# Eve’s death spiral & 4 more unsubs **URL:** \ **Category:** Out Of Pod Experience\ **Created:** [November 14, 2019, 12:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779 "2019-11-14T00:34:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 2:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/63 "2019-11-14T14:44:54Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > and let Autopilot fly it to Jita from Rens, I bet you’ll never make it there. The fact you think you should be able to do that shows just how bad you are at this… ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 2:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/64 "2019-11-14T14:48:33Z")
The fact that you say that only proves you’re part of the problem for loss of player log-in’s. Also thanks for proving my statement as correct. ---
**Author:** ![zazzmatazz\_Xu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zazzmatazz_xu/32/451037_2.png) [@zazzmatazz\_Xu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zazzmatazz_Xu)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 2:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/65 "2019-11-14T14:52:41Z")
> [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > The fact you think you should be able to do that shows just how bad you are at this… What autopilot? There is ONLY one glaring reason autopilot lands you 12k from the gate, to give people something to shoot at, it’s amazing how people say if you don’t move you’re a lazy player but somehow going 30 jumps is somehow something we should fully enjoy and manually do, jumping gates is about as exciting as mining. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 2:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/66 "2019-11-14T14:53:16Z")
> [@Luminetta](#): > > Small Corp run by 5 US military peeps Do all us service members and Veterans a favor, if you are going to whine, don’t mention this. ---
**Author:** ![Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mevatla_vekraspek/32/377519_2.png) [@Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mevatla_Vekraspek)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 3:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/67 "2019-11-14T15:05:24Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > he is talking about is in Genesis, which is a backwater Damn, Pakhshi Tar and Manarq are located on a busy road between Dodixie and Jita… not backwater systems. Pirats are regularly seen in the area and you only need to look the number of daily jumps in Dotlan to realise it’s absolutely not a backwater system… ---
**Author:** ![Manweru\_Cemenotar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/manweru_cemenotar/32/230368_2.png) [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Manweru_Cemenotar)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 3:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/68 "2019-11-14T15:17:10Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > You are not very good at this as the structure he is talking about is in Genesis, which is a backwater, though I am not sure I would pick a Concord system myself. > > Dealing with a Leshak fleet with Nestors as logi is rather difficult, if you have not actually worked out what was there. > > I am thinking that this is a large indy structure too with a large amount of stuff in build hence PIRAT making the decision to come plunder it. I have no idea where you have grabbed info about it being in Genesis, since OP have made no mentions of location himself, and the log of lost structures in sinq and essence seems to be fitting provided description. and I am not bored enough to be tracking structures that are still alive, but if things he speaks of were still alive his effort would be better directed at hiring defense fleet more than unsubbing already. And within structures already lost by his corporation there is exactly one where any triglavian vessel was fielded - all the rest are a mix of Oracles and Vindicators. with odd destroyer here and there. I’d agree that fleet of leshaks with nestors for logi would be a tad difficult to deal with without proper defense fleet, but for all information provided within the thread itself, and with their killboard at hand there is no indication that such event was going on. Especially considering the fact that OP is complaining about “half-hearted attacks”, and battleship fleet with logistics hardly counts as one. as for PIRAT stuff - I’m not exactly up to date with politics of big HS entities, which may be partly why I wouldn’t know about siege of supposedly still alive “engineering hub” of OP’s corpo. As for “backwater” high sec areas - I know of a corporation that has a number of structures anchored in the HS that were for the better part of the year in Low Power mode because barely anyone was even logging in. And none of these structures were ever touched by anyone. And THIS is how backwater high sec is like. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 3:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/69 "2019-11-14T15:17:57Z")
I see your point it has well over 8 times the number of jumps that my backwater has so in that case it is not a backwater and they got their placement very wrong. I don’t pay much attention to Gallente space by the way, thanks for the education. > [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](#): > > I have no idea where you have grabbed info about it being in Genesis They lost T2 Standup fighters to PIRAT in that system and you can see the Leshaks on the killmail Decent reply, sorry for the grumpiness, go people and places, then Search character on Luminetta, open character info then click to corp, see war history, open that up and you will see the losses and location in the PIRAT war. ---
**Author:** ![Manweru\_Cemenotar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/manweru_cemenotar/32/230368_2.png) [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Manweru_Cemenotar)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 3:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/70 "2019-11-14T15:26:53Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > They lost T2 Standup fighters to PIRAT in that system and you can see the Leshaks on the killmail oh right, my bad, I failed to notice those. This kind of reminds me when my friends corp was placing themselves “on the side” and by sheer accident they ended up on highway between amarr and closest null entry system. But they weren’t bothered by anyone really since they moved out of that road. Still, Leshak fleet with Logies (!) is hardly something I’d call “half-hearted attack” especially when You take into consideration that it is high-sec after all. ---
**Author:** ![Rocket\_Hellfire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rocket_hellfire/32/396905_2.png) [@Rocket\_Hellfire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rocket_Hellfire)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 3:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/71 "2019-11-14T15:31:05Z")
Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 3:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/72 "2019-11-14T15:31:30Z")
