. That’s “It’s no longer economical”. > Totally different complaint. Yep! Totally agree there. Cuz it’s no longer economical. People need to dock their lazy butts up and get used to the new normal, because it’s not changing for at least 12-18 months. Learn to love the ratting Myrmidon. > [@Abdullah-Sekir-Bashka](#): > > It’s ■■■■■■■ Niagara Falls. Nah, it’s just correcting from years of unchecked mudflation. After all, once upon a time, PLEX was (adjusting for needing 500 of them now) running at would what now be 600k/PLEX. ---
**Author:** ![darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darkestkhan_eriker/32/390091_2.png) [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/darkestkhan_Eriker)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 12:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809/654 "2020-04-20T00:04:24Z")
> [@Aphrodite\_Sexy](#): > > such as to those T3 Cruisers which can klll battleships T3C can’t really kill battleships unless battleship in question is ■■■■ fit… all it takes is neut or two for all those powerful T3Cs to look for escape path. > [@Lord\_Kalus](#): > > No one will gank in a 300 mil ship that gets practically 0 insurance payouts uhmm… I think you have no clue at all how ganking works - starting with the fact that there is no insurance payout for ships destroyed by CONCORD. > [@zen-spfarm-002\_LSG](#): > > It is all set wrong, if we have suicide ganking peaceful traders in HS , why not have suicidal ganking of capital ships and titans in the null sector? It already exists and is called dreadbomb. Sometimes dreads survive, but usually you assume they are gonna be lost. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 12:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809/655 "2020-04-20T00:18:37Z")
> [@Elwha\_Lynx](#): > > Actually they’ve done the opposite of laughing at every change… crying the loudest at even the smallest changes I remember the last time the blocs had a “cry” about changes - Reality is if ANY of the changes CCP were tossing out affected the blocs the forums/reddit and any other form of social media would be full of their complaints. CCP is not aiming change in areas change needs to occur. Blanket nerfs like we are seeing affect the whole player base so nothing for the blocs to complain about - They still hold an overwhelming advantage. Until CCP takes the plunge and directs change where change is needed the game will continue to stagnate. The largest groups need reason to risk/fight - This will require CCP doing the hard yards, making unpopular changes and doing some REAL game development starting with - Changes to Sov, how it is taken and held - Then a complete rework of structure mechanics. It won’t happen, CCP just don’t have the resources/skillset to bring about the required changes. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 1:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809/656 "2020-04-20T01:05:16Z")
> [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > The largest groups need reason to risk/fight More, we need the removal of our biggest reasons _not_ to: 1. the need to keep huge fleets of supercapitals, 2. the annoying load of crap that is entosis warfare 3. Asset safety (it’s perfectly reasonable for them to maintain a way to let people come back to the game with their stuff intact, but while you’re playing, it shouldn’t be safe). Seriously, change those three, and we’ll gleefully get back to murdering one another. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 4:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809/657 "2020-04-20T04:55:53Z")
I completely agree. Now how the XXXX do we get CCP to make it happen. It seems to me that CCP lost everyone who had a pair big enough to make such changes. NB; I would pay 12 months subscription for each of my many accounts to see CCP - PROVE ME WRONG. Comeon CCP give me a bloody reason to play the game I devoted nearly 16 years to again. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 5:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809/658 "2020-04-20T05:18:51Z")
Honestly, I think Rattati’s looking for ways to get there. But it’s kind of like treating cancer in someone who’s been shot: sure, you’d love to get to remove the tumor, but first, you have to stop the bleeding. While they figure out how to _fix_ supers… step 1 is some form of ‘decrease the number getting made’. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 6:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809/659 "2020-04-20T06:39:09Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > While they figure out how to _fix_ supers… step 1 is some form of ‘decrease the number getting made’. Step one should be “redefining whats Supers are”. Making them harder to build only aides those with large amounts of them. As a rough idea (and something you and i have discussed before, a few years back) Motherships (Super carriers) should be just that, mobile Astra’s of a sort. Used to jump in squads of fleet members with ships. Once they land on grid the Super goes into a type of siege mode fueled by isotopes or the such. They would have no offensive capabilty but bonuses to EWAR for self defense (including current AOE modules). Titans have the same attributes but can carry more “front line troops” with an extra hold for reshipping on grid and limited tethering for those reshipping. Of course both would need large clone bays that would be selectable as respawn points for fleet members. Carriers as we know them would get buffed to become Super/Srtucture killers (remove light fighters and replace with heavy fighters) Dreads need HAWS removed to become the backbone of a capital fleet along side revamped carriers. Fax’s are just that, Super/Capital logistics - Their role is the key between winning and losing battles. This could, if done right tip the balance between those who have too many supers and those who don’t. Just bringing more Supers doesn’t guarantee a win because the enemy can just bring more dreads carriers and subcaps to slowly melt away the supers (faxes first lol). Dreads and carriers would not be useful for killing subcaps but very good at killing structures and Supers. Not a perfect solution but I think has some merit. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 7:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809/660 "2020-04-20T07:02:15Z")
> [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > Step one should be “redefining whats Supers are”. Making them harder to build only aides those with large amounts of them. In the short term, yes, it does. But until they can figure out _how_ to redefine them… stop the bleeding. Cuz I don’t think they really know exactly what they want the end result to be, yet. They’re just buying time, right now. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809.md?page=30) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/228809.md?page=32)