# EVE Online: Havoc - Expansion Notes **URL:** \ **Category:** Announcements\ **Tags:** official\ **Created:** [October 31, 2023, 11:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-havoc-expansion-notes/425711 "2023-10-31T11:18:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Vortigern\_Vitalis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vortigern_vitalis/32/455600_2.png) [@Vortigern\_Vitalis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vortigern_Vitalis)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2023, 5:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-havoc-expansion-notes/425711/41 "2023-11-11T17:20:32Z")
> [@Kage\_Mikihiso](#): > > I’ll just leave these 4 systems that are below 0.8 security here: Osmon, Apanake, Lanngisi, Hek. Have a nice day 🙂 Exactly, and one of which features in the SOE starter epic arc (as well as being a (very diminished) trade hub). But hey, what does it matter if a lot of new players get screwed? 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Suki\_Vokkonen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/suki_vokkonen/32/382402_2.png) [@Suki\_Vokkonen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Suki_Vokkonen)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2023, 5:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-havoc-expansion-notes/425711/42 "2023-11-11T17:21:41Z")
This is a major expansion, not a quick patch. You can plan these things. I don’t know about pirates/Trigs NPC stations in null sec/Pochven (my pirate alt isn’t ready to move there), if they also have Concord’s taxes, but I would say the same should apply. So in the end you wouldn’t do it specifically for the Fulcrum. ---
**Author:** ![Kage\_Mikihiso](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kage_mikihiso/32/393882_2.png) [@Kage\_Mikihiso](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kage_Mikihiso)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2023, 5:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-havoc-expansion-notes/425711/43 "2023-11-11T17:23:21Z")
It’s angel cartel ships, they are all projectile based. If you want hybrids you have to wait for serpentis. ---
**Author:** ![Sienna\_Massilia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sienna_massilia/32/390388_2.png) [@Sienna\_Massilia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sienna_Massilia)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2023, 5:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-havoc-expansion-notes/425711/44 "2023-11-11T17:28:03Z")
@Kage_Mikihiso It says “Gallente” so I got confused. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Tahiro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tahiro/32/380789_2.png) [@Tahiro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tahiro)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2023, 5:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-havoc-expansion-notes/425711/45 "2023-11-11T17:46:53Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > Thats nonsense. These Smartbomb Ikitursa was run on Sisi as Testship and yes it can perform well, but it has several death-rooms. I have flown it myself for many dozen runs, it simply dies from time to time, making a blingfit and bllingclone not an option. On TQ it isn’t really used. i could link vids of 2 guys who run it successfully on tq. i know both and the one who invented it did many runs in it. not sure whats wrong with you. so convinced of yourself and yet so wrong on many occassions. idk man, is that hilarious or pathetic? i cba to prove anthing to you and actually put some effort in to it, its apparently just a waste of time since you cant or dont want to understand anyways. its the same for about half of your other points, just nonsense and i am not in the mood to engage with the valid ones anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2023, 6:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-havoc-expansion-notes/425711/46 "2023-11-11T18:51:29Z")
> [@Tahiro](#): > > i could link vids of 2 guys who run it successfully on tq. I have also seen vids of guys using Stormbringers in T5 and T6 and yes, thes do for a while. At the end, they all died at some point (I have witnessed some of these deaths live on stream…) and given how expensive these ships are, their return in total profit over a long time is bad. You can check the AbyssTracker yourself, the Iki can run T5 Firestorms (I have done that in max-bling fits, it still had worse runtimes than a Sacrilege), but you often get 18 or 19minute runs. Which means even little mistakes or a single disconnect can kill you in there. With a Sacri I land below 15 minutes consistently, I cannot be despooled and losing a lot of damage from making a maneuver mistake and even on a disconnect I can simply relog and still finish the filament. You won’t find (many) T6 Dark runs there (and Darks are the ones the SB v2 Fit was build around…). Because it is simply not used except for some testing purpses. Videos on YT about that are mostly clickbait. However: you can summarize my opinion about it in a simple tldr; - HighTier Abyssals already pay too much for the risks involved (which are pretty low if using a proper fit). Buffing the Stormbringer so it can run T5/T6 will make that worse. And I don’t think thats good for the game. ---