Sadly this is above most people in hisec and you are right it is not half-hearted, I feel for him because you can’t really defend against PIRAT unless you can pull in a lot of friends. So he should think about this a bit more. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 3:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/73 "2019-11-14T15:36:39Z")
well the thinking is quite easy to do : don’t anchor what you can’t afford to replace. Citadels are ■■■■ defense. Even a tutorial NPC is more of a threat. Your citadel WILL fall. You can’t do anything against people who want to make it fall, for the simple reason that they can always out number you. It’s just no point in defending them unless you have 100+ people ready to fight for the timer. Trying to defend it otherwise is just wasting your time and giving the aggressor more people to shoot at. So accept the loss, and understand that each citadel WILL be destroyed. But you can replace it if you want. A raitaru is 1B. aggressor will get 10M isk from it if you remove all module (but one and fuel for it : reprocessing facility is 20M). Make them waste their time. If you try to defend you are at loss. Put each structure in a different one-alpha-corp, so that every time they want to kill you structure, they have to pay 60M for war + the time to kill it. If you can’t afford to spend 1B per month in a new structure that is gonna be blown up, then use NPC stations. ---
**Author:** ![Quor\_Dresden](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quor_dresden/32/277545_2.png) [@Quor\_Dresden](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Quor_Dresden)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 4:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/74 "2019-11-14T16:22:26Z")
> [@Luminetta](#): > > So 4 more players stopped their auto-renewal for their accounts, not because they cared about what CCP had to offer, or because of regular updates, or because of lack of new content, but completely because what a few people can do in a few months can be completely undone by fewer people in a few minutes, and there is nothing to be done about it. I’m sure it may have been said already but you just described the very essence of Eve. It is not a forgiving universe. Players can scam other players, grieve them at will in most cases. All facts that you and your fellow players that are leaving all were probably aware of before you began working out how to setup and defend your structure. Really no different then saving up isk buying a new ship, firing it and getting shot down your first time taking her out. Happens all the time. Grats on making a whine thread and thanks for leaving as there is no place for you here. ---
**Author:** ![Stalter\_Arjar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stalter_arjar/32/411988_2.png) [@Stalter\_Arjar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Stalter_Arjar)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 4:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/75 "2019-11-14T16:39:23Z")
Oh FFS, if u can’t defend it don’t put it up in the first place. BTW Aufay/Balle and the other systems u lost ur structures are not hisec backwaters, jeez. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 4:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/76 "2019-11-14T16:46:35Z")
> [@zazzmatazz\_Xu](#): > > It shouldn’t and your correct, however the “grey area” is this; power, there is a serious gap in power, those that have the numbers, those that have the isk, those that have time and play eve as their life. > Then you have the other side, the casual PVE’ers, those whom have the opposite because they can’t commit to making eve their entire life but enjoy the environment. So if i play fortnight all the time and you only play casually, will i not be better than you? If i have more friends than you, will we not be stronger together than you? The ‘problem’ here is that people are trying to treat eve like another MMO. But forget what you think you know about other MMO’s with the hand holding, the non-pvp options and farming et al. Eve is NOT other MMO’s. It is a pvp sandbox, like a persistent battle royale. Once these people learn to accept that they’ll be happier and so will we. > [@zazzmatazz\_Xu](#): > > Again to expect people to give thought to “the grey area” with the impulsive nature of humans is too expect too much, there are plenty of PVP targets to be had and many who seek the PVP interactions but one avoids the other because again, power, so like any predator they go after easier prey and really failing to accept any serious challenges by going after another predator cause in nature this often results in the death of one or both, and yet the most epic fights in eve will involve two predators going at it, it is the legendary stories that live on in eve, but it is the mediocre predators that hunt in a barrel living a fantasy in their minds that keep trashing around the environment and causing people to get fed up with pests. Epic fights in a general sense is one thing, but that’s not to say small or solo players don’t have their epic moments. We all have stories, and far more of them involve ‘weak’ hunters and prey than you’re willing to admit. They may not be important in a wider sense but they are very important to the individuals involved. Any healthy eco system had weak predators that hunt weak prey. In fact it’s pretty essential in something like eve to make such a food chain, or it can be pretty difficult for a pvp corp to ‘progress’. Regardless, the OP and his corp put upba structure and by doing so declared themselves ready for wardecs. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 4:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/77 "2019-11-14T16:49:07Z")
> [@Luminetta](#): > > So 4 more players stopped their auto-renewal for their accounts Good riddance. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 4:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/78 "2019-11-14T16:52:33Z")
> [@Stalter\_Arjar](#): > > Oh FFS, if u can’t defend it don’t put it up in the first place. That’s a completely stupid statement. There will always be someone able to shoot your structure. ---
**Author:** ![Derath\_Ellecon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/derath_ellecon/32/289725_2.png) [@Derath\_Ellecon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Derath_Ellecon)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 5:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/79 "2019-11-14T17:02:33Z")
Yet some can defend them. Doesn’t change the fact that if you lack the ability to defend it either don’t put it up or accept the fact that if you do, it might get destroyed. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 5:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/80 "2019-11-14T17:05:45Z")
Does not change that if people should not put the structure without the ability to defend it, then nobody would. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 5:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/81 "2019-11-14T17:06:25Z")
“Ability to defend it” =/= “ability to defend it against all conceivable attacks”. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 5:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/82 "2019-11-14T17:07:17Z")
then it’s a meaningless term, and thus a stupid affirmation. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779.md?page=5)