# Eve’s death spiral & 4 more unsubs **URL:** \ **Category:** Out Of Pod Experience\ **Created:** [November 14, 2019, 12:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779 "2019-11-14T00:34:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 5:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/83 "2019-11-14T17:23:41Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > There will always be someone able to shoot your structure. That’s literally the point, kid. Someone will always shoot your structure. So you better be prepared to defend it. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 5:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/84 "2019-11-14T17:26:08Z")
You just got the option that you are not war eligible as long as you have no structure. And now we are back to crying for more because this wasn’t enough? ---
**Author:** ![Buoytender\_Bob](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/buoytender_bob/32/374377_2.png) [@Buoytender\_Bob](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Buoytender_Bob)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 5:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/85 "2019-11-14T17:35:28Z")
Focusing exclusively on the a structure’s lack of ability to self destruct, it seems only reasonable that if one can self destruct their ship, one should be able to self destruct their structure. Both activitivities have the same goal in mind: removal of recoverable assets for the aggressor ( making his actions less rewarding in isk profit), as well as removing a km “bragging right”. The latter seems to be important to many people considering some of the km generated during the 100% drop event. Low power and unmanned structures should retain the current reward system; perhaps even increasing the drop percentages to promote clearing of deadwood spam. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 5:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/86 "2019-11-14T17:37:48Z")
Actually selfdestructing everything is even more damaging than having them loot everything there was inside. I imagine selfdestructing only citadel would be rather acceptable, as with ships. Because you cant potentially get it back in any way later. As reparations or stealing. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 5:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/87 "2019-11-14T17:40:59Z")
I find it disappointing yet expected of the forums that one kid’s off topic comment about self-destructing has resulted in this thread breaking off into two different conversations. One about defending a structure, and another some kid’s fantasy about self destructing a structure which is unrelated to the original post. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 5:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/88 "2019-11-14T17:42:59Z")
Also by selfdestructing he would only save time of everyone if the citadel is to be undefended. ---
**Author:** ![Buoytender\_Bob](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/buoytender_bob/32/374377_2.png) [@Buoytender\_Bob](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Buoytender_Bob)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 5:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/89 "2019-11-14T17:44:50Z")
The OP did say that “the final straw” that resulted in his fellow corp mates deciding to quit was the lack of an ability to self destruct, making it germane to the discussion as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 5:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/90 "2019-11-14T17:45:36Z")
Plenty of “I’ve resubbed” posts on reddit in recent history. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 5:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/91 "2019-11-14T17:48:13Z")
Like, honestly … this thread isn’t about keeping players. It’s also not about creating content. It’s about the impotence of the OP. It’s about how he is incapable of defending his stuff and about how angry his own impotence makes him. That’s the sole reason why he wants this. Not because of new players, not because of old players, not because of weak players. It’s solely so he doesn’t need to feel impotent anymore. He’s really hating the players here. Congratulations, OP. > [@Luminetta](#): > > anyone can play anyway they want, as long as the way they want is to disrupt what someone else wants… No. Anyone can play anyway they want within the rules of the game. It’s a freedom you don’t get to enjoy in real life, because real life is made for the mediocre. The rest of us get to enjoy games like EVE ONLINE where we can show we’re better than people like you. You can play how you want. Just like everyone else. If you don’t enjoy that freedom _for everyone_, then that’s too bad for you, because we do. ---
**Author:** ![Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mayhaw_morgan/32/412682_2.png) [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mayhaw_Morgan)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 6:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/92 "2019-11-14T18:35:28Z")
Godspeed, capsuleers. o7 ---
**Author:** ![Dragos\_Highwind](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dragos_highwind/32/170517_2.png) [@Dragos\_Highwind](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dragos_Highwind)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 6:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/93 "2019-11-14T18:51:57Z")
“There is always a bigger fish.” Eve is the epitome of this, and it’s not a bad thing. A small group can always do their thing very well and enjoy themselves, but always remember there is a bigger group that can come knock over your sand castle. Upwells are a trap. People want to own “their station” however they are highly undefendable and their fuel costs typically make their function not cost effective. However once a person or group has committed to one, they don’t want to lose it because of time investment and sentimental reasons. In all reality the people like the OP would be much better off joining their corp to an alliance. Use the alliance’s station, so they don’t have the burden upon themselves and hopefully have the numbers to defend their home. Plenty of good alliances looking for more bodies. ---
