# Eve ship stats are too overbalanced - I REFUSE to skill for the Triglavian ships **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [May 1, 2019, 9:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-ship-stats-are-too-overbalanced-i-refuse-to-skill-for-the-triglavian-ships/156201 "2019-05-01T09:34:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Knowledgeminer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/knowledgeminer/32/422883_2.png) [@Knowledgeminer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Knowledgeminer)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 3:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-ship-stats-are-too-overbalanced-i-refuse-to-skill-for-the-triglavian-ships/156201/62 "2019-05-02T03:17:49Z")
> [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](#): > > The point is, the game was far far better when ships were more specialized and unbalanced. Except that point is wrong. One of the things CCP has done right is precisely achieving a greater diversity of roles and hence specialisation of ships than there was before. Not only is the game much better in that regard now, but one of the improvements has been precisely that now every ship has a purpose, unlike before when many ships were simply a less powerful variant of some other better ship and there was absolutely no point in flying them. > [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](#): > > It was not always like this, this cookie cutter play. No, indeed, it was much worse before, when only a few ships were worth flying and you didn’t have to think about making choices. _That_ was “cookie cutter play”. [Rebalancing EVE, one ship at a time](https://www.eveonline.com/article/ship-balancing-vision-1) ---
**Author:** ![Natocha\_Daisy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/natocha_daisy/32/474632_2.png) [@Natocha\_Daisy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Natocha_Daisy)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 6:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-ship-stats-are-too-overbalanced-i-refuse-to-skill-for-the-triglavian-ships/156201/63 "2019-05-02T06:36:07Z")
> [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](#): > > The point is, the game was far far better when ships were more specialized and unbalanced. Now we might at well all be flying the same hull, because the model and weapons types are the only difference. Maybe Caldari still have some advantage of ECM and Gallente ships carry more drones. But that’s it now. It was not always like this, this cookie cutter play. Unfortunately your enlightened insight highlights the reality of many MMOs at the moment. I won’t name any. Fortunately there is a forum where we can discuss ideas, voice our concerns and talk about our Eve fantasies as a constructive outlet. ---
**Author:** ![Natocha\_Daisy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/natocha_daisy/32/474632_2.png) [@Natocha\_Daisy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Natocha_Daisy)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 6:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-ship-stats-are-too-overbalanced-i-refuse-to-skill-for-the-triglavian-ships/156201/64 "2019-05-02T06:39:04Z")
> [@Marcus\_Gideon](#): > > Quite the troll thread you’ve got here, 5 / 7 Yes. And your fantastic opinion is most welcome 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Natocha\_Daisy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/natocha_daisy/32/474632_2.png) [@Natocha\_Daisy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Natocha_Daisy)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 6:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-ship-stats-are-too-overbalanced-i-refuse-to-skill-for-the-triglavian-ships/156201/65 "2019-05-02T06:48:12Z")
> [@Knowledgeminer](#): > > One of the things CCP has done right is precisely achieving a greater diversity of roles and hence specialisation of ships than there was before I disagree. This game lacks real strength because of the lack of heavy diversity and a focus on centralised economy and profit cap. One example is that it takes many many months to finish skilling for an Orca. And yet the return for using this vessel at all will leave you quite penniless. Notwithstanding that it took over 700 million isk to buy and fit and that it can only regain that income by using mining drones. The timescale for skilling mining drones to max level is phenomenal and yet the income they drive is the equivalent of venture mining as a rookie when you factor in the time and resources you have invested up till now. Too much balance is therefore in my opinion bad for a game. Eve Online has a reward system which is severely out of sync with the skill training time and expectations of player investment. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 11:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-ship-stats-are-too-overbalanced-i-refuse-to-skill-for-the-triglavian-ships/156201/66 "2019-05-02T11:51:27Z")
> [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](#): > > You had a drake too, bro. I had several. > (talks to stuffed animal) It was the perfect ship for me belt ratting in Stain until it got nerfed too much. I have about five sitting in my corp hanger, three are setup as tanky entosis ships and two are HAM fitted. The Drake Navy Issue is what the old drake is, but I never even bothered to get one. > [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](#): > > The point is, the game was far far better when ships were more specialized and unbalanced. Now we might at well all be flying the same hull, because the model and weapons types are the only difference. Maybe Caldari still have some advantage of ECM and Gallente ships carry more drones. But that’s it now. It was not always like this, this cookie cutter play. When you look at the Leshak the low optimal and no fall off and spool up for