# Eve’s death spiral & 4 more unsubs **URL:** \ **Category:** Out Of Pod Experience\ **Created:** [November 14, 2019, 12:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779 "2019-11-14T00:34:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 7:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/184 "2019-11-15T07:27:45Z")
> [@Theron\_Larkis](#): > > Citadels do not need more defenses, you just need to be smarter about it and if you’re going to build your own sandcastle for whatever reason you had better have the knowledge and manpower to defend it. This should have been the #2 post and then the thread locked. ---
**Author:** ![Anson\_Muellin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anson_muellin/32/169480_2.png) [@Anson\_Muellin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anson_Muellin)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 10:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/185 "2019-11-15T10:51:44Z")
> [@Theron\_Larkis](#): > > Which is what started this whole discussion: a handful of semi-inactive clowns building SEVEN citadels along a busy highway with zero actual understanding, who then go whine on the forums about how it all went up in flames Huh, bold statement. Not true, not even partially true… but bold. This was a 5 man Corp with a single engineering complex. ---
**Author:** ![Theron\_Larkis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theron_larkis/32/170573_2.png) [@Theron\_Larkis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Theron_Larkis)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 10:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/186 "2019-11-15T10:57:06Z")
They lost bunch before, 7 in total lost so far. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 11:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/187 "2019-11-15T11:46:25Z")
and they are not talking about what they lost 2 years ago. Please, learn to read. ---
**Author:** ![Theron\_Larkis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theron_larkis/32/170573_2.png) [@Theron\_Larkis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Theron_Larkis)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 11:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/188 "2019-11-15T11:52:50Z")
Not the point. They lost a bunch before, that means they had 7 incentives and moments to learn and improve… but didn’t. If you’re completely new to something and you mess up then eh, that’s ok to a degree. One has to learn by doing. But after seven times it stops being a learning moment. It would be understandable going berserk after losing a first one. Now, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_the_flame/32/490165_2.png) [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_the_Flame)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 12:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/189 "2019-11-15T12:20:18Z")
Maybe they need an officer to actually tell them what to do to can function properly. 😛 😈 :dealwithitparrot: ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 12:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/190 "2019-11-15T12:32:01Z")
> [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](#): > > Maybe they need an officer to actually tell them what to do Might actually be 5 officers 😄 ---
**Author:** ![Fred\_VonStraine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fred_vonstraine/32/256698_2.png) [@Fred\_VonStraine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fred_VonStraine)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 1:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/191 "2019-11-15T13:03:40Z")
I agree there should be some type of distruction button give the gankers some thing to think about . ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 1:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/192 "2019-11-15T13:27:23Z")
> [@Theron\_Larkis](#): > > They lost a bunch before, that means they had 7 incentives and moments to learn and improve… but didn’t. And that’s out of topic. Funny you need to talk about something else. ---
**Author:** ![Theron\_Larkis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theron_larkis/32/170573_2.png) [@Theron\_Larkis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Theron_Larkis)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 1:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/193 "2019-11-15T13:48:23Z")
Pray tell us what the topic is. ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 1:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/194 "2019-11-15T13:56:38Z")
> [@Fred\_VonStraine](#): > > give the gankers some thing to think about So having to deal with: - owning their own station - 100M Wardec (and another 100M for each additional week) - 2 to 3 timers over a week (in HS) - deal with vulnerability tanking - defense fleets - hired mercs - having your own fleet - defending your own station - “opportunity” defenders - and of course, station defense …isn’t enough? You want a button at the end that could take away a _possible_ reward for all that? Ridiculous… ---
**Author:** ![Fred\_VonStraine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fred_vonstraine/32/256698_2.png) [@Fred\_VonStraine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fred_VonStraine)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 2:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/195 "2019-11-15T14:00:07Z")
come to think of it your right thanks for pointing all that out to me… ---
**Author:** ![Fred\_VonStraine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fred_vonstraine/32/256698_2.png) [@Fred\_VonStraine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fred_VonStraine)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 2:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/196 "2019-11-15T14:18:38Z")
I know that this isn’t the right place for thism but if anyone reading this happens to live in the Mid-West (USA) please head on over to general discussions, I have a posting there and let me know what you think. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Luminetta](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/luminetta/32/169417_2.png) [@Luminetta](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Luminetta)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 11:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/197 "2019-11-15T23:22:43Z")
> [@Theron\_Larkis](#): > > They lost bunch before, 7 in total lost so far Somewhat true actually. The Corp got into building upwell structures (great money on moon mining facilities 2 years ago). We had some extras before a deployment and we stood them (I think 4 in total) up in some .5 zones and the non deployed member was triggering moon rocks once a week free… all with free refinery services… We pretty much left them alone otherwise. We figured if the local inhabitants didn’t want free stuff they could take it or leave it. When we got back home in 2018 they were all gone… we figure that meant the natives rejected the free stuff. Heck I think they were even named “free moon mining” None of the Corp complained when we got back in game… we had already pretty much given them to the system inhabitants. We were only home for about 90 days before we had to roll out again, and we all have family and friends… we weren’t going to spend time building digital space pixels with that little down time. But Theron isn’t completely wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Luminetta](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/luminetta/32/169417_2.png) [@Luminetta](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Luminetta)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 11:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/198 "2019-11-15T23:41:17Z")