**Author:** ![darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darkestkhan_eriker/32/390091_2.png) [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/darkestkhan_Eriker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 9:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-havoc-expansion-notes/425711/47 "2023-11-12T09:46:33Z")
> [@Vortigern\_Vitalis](#): > > So, if a High Security system reaches Stage 5 Corruption, there are no consequences for gankers - they can attack whomsoever they like without Concord responding. There is still concord, but the rules got relaxed - only podding and assisting podders is a criminal activity (just like in low sec) > [@Syzygium](#): > > It really doesn’t matter if its 600M or 700M you could then make with a Stormbringer in T6, it is _way too much_. The amount of profit you can make _already_ in non-stormbringers is _already too much_ for an HighSec activity. This sounds dirty. 3x my HS L4s income (~200M/h). > [@Suki\_Vokkonen](#): > > ? I guess it is easy to be cynical about Concord and say they are greedy, corrupted, hypocritical, etc Go shoot lancers. Wait a bit. Get doomsdayed in the face. CONCORD is a puppet of drifters. > [@Syzygium](#): > > And even then, it is _very_ hard to reach consistent profits of T5/T6 abyssal running. Besides that I have argued to nerf burner proftiablility for a long time, since - just like with Abyssals - I did this content myself and _know_ it simply pays too well for highsec. Indeed. Burners pay too much. Blitzing should be limited as well. I have no issue with missions like samsh the supplier - they pay boatloads in loot (tags), but you have to face actual consequence (standing loss with amarr) > [@Vortigern\_Vitalis](#): > > (as well as being a (very diminished) trade hub Hek is not that diminished as a trade hub. It is only slightly smaller than Dodixie. ---
**Author:** ![xViTuSx](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xvitusx/32/393977_2.png) [@xViTuSx](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/xViTuSx)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 12:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-havoc-expansion-notes/425711/48 "2023-11-12T12:03:12Z")
Everything is very very, very DIFFICULT!!! MAKE IT EASIER! IT’S IMPOSSIBLE TO PLAY ANYMORE!!! Who are the Vortons? Who are the Farsakhs? Who are Deathless shipmasters? Who are Deathless? Who are Fulcrum? Why is that? Lowsec Only - Sentry Guns will now additionally ignore all criminal timers in their presence. Players can now use Interdiction Sphere Launcher, Warp Disruption Field Generators, Bomb Launchers and Defender Launchers. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE? All your efforts are useless, because the players do not accept into their corporations those players who do not have the opportunity to talk on the microphone! ---
**Author:** ![Tiger\_space\_Thedark](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tiger_space_thedark/32/373728_2.png) [@Tiger\_space\_Thedark](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tiger_space_Thedark)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 2:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-havoc-expansion-notes/425711/49 "2023-11-12T14:07:28Z")
edencom were winning in niarja until test decide to do the stupid thing of “we will defend niarja from goons” and, well, goons response in kind by giving trigs the system also, you guys cry so hard about niarja that ccp have you ahbazon ---
**Author:** ![Tiger\_space\_Thedark](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tiger_space_thedark/32/373728_2.png) [@Tiger\_space\_Thedark](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tiger_space_Thedark)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 2:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-havoc-expansion-notes/425711/50 "2023-11-12T14:08:16Z")
the theme of the expansion is bringing chaos, whot did you expect ? ---
**Author:** ![Vortigern\_Vitalis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vortigern_vitalis/32/455600_2.png) [@Vortigern\_Vitalis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vortigern_Vitalis)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 3:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-havoc-expansion-notes/425711/51 "2023-11-12T15:47:50Z")
> [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](#): > > There is still concord, but the rules got relaxed - only podding and assisting podders is a criminal activity (just like in low sec) Which means gankers can attack whomsoever they like without consequence. Stop ducking the issue - that chokepoints on the main haulage routes could become unusable until they “eventually revert” - period unknown - which will screw the entire game’s economy. ---
**Author:** ![darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darkestkhan_eriker/32/390091_2.png) [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/darkestkhan_Eriker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 4:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-havoc-expansion-notes/425711/52 "2023-11-12T16:10:43Z")
> [@Vortigern\_Vitalis](#): > > whomsoever they like without consequence No, they can’t pod. Podding still has consequences. You see, you are saying there is no consequence. There is one - if they pod. ---
**Author:** ![Vortigern\_Vitalis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vortigern_vitalis/32/455600_2.png) [@Vortigern\_Vitalis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vortigern_Vitalis)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 4:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-havoc-expansion-notes/425711/53 "2023-11-12T16:23:12Z")
> [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](#): > > No, they can’t pod. Podding still has consequences. > > You see, you are saying there is no consequence. There is one - if they pod. For pity’s sake, the issue is not podding. The issue is ganking haulers. They can attack whomsoever they like, just not progress to the **secondary** act of podding. You are evading the question of impact on the economy if a key haulage route is rendered unusable for any significant period because the HS ganking dynamic has been upended. I assume you do not have a clue about that. ---