damage makes these ships useful for certain things like structure bashes or taking on targets with large buffers and lots of remote reppers. I really like my Leshak’s, but I tried to run a level 4 with one and it was not fun at all. > [@Marcus\_Gideon](#): > > Yet another example of not having a clue what you’re talking about. Nobody flies a Marauder for improved DPS. They fly it b/c it tanks exponentially more damage than an ordinary BS. Absolutely this, I do level 4’s in a Paladin for that very reason and the range in bastion is wonderful and not forgetting that e-war does not impact me, WTG as a mission boat. OH and the Paladin can be fitted with T2 stuff only and still be very effective. > [@Knowledgeminer](#): > > Except that point is wrong. One of the things CCP has done right is precisely achieving a greater diversity of roles and hence specialisation of ships than there was before. > > Not only is the game much better in that regard now, but one of the improvements has been precisely that now every ship has a purpose, unlike before when many ships were simply a less powerful variant of some other better ship and there was absolutely no point in flying them. I agree with this: > [@Knowledgeminer](#): > > No, indeed, it was much worse before, when only a few ships were worth flying and you didn’t have to think about making choices. _That_ was “cookie cutter play”. And this. > [@Natocha\_Daisy](#): > > One example is that it takes many many months to finish skilling for an Orca. And yet the return for using this vessel at all will leave you quite penniless. Notwithstanding that it took over 700 million isk to buy and fit and that it can only regain that income by using mining drones. The timescale for skilling mining drones to max level is phenomenal and yet the income they drive is the equivalent of venture mining as a rookie when you factor in the time and resources you have invested up till now. But I agree with this because I am training up a max skilled Orca pilot to work with a max skilled exhumer pilot and I find it really quite naff for the investment. I keep saying that the Orca needs a higher yield, but most of the plonkers are crying for it to be nerfed. In real world use it really does not mine well at all. While discussing this issue I did find out that because moon rocks are so big it is super efficient as a leave it next to the larget rock and go afk. But if they nerf it because of that they screw it for people like me who use it next to an exhumer in a belt with piddly small rocks, which is like balancing nullsec on the basis of the Goons. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Kalus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lord_kalus/32/512583_2.png) [@Lord\_Kalus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lord_Kalus)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 12:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-ship-stats-are-too-overbalanced-i-refuse-to-skill-for-the-triglavian-ships/156201/67 "2019-05-02T12:22:31Z")
> [@Natocha\_Daisy](#): > > I REFUSE to skill for the Triglavian ships So you start by complaining stuff is too balanced then refuse to pursue what helps to break that over abundance of balance. Have fun nerfing yourself I guess. Weird flex bro. > [@Natocha\_Daisy](#): > > One example is that it takes many many months to finish skilling for an Orca. And yet the return for using this vessel at all will leave you quite penniless. Notwithstanding that it took over 700 million isk to buy and fit and that it can only regain that income by using mining drones. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > In real world use it really does not mine well at all. Orcas are not mining ships. They are mining fleet support ships. Buying them with the intent to use them to pay themselves off, rather than to boost a mining fleet to make it more efficient, is using it against it’s intended purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Kalus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lord_kalus/32/512583_2.png) [@Lord\_Kalus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lord_Kalus)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 12:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-ship-stats-are-too-overbalanced-i-refuse-to-skill-for-the-triglavian-ships/156201/68 "2019-05-02T12:37:00Z")
> [@Dragos\_Highwind](#): > > Very unimpressed at the sounds of the Damavik T2 (Nergal) and Vedmak T2 (Ikitursa). The Kiki T2 (Draugur) however could be completely disgusting, but will be insanely expensive. All three sound pretty amazing to me. Glad I’m already almost done training all of my triglavian skills up. I’m curious if that ship with two disintegrator turrets at 1min 25sec in this video is the Ikitursa. If it is the DPS on that iki could be quite icky indeed. [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/9/b/3/9b3324c959eb43b0da0b33187a8ba07bb4449c8f.jpeg "The Scope - Triglavians Take Over Billboards") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2Mj8g4k2Gs) ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 1:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-ship-stats-are-too-overbalanced-i-refuse-to-skill-for-the-triglavian-ships/156201/69 "2019-05-02T13:07:48Z")
> [@Lord\_Kalus](#): > > Orcas are not mining ships. They are mining fleet support ships. Buying them with the intent to use them to pay themselves off, rather than to boost a mining fleet to make it more efficient, is using it against it’s intended purpose. I don’t recall ever saying that they are a mining ship and not a mining support ship, I did however say that their yield was too low. Of course if you are multi-boxing more than two characters then it does not matter to you, but I stay with two characters in the main and it is not great. You could say and you would be right that I am asking for it to be buffed due to my own play, but I get a bit nervous that it will be nerfed because people use them to AFK moon mine in hisec. @Natocha_Daisy, to be honest you should skill into them they are quite fun, I use the Leshak combined with a Nestor to kill FOB’s and I don’t hold the hauler spawn in place so it can be a bit interesting… The Leshak rocks for this. ---