Look, apparently altruism is a foreign concept to the common troll (and uncommon ones). We aren’t even slightly sad about losing our base… it’s a tiny loss since we build them ourselves. What we’re disgusted over is that the a55hats that enjoy pi55ing in peoples Wheaties have all the options and the people who just want to enjoy a bowl of cereal in peace have none… and all we’re really asking for is at least an option to pi55 in our own wheaties… I truly didn’t think that would drive so many people mad… Well sort of, I knew how things worked in forums, so it wasn’t like a total shock… So accounts are disabled and no one cares on either side, I just thought it worth my time to ask for the ability for players to wizz in their own cereal if that’s what they wanted… sorry to offend all the professional cereal killers so greatly. ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 12:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/199 "2019-11-16T00:45:03Z")
Sorry that EVE isn’t the little safe-space-entitled-friendly game you hoped it would be… ---
**Author:** ![Lily\_Inkura](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lily_inkura/32/174143_2.png) [@Lily\_Inkura](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lily_Inkura)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 1:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/200 "2019-11-16T01:28:00Z")
Unlike the safe-space-entitled-protected game you live in? I bought-off Pirat when they attacked me. This because they were credible and existential threat. But, attacker made mistake and revealed their supply lines. (I now know their multiple orca and hulk alts.) Yet, there is no mechanic for me to attack them via isk, only via point and shoot. And I don’t want to shoot them. I want to stab them financially in the kidneys. And potentially via a mechanism where they dont know for sure it’s me. And I’m not allowed to. Not only can I not deny them or you isk by blowing _ **myself** _ up, I have to buy and trade with you, including knowing the bling I am replacing might actually be mine because you have a _ **protected** _ trade market for your loot. _ **This** _ is the point. It is _ **supposed** _ to be a PvP game. So let it be one. If I want to kill myself, let me. If I want to pay more for an item, because I know the cheapest sale is from a pirate, let me do that too. This is not about safety, care bears, sooky la la’s. This is about _ **LORE** _. Having a PvP game, where all bets are off, in principle, and then restricting that in practice to _ **shooting** _ only, and typically with an offensive rather than a defensive bias, is illogical. ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 1:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/201 "2019-11-16T01:38:33Z")
> [@Lily\_Inkura](#): > > Unlike the safe-space-entitled-protected game you live in? ??? > And I’m not allowed to. Correct as they have protected they assets which the OP did not do. You cannot just randomly attack people you ‘think’ wronged you legally. You can however do it if you are willing to pay the price via mercs or ganking them yourself. Having complaining about alts is digging really deep into the game and if you are upset about that ‘feature’ then I don’t know why you are still here. > Not only can I not deny them or you isk by blowing _ **myself** _ up Again, you are demanding a nuclear option yet refuse the other options listed. Basically, you want your cake and to eat it as well. I listed the steps needed for an attacker to take; don’t you think they have earned the chance to crack your station? > It is _ **supposed** _ to be a PvP game. So let it be one. If I want to kill myself Really? This is the mindset of today’s gamers… If you want to deny evil-doers of a kill then don’t put up a station in the first place that you can’t defend. ---
**Author:** ![Anson\_Muellin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anson_muellin/32/169480_2.png) [@Anson\_Muellin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anson_Muellin)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 2:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/202 "2019-11-16T02:03:55Z")
> [@Lily\_Inkura](#): > > _ **This** _ is the point. It is _ **supposed** _ to be a PvP game. So let it be one. Let the topic die lily, they either agree and understand or will stand to the death against any and all evidence that their selfish world view is wrong and everything really is equal in all respects, but trying to change any of their minds is a waste. I thought we were making progress with the citadels are stationary caps, but I came to a realization. I don’t think CCP has any coders left… everything currently being done, or that has been done since the alliance tourney fail has been graphic design (skins, gates, etc.) or dbase changes (warp speed, ship stats, etc.) any attempt to fix code, alter code, or generate new code has been rejected by CCP for “various reasons”. So gank minds aren’t the only thing that is never going to change around here. ---
**Author:** ![Lily\_Inkura](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lily_inkura/32/174143_2.png) [@Lily\_Inkura](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lily_Inkura)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 2:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/203 "2019-11-16T02:04:20Z")
Noooo. Don’t be daft. > [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > If you want to deny evil-doers a kill then don’t put up a station in the first place that you can’t defend. Who says I can’t? This is a sandbox. And scorched earth is a perfectly legitimate defense. > [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > you are demanding a nuclear option yet refuse the other options listed. Not demanding so much as pointing out it is illogical to claim sandbox and then limit my choice. If you _ **do** _ limit my choices, in favor of a first person shooter, that is actually fine. But say so. [Rather, CCP should say so.] Just curtail this talk about sandbox and inconsistent lore like … chaos era and limited resources without then giving me options to limit access to _ **my** _ resources by destructing. It is inconsistent. > [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > You cannot just randomly attack people you ‘think’ wronged you legally. Of course I can. It’s called ganking. Which you mention. Just as the litany of costs you applied to structure bashing (war dec costs etc) do not apply to what you were replying to, which was actually a comment about, err… _ **ganking** _ ! (I’ll see your pendantry and raise you.) > [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > Having complaining about alts is digging really deep into the game and if you are upset about that ‘feature’ then I don’t know why you are still here. You, my man (or woman) are completely missing the point. Having identified their alts I now have strategic advantage. Militarily, I have identified my enemy. Likely their main. I know their supply lines (they pirate several hours but mine 12 hours apart from that.) I can track them. I am _ **perfectly** _ happy to watch & wait. This is _ **one** _ way the game is played. But I can’t actually attack them via the markets. What I am pointing out, at a broader level, is how you are protecting your position at the same time as suggesting I want to be protected. Protected? … How does that work? I want to be able to commit _ **suicide** _! I want to have the right to spend more money on market if the cheapest seller is on my “naughty list”! I want the gloves to be _off_! _ **Consistently** _. You can argue mechanics against it. And you will likely be always correct. The point tho’ is the principle. I want to be able to fight back. Just not the way _ **you** _ want me to = sandbox. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779.md?page=9) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779.md?page=11)