**Author:** ![Phaade](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/phaade/32/390475_2.png) [@Phaade](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Phaade)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 6:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-havoc-expansion-notes/425711/54 "2023-11-12T18:32:59Z")
Please, explain how the entire game economy is going to be ruined for a temporary area in which the DST would have to utilize MWD cloak instead of auto pilot. The end is nigh! REPENT! ---
**Author:** ![Vortigern\_Vitalis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vortigern_vitalis/32/455600_2.png) [@Vortigern\_Vitalis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vortigern_Vitalis)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 8:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-havoc-expansion-notes/425711/55 "2023-11-12T20:07:05Z")
Because all hauling is done with DSTs? I am not going to dignify that with an answer. And how long is “temporary”? No one knows. Anyone who autopilots near gankers at any time is an idiot. You still do not have a sensible comment to offer, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 8:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-havoc-expansion-notes/425711/56 "2023-11-12T20:23:29Z")
It’s player-driven content. Since everyone knows that there is no profession in EVE that generates more money than trading, maybe use all that ISK to pay someone to ‘suppress’ these systems to make them even safer? All those ISK billionaires should be easily able to fund a huge campaign against piracy in highsec? Do it! ---
**Author:** ![darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darkestkhan_eriker/32/390091_2.png) [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/darkestkhan_Eriker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 8:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-havoc-expansion-notes/425711/57 "2023-11-12T20:30:37Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > All those ISK billionaires should be easily able to fund a huge campaign against piracy in highsec? Do it! uhuh… poor bastards. Have only billions. How are they supposed to fight against pirates sponsored by trillionaires? Why? Because it benefits our wallets. Plenty of ways to survive in lowsec. ---
**Author:** ![darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darkestkhan_eriker/32/390091_2.png) [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/darkestkhan_Eriker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 8:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-havoc-expansion-notes/425711/58 "2023-11-12T20:33:26Z")
> [@Vortigern\_Vitalis](#): > > For pity’s sake, the issue is not podding. The issue is ganking haulers. They can attack whomsoever they like, just not progress to the **secondary** act of podding. > > You are evading the question of impact on the economy if a key haulage route is rendered unusable for any significant period because the HS ganking dynamic has been upended. > > I assume you do not have a clue about that. I have more of a clue than you, Mr Clueless. Plenty of hauling can be done with a DST. Which are used in low sec as well as in null and jspace with quite the success. And so are in hisec. I know. Plenty of my isk ends up in the hands of couriers - through DST sized courier contracts. ---
**Author:** ![Vortigern\_Vitalis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vortigern_vitalis/32/455600_2.png) [@Vortigern\_Vitalis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vortigern_Vitalis)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 8:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-havoc-expansion-notes/425711/59 "2023-11-12T20:38:29Z")
> [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](#): > > I have more of a clue than you, Mr Clueless. Plenty of hauling can be done with a DST. Which are used in low sec as well as in null and jspace with quite the success. And so are in hisec. I know. Plenty of my isk ends up in the hands of couriers - through DST sized courier contracts. Of course DSTs are used. My point is that they are not the only type. Try reading the posts to which I reply. You boast about being a Hek afficianado. Would be a dreadful shame if your favourite trading hub became corrupted given its low security status. But I am sure someone as brilliant and omniscient as you will welcome the challenge! How much do you shift in pods? Do not answer, we all know the cargo capacity of a capsule. Which is why your attempted diversion about podding was clueless. You still do not have a proper answer to the point I have raised, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Phaade](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/phaade/32/390475_2.png) [@Phaade](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Phaade)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2023, 2:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-havoc-expansion-notes/425711/60 "2023-11-13T02:52:36Z")
> [@Vortigern\_Vitalis](#): > > Because all hauling is done with DSTs? I am not going to dignify that with an answer. And how long is “temporary”? No one knows. Anyone who autopilots near gankers at any time is an idiot. > > You still do not have a sensible comment to offer, do you? I just did. Use a DST with a cloak and carry on. Or, continue \*\*\*\*\*ing about a non issue you personally find inconvenient, while speaking with condescension. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-havoc-expansion-notes/425711.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-online-havoc-expansion-notes/425711.md?page=4)