**Author:** ![Dragos\_Highwind](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dragos_highwind/32/170517_2.png) [@Dragos\_Highwind](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dragos_Highwind)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 1:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-ship-stats-are-too-overbalanced-i-refuse-to-skill-for-the-triglavian-ships/156201/70 "2019-05-02T13:32:05Z")
Wow interesting catch. That’s a Vedmak hull with two disintegration, but it doesn’t match the Ikitursa concept art. There is clearly two orb hatches on the top of the ship in the video, so the design is very distinct. Maybe an upsized battleship big bother to look forward to? To clearify I’m disappointed on the Damavik T2 (Nergal) and Vedmak T2 (Ikitursa) “It has bonuses to raise the maximum charge amount for Entropic Disintegrators.” bit. That either means it can hold more ammo, which isn’t something anyone was asking for, or it can ramp up higher which again wasn’t something that the ship needed. The increased resist profile and assault controls will of course lead me to flying them but that was expected. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Kalus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lord_kalus/32/512583_2.png) [@Lord\_Kalus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lord_Kalus)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 2:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-ship-stats-are-too-overbalanced-i-refuse-to-skill-for-the-triglavian-ships/156201/71 "2019-05-02T14:05:31Z")
> [@Dragos\_Highwind](#): > > can ramp up higher which again wasn’t something that the ship needed. My bet is on this being true. Which, while possibly not needed, should make for much higher dps as it is percentage/exponential scaling. ---
**Author:** ![Dragos\_Highwind](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dragos_highwind/32/170517_2.png) [@Dragos\_Highwind](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dragos_Highwind)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 2:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-ship-stats-are-too-overbalanced-i-refuse-to-skill-for-the-triglavian-ships/156201/72 "2019-05-02T14:37:29Z")
If it can spool for longer it’ll be largely useless as Damaviks and Vedmaks rarely see their cap. If it spools higher faster, its nice but a bonus to range, tracking, drone HP, smartbomb range (to actually be useful), etc would have been a lot nicer. Time will tell, hoping for the best. ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Gideon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/marcus_gideon/32/141713_2.png) [@Marcus\_Gideon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Marcus_Gideon)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 3:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-ship-stats-are-too-overbalanced-i-refuse-to-skill-for-the-triglavian-ships/156201/73 "2019-05-02T15:02:36Z")
> **[Hoboleaks: Singularity\_Previous (Build: 1497262) -\> Singularity\_Next...](https://www.hoboleaks.space/Singularity_1497262-1498791#highlight1556795475515,32,34,36,38)** > > Generated @ 2019-05-02 11:11:15 EVE Time In case you guys were unaware that Hoboleaks has the Sisi stats for the new Trig T2s (among other things)… here’s the bit about the VedHAC bonuses > [@](#): > > **Heavy Assault Cruisers bonuses (per skill level):** > > - 20% bonus to **Heavy Entropic Disintegrator** maximum damage multiplier bonus > - 10% bonus to **Energy Neutralizer** , **Smart Bomb** , and **Remote Armor Repairer** power grid requirement > > **Precursor Cruiser bonuses (per skill level):** > > - 5% bonus to **Heavy Entropic Disintegrator** damage > - 5% bonus to **Heavy Entropic Disintegrator** tracking speed > > **Role Bonus:** > > - Can fit **Assault Damage Controls** > - 50% reduction in **Microwarpdrive** signature radius penalty > - 50% reduced **Energy Neutralizer** capacitor need > - 50% reduced **Remote Armor Repairer** capacitor need > - 50% reduced **Smart Bomb** capacitor need > - 100% bonus to **Remote Armor Repairer** range ---
**Author:** ![Dragos\_Highwind](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dragos_highwind/32/170517_2.png) [@Dragos\_Highwind](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dragos_Highwind)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 3:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-ship-stats-are-too-overbalanced-i-refuse-to-skill-for-the-triglavian-ships/156201/74 "2019-05-02T15:34:48Z")
You’re a gentleman and a scholar. Incredibly underwhelmed, but at least good to know what it’ll look like. Whomever though that bonus to ramp cap is what a frigate and cruiser needed needs to be slapped. In 95% of fights this HAC is going to have the exact same damage output as a regualr vedmak. The power grid requirement change is interesting, but I’m guessing the already tight fitting means that won’t mean much. ---
**Author:** ![Natocha\_Daisy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/natocha_daisy/32/474632_2.png) [@Natocha\_Daisy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Natocha_Daisy)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 4:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-ship-stats-are-too-overbalanced-i-refuse-to-skill-for-the-triglavian-ships/156201/75 "2019-05-02T16:19:54Z")
Do you play in high sec? ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 4:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-ship-stats-are-too-overbalanced-i-refuse-to-skill-for-the-triglavian-ships/156201/76 "2019-05-02T16:59:54Z")
