# Eve Online's Absurd Kill/Loss System **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [February 5, 2024, 11:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-onlines-absurd-kill-loss-system/438631 "2024-02-05T11:46:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2024, 7:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-onlines-absurd-kill-loss-system/438631/41 "2024-02-05T19:29:42Z")
1. The game _should_ record all PvP kills publicly in an ideal world 2. The game in reality does not record all PvP kills publicly, and is subject to hiccups; this is the reality we all get to live in 3. People can record their own gameplay and take screenshots 4. Given the above: when a killmail does not generate, it does _not_ mean: - “nothing in the way of personal record to show that they were ever involved”; nor - “there is no **history** of it” (your emphasis not mine); nor - “cannot have a ‘story’ without a historical record” - all of which here in this #4 are irrational, but are quotes by you in your first two posts I hope this clears up the confusion you are having, though you’ll have to figure out how number 3 and 4 fit together. I’m not going to explain it a fourth time, take it easy and hope you have a good evening. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2024, 7:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-onlines-absurd-kill-loss-system/438631/42 "2024-02-05T19:34:05Z")
> [@Io\_Koval](#): > > I hope this clears up the confusion you are having I’m not having the slightest bit of confusion other than in your endless gaslighting. Yes, the game _should_ record all PvP kills publicly. But if that is an ‘ideal world’ then _at the very least_, all participants to a kill should get a killmail. No confusion whatever. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2024, 7:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-onlines-absurd-kill-loss-system/438631/43 "2024-02-05T19:47:21Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > What’s _irrational_ about expecting a PvP game to record all PvP kills ? But it mostly does though. It does not give a public access to them. I don’t get why you claim that this is “rational”. It’s just your opinion. Your taste. Your beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2024, 8:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-onlines-absurd-kill-loss-system/438631/44 "2024-02-05T20:14:36Z")
Every blog or article ive ever read that has to do with wars etc. Never links to zkill. Because either the subject doesn’t care or the writers dont care to link them because outsiders won’t know what they are looking at. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2024, 9:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-onlines-absurd-kill-loss-system/438631/45 "2024-02-05T21:04:28Z")
The game would’ve been much better if it didn’t record kill mails at all. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2024, 9:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-onlines-absurd-kill-loss-system/438631/46 "2024-02-05T21:05:28Z")
What is this obsession with blogs ? How many Eve players have or even desire or can afford their own personal blogs ? And its not like most of the blogs I have seen are not heavily biased or slanted in some way…as one would expect. One should not have to rely on a blog to do what the game should be doing. This is pretty fundamental stuff for a PvP game. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2024, 9:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-onlines-absurd-kill-loss-system/438631/47 "2024-02-05T21:11:59Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > The game would’ve been much better if it didn’t record kill mails at all. What would be the _point_ of playing a PvP game where one spent years skilling up to kill stuff…only for the game to have zero record of one having ever done so. One might as well be Sisyphus forever rolling a stone up a hill for no reason whatever, and paying $15 a month for the sheer privilege. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2024, 9:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-onlines-absurd-kill-loss-system/438631/48 "2024-02-05T21:20:58Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > apparently it is OK for some to ‘brag’ their kills but not others. Is it a gank? Cool! Is it anything else? Calm down miner. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2024, 9:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-onlines-absurd-kill-loss-system/438631/49 "2024-02-05T21:21:40Z")
EVE is the only game with granular kill records. All other games don’t keep individual kill records, and at best have generalized stats like an overall K/D ratio. If you’re good, people will know who you are, and you don’t need a public record for this. Also, the kill board is a privilege, not a right. It’s a third-party charity service. If Squizz decides to, he can take it down tomorrow, and your precious record will be gone. It’s already happened before. We initially had two primary kill boards called battleclinic and griefwatch. When those died off, a _lot_ of records were lost. These are records that can’t be recovered because the owning parties are no longer playing the game, so they can’t feed the kill mails into the system anymore. A character I have has like a thousand or two entries that are gone _forever_ because they were from before 2007. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2024, 9:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-onlines-absurd-kill-loss-system/438631/50 "2024-02-05T21:33:34Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Also, the kill board is a privilege, not a right. It’s a third-party charity service. If Squizz decides to, he can take it down tomorrow, and your precious record will be gone. It’s already happened before. We initially had two primary kill boards called battleclinic and griefwatch. When those died off, a _lot_ of records were lost. These are records that can’t be recovered because the owning parties are no longer playing the game, so they can’t feed the kill mails into the system anymore. A character I have has like a thousand or two entries that are gone _forever_ because they were from before 2007. All the more reason why it should all be part of Eve itself. I mean, this isn’t some ‘icing on the cake’ type of thing. What could be more _fundamental_ to a PvP game than a record of one’s kills ? It’s crazier even than that…as the game happily records all one’s losses, even PvE ones. So one can have the loony situation of having 12 ship losses all recorded, even the ones during the NPE, but because not one of one’s 200 kills got the ‘final shot’ one can have _zero_ ‘kills’ recorded. That is just plain nuts and someone needs to say so. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2024, 9:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-onlines-absurd-kill-loss-system/438631/51 "2024-02-05T21:34:45Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > What could be more _fundamental_ to a PvP game than a record of one’s kills ? Enjoyable gameplay. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2024, 9:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-onlines-absurd-kill-loss-system/438631/52 "2024-02-05T21:39:38Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Enjoyable gameplay. What’s to enjoy if there’s no record of it ? Or am I supposed to ‘enjoy’ that the game happily records even PvE losses in the NPE…oh yes…no problems with that…yet one could take part in 500 fleets and not have a single record of it. Bah. No…that is not my definition of ‘enjoyment’. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2024, 9:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-onlines-absurd-kill-loss-system/438631/53 "2024-02-05T21:48:53Z")
Simply not a perspective to which I can relate. If there were no kill mails, I’d still play exactly the way I already do. I think most, if not _all_ of the proficient, recognized PvPers in the game would. Kill records are a nice extra, but not a baseline requirement for having fun and enjoying EVE for what it is. We fight for the _kills,_ not for the _mails._ Maybe it’s something you simply can’t understand at this point in time. [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/4/d/f/4df3be49f2c6683ca3b8f998abdb30c5cdaa3ca0.jpeg "Heat Juice") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGUyZwQqvlk) ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2024, 9:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-onlines-absurd-kill-loss-system/438631/54 "2024-02-05T21:58:43Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Simply not a perspective to which I can relate. > > If there were no kill mails, I’d still play exactly the way I already do. But you are primarily a solo player which means almost by definition you get the kill records. And so is Io Koval. So I see a pattern here…solo players don’t have a problem in the first place and thus simply don’t care that fleet players might miss out on kill records. Oh, and the fact that you are primarily a solo player is ironically something that I only know in the first place…_by looking at Killboard_. Plenty of irony in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2024, 10:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-onlines-absurd-kill-loss-system/438631/55 "2024-02-05T22:02:50Z")
Nobody cares about fleet players. Welcome to EvE. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2024, 10:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-onlines-absurd-kill-loss-system/438631/56 "2024-02-05T22:03:32Z")
I’m confused about how being a solo player ties with my perspectives that kill records are unnecessary and that the game would be fundamentally better without them. I never said that solo players should receive PvP records, while group players shouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2024, 10:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-onlines-absurd-kill-loss-system/438631/57 "2024-02-05T22:06:50Z")
I derive more enjoyment killing a Venture, instead of a 100b isk structure that (honestly) nobody cares about. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2024, 10:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-onlines-absurd-kill-loss-system/438631/58 "2024-02-05T22:09:14Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > What’s to enjoy if there’s no record of it ? The game ? ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2024, 10:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-onlines-absurd-kill-loss-system/438631/59 "2024-02-05T22:11:33Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > I’m confused about how being a solo player ties with my perspectives that kill records are unnecessary and that the game would be fundamentally better without them. I never said that solo players should receive PvP records, while group players shouldn’t. Because _you don’t need killboard at all_. You can go to Interactions and Combat Log and see all your Kills displayed in-game. I, on the other hand, have one character where I go there and it shows 10 ‘Losses’…even the ‘Air Civilian Astero’ from the NPE…lol…yet it shows ZERO in ‘Kills’ because despite being on 178 kills not a single one was a final shot. And this lop-sided nonsense is supposed to enthuse me to the game ? ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2024, 10:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-onlines-absurd-kill-loss-system/438631/60 "2024-02-05T22:12:28Z")
You guys don’t understand, Altara is still padding her killboard, until she gets 10 trillion it’s like there’s nothing there at all - so to get robbed of a hard earned zkill that someone else killed for you, that’s really frustrating cuz it means you have to wait until someone spoonfeeds you another structure (and it probably won’t be close to 100b) so then you add up all the hours you are spending to pad your zkill, and you start to wonder if it would be easier to just shoot your own alts. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-onlines-absurd-kill-loss-system/438631.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-onlines-absurd-kill-loss-system/438631.md?page=4)