**Author:** ![Scary\_Uncle\_John](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scary_uncle_john/32/165088_2.png) [@Scary\_Uncle\_John](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scary_Uncle_John)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 7:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/95 "2019-11-14T19:41:22Z")
The accumulation of wealth is a form of PVP in EVE. The moment you begin to extract resources from the game environment to turn into game currency, you are competing with other players doing the same, no matter how small or insignificant it can seem to the whole. If you simply want to fly around hi sec in a pod or rookie ship, you will likely never have any problems. Literally anything over and above that puts you in some form of competition with other players (even with unlimited resources) as the value of the resource itself is player driven. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 7:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/96 "2019-11-14T19:51:02Z")
I like flying around null in a rookie ship. Free. Lots of player interactions. ---
**Author:** ![Xuxe\_Xu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuxe_xu/32/464660_2.png) [@Xuxe\_Xu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuxe_Xu)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 8:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/97 "2019-11-14T20:43:18Z")
> [@Anson\_Muellin](#): > > I mean to be clear, I’m pretty sure it’s ok to be in the US military and still not want to hurt someone who didn’t ask for it?? Right?? 😣🤢 Hurt? _ **Hurt?** _ _ **It’s a flippin video game, nobody gets hurt!** _ You need to get some perspective, friend. OP is - ever so sorry - an expression of weakness and defeatist attitude any member of any military should have been embarrassed to have much less post. If OP is an example of how OP deals with adversity in a fake game world with no actual consequences, what about adversity irl? ---
**Author:** ![Kaivarian\_Coste](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kaivarian_coste/32/413759_2.png) [@Kaivarian\_Coste](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kaivarian_Coste)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 9:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/98 "2019-11-14T21:14:49Z")
How often are small corp citadels attacked in high sec? ---
**Author:** ![Jacques\_Dubois](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jacques_dubois/32/169549_2.png) [@Jacques\_Dubois](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jacques_Dubois)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 9:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/99 "2019-11-14T21:32:26Z")
> [@Luminetta](#): > > So we know not to build it if we can’t defend it, but we DID believe that it would be able to defend itself to some degree… There it is. You had an expectation. That expectation was not met. The natural human response is to get angry. Sometimes, anger is justified - but only if the expectation was justified. Your expectation was not justified. But instead of adjusting the expectation, you’ve gotten angry and stormed off. Which… Yeah, you’re entitled to do that, sure. But it’s a little childish. It’s one thing if you’ve realized that EVE just isn’t the game for you. That’s fair. It’s not a game for everyone. But that’s not something to be spitting the dummy over. You’re an adult with military training. That’s a tough life for tough people. You should have thicker skin than this. I’d suggest just reset, bring your expectations back into alignment with reality, then have another go. If it’s not the game for you any more, then all’s good, that’s useful information on which to base your leisure time decisions. But you might find out that you go back to enjoying the game once you’ve got your expectations set right. Or, with your expectaions updated, you might find another pathway forward to achieve your goals. You can join another corp, or even grow your own corp to take on more combat pilots, that kind of thing. I was salty as hell when I got ganked mining in hisec five times in one week. Considered quitting - but I just put in the research and realized I’d been assessing risk all wrong. Once I updated the expectations around risk, I could make better risk/reward decisions for how I want to play. Now it’s great - and knowing that the risk/reward _matters_ makes the success feel more meaningful too, even for a filthy hisec carebear miner like me. Take a breath and count to ten. There might still be something here for you. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 11:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/100 "2019-11-14T23:07:01Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Does not change that if people should not put the structure without the ability to defend it, then nobody would. This clearly isn’t true. There are obviously some people who have managed to keep their structures up for over a year. > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > You just got the option that you are not war eligible as long as you have no structure. And now we are back to crying for more because this wasn’t enough? Nothing will ever be enough. This is the discussion that was had when the changes were announced. One very naive bear thinking ‘no one will complain now that wardecs are opt-in’… T’was a facepalm moment. ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 11:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/101 "2019-11-14T23:12:51Z")
Stick you Hello Kitty kid…EVE is WAY WAY to scary for you… Also thanks for proving my statement as correct. ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 11:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/102 "2019-11-14T23:17:51Z")
> [@zazzmatazz\_Xu](#): > > somehow something we should fully enjoy Nobody is forcing you to just 30 gates. That was YOUR choice. And to further make you life so hard, you have 3 option: - autopilot - “d” - Jump to 0 That is the slowest to fastest way to travel and surprise surprise, most dangerous to least dangerous way to travel. So not only are you whining that you can’t AFK autopilot, you are also whinging that it’s slow… What’s next: petitioning EVE to do away with gates and just insta-warp everywhere? FFS… ---
**Author:** ![Lily\_Inkura](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lily_inkura/32/174143_2.png) [@Lily\_Inkura](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lily_Inkura)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 11:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779/103 "2019-11-14T23:44:45Z")
> [@Daoden](#): > > If i could self destruct a structure that would be bad … to self destruct in minutes … would make it so you could screw with corp/alliance mates or anyone who has stuff in said structure. That sounds “very EvE” to be able to do that. However, it is still a legitimate point and one with an easy fix. Simply gate the “BIG RED BUTTON” to the normal sequence of destruction. Basically, either a structure being reinforced or specifically going down to the structure timer would allow the red button to be triggered. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-s-death-spiral-4-more-unsubs/200779.md?page=6)