> [@Natocha\_Daisy](#): > > I disagree. This game lacks real strength because of the lack of heavy diversity and a focus on centralised economy and profit cap. > > One example is that it takes many many months to finish skilling for an Orca. And yet the return for using this vessel at all will leave you quite penniless. Notwithstanding that it took over 700 million isk to buy and fit and that it can only regain that income by using mining drones. The timescale for skilling mining drones to max level is phenomenal and yet the income they drive is the equivalent of venture mining as a rookie when you factor in the time and resources you have invested up till now. > > Too much balance is therefore in my opinion bad for a game. > > Eve Online has a reward system which is severely out of sync with the skill training time and expectations of player investment. You’re comparing an Orca with a Venture by looking at income only. Venture is purely a mining vessel, while the Orca is a mining vessel, a mining fleet booster that also can carry huge amounts of ore for the mining fleet, as well as more mining vessels. The Orca simply isn’t _meant_ to be purely for mining and as such it’s surprising that it’s a better miner than some ships intended purely for mining. You see only the mining yield of these two ships with completely different roles and call it ‘too much balanced’. It seems to me that instead of looking at the whole picture, you look at balance as a one-dimensional thing. Luckily EVE ships are _not_ balanced in a one dimensional way. Ships of different roles have completely different strengths and weaknesses that all have their place. And even ships of the same role all are different in almost every single aspect, which makes optimising your choices a nice puzzle because there is never a ship that is the ‘best’ at everything, but there’s a lot of choices you can make for every situation. _That_ is good balance in my opinion, it allows players to make their own choice instead of putting everyone into the same old [insert current flavour of the month overpowered ship] because it’s simply the best ship. It seems you want to be able to jump in the ‘best’ ship of the game, yet you’re disappointed to see that there isn’t a ‘best ship’ and you’re required to make a new choice for every activity. Sorry to disappoint, but if the Triglavian ships were considerably stronger than the rest of the ships in EVE, I and many others would consider their implementation a failure. Right now I’m like you: I refuse to skill for the triglavian ships. I have a different motivation though, I still have too many other things to skill for before I start glancing at these pretty nice looking new ships. ---
**Author:** ![Nep-Neps](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nep-neps/32/466874_2.png) [@Nep-Neps](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nep-Neps)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 6:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-ship-stats-are-too-overbalanced-i-refuse-to-skill-for-the-triglavian-ships/156201/77 "2019-05-02T18:07:10Z")
OP sounds like he’s looking at AT ships They’re ships that have ridiculous stats You want the DPS to break people rather than win by tanking better? An AT ship is what you’re looking for. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 6:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-ship-stats-are-too-overbalanced-i-refuse-to-skill-for-the-triglavian-ships/156201/78 "2019-05-02T18:39:15Z")
At the moment yes. ---
**Author:** ![Zachri](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zachri/32/69948_2.png) [@Zachri](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zachri)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 7:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-ship-stats-are-too-overbalanced-i-refuse-to-skill-for-the-triglavian-ships/156201/79 "2019-05-02T19:06:24Z")
> [@Jint\_Hikaru](#): > > Like what? He basically means stuff like “omg bring back (age of) nano\* cuz I wanna feel über without risk or brains”. - historic eve reference ---
**Author:** ![Anoron\_Secheh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anoron_secheh/32/502239_2.png) [@Anoron\_Secheh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anoron_Secheh)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2019, 9:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-ship-stats-are-too-overbalanced-i-refuse-to-skill-for-the-triglavian-ships/156201/80 "2019-05-04T09:01:04Z")
You’re dumb and I’m glad you’re a nobody. -a nobody that knows I know nothing Edit: looked at your killboard… yeah you’re a bad and can’t talk about balance, moreso than I can’t talk about balance. ---
**Author:** ![Natocha\_Daisy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/natocha_daisy/32/474632_2.png) [@Natocha\_Daisy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Natocha_Daisy)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2019, 1:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-ship-stats-are-too-overbalanced-i-refuse-to-skill-for-the-triglavian-ships/156201/81 "2019-05-04T13:37:05Z")
> [@Natocha\_Daisy](#): > > Eve Online has a reward system which is severely out of sync with the skill training time and expectations of player investment. And to go even further, the pattern is even worse for carrier pilots. Why should I spend 5 bill buying and fitting a carrier only to end up pointing and clicking rats worth maximum 1 mil isk? You know what? I did buy and fit a 4.5 bill nidhoggur, and I spent two hours doing just that. After which I docked it and haven’t used it in over a year. It’s somewhere in safety now and requires a huge fee for release. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-ship-stats-are-too-overbalanced-i-refuse-to-skill-for-the-triglavian-ships/156201.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-ship-stats-are-too-overbalanced-i-refuse-to-skill-for-the-triglavian-ships/156201.md?page=5)