# EVE Vegas was pitiful and makes me feel this game has no future **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [October 27, 2019, 2:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-vegas-was-pitiful-and-makes-me-feel-this-game-has-no-future/197882 "2019-10-27T02:50:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Caedor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/caedor/32/151508_2.png) [@Caedor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Caedor)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2019, 3:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-vegas-was-pitiful-and-makes-me-feel-this-game-has-no-future/197882/148 "2019-11-04T03:52:25Z")
The problem is not only CCP, it is the veteran players. Old people do not want change, so they can’t fix the game and remove the dumb features that make the game broken because old man tears and subs. The same problem applies with the real world. We need the old generation to die off so we can rebuild society for the better, and the same needs to happen with this game. ---
**Author:** ![Compo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/compo/32/167680_2.png) [@Compo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Compo)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2019, 3:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-vegas-was-pitiful-and-makes-me-feel-this-game-has-no-future/197882/149 "2019-11-04T03:57:59Z")
Very untrue, and flat world thinking ![life](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/c/b/cbda547a35f988408c97873b946eabbc429e60e5.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2019, 4:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-vegas-was-pitiful-and-makes-me-feel-this-game-has-no-future/197882/150 "2019-11-04T04:03:46Z")
> [@Caedor](#): > > We need the old generation to die off so we can rebuild society for the better, and the same needs to happen with this game. If you’re part of the “new” generation, lmao, good luck. > [@Caedor](#): > > Old people do not want change, so they can’t fix the game and remove the dumb features that make the game broken because old man tears and subs. You’re completely missing the main issue here, but that’s expected from someone like you. Veterans have figured out the best way to play the game. How dare they optimize their play in a video game that’s been out for 16 years! Don’t hate the players, hate the game. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2019, 6:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-vegas-was-pitiful-and-makes-me-feel-this-game-has-no-future/197882/151 "2019-11-04T06:44:18Z")
Wow, someone says I’m right! 😃 Nullsec is formerly colonizable space. That era is long behind us. What is missing is CCP setting it into stone, changing nullsec mechanics away from “colonizable space” towards “new empire space”. That’s the natural progression of things. Everything’s pretty much owned by the big guys unless they don’t care about some fleck of space. There is no endless circle of conquering, living, ending in EVE. Even in real life it can take ages until an empire actually crumbles, which we’re not going to see in EVE like this, because EVE isn’t real life enough for that to happen. Even if one of the bigger blocks folds, the hole wouldn’t be there for very long. Especially the goons are here to stay anyway, so instead of fighting what’s normal, CCP should adapt the game towards the current situation. All that’s then missing is _new_ colonizable space, just as we were pretty much promised by CCP Seagull. “What keeps the nullsec power blocks from conquering that too?” They’d be thinning their numbers, making them more vulnerable. Even though we can switch chars and thus switch location easily, one person can not actively fight on two or more fronts at once. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2019, 6:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-vegas-was-pitiful-and-makes-me-feel-this-game-has-no-future/197882/152 "2019-11-04T06:44:50Z")
Hi Yiole! \*_waves\*_ 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Yiole\_Gionglao](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yiole_gionglao/32/516090_2.png) [@Yiole\_Gionglao](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yiole_Gionglao)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2019, 6:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-vegas-was-pitiful-and-makes-me-feel-this-game-has-no-future/197882/153 "2019-11-04T06:50:30Z")
It is worth remembering at this point that CCP defeated the Moneybadger Coalition by headshooting the money people behind it right as the Goons were cornered and clinging on the verge of defeat. Also in a double whammy, CCP destroyed the “professional” EVE blogosphere by removing the gambling that financed it. The Casino War changed many things but the one it could/ should: the dominance of the endgame by a single entrenched entity. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2019, 7:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-vegas-was-pitiful-and-makes-me-feel-this-game-has-no-future/197882/154 "2019-11-04T07:20:23Z")
> [@Caedor](#): > > Old people do not want change, so they can’t fix the game and remove the dumb features that make the game broken because old man tears and subs. Yeah, young people always say that when old people point out how stupid, unreflected and one dimensional the little ideas they push are. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2019, 7:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-vegas-was-pitiful-and-makes-me-feel-this-game-has-no-future/197882/155 "2019-11-04T07:22:04Z")
> [@Yiole\_Gionglao](#): > > The Casino War changed many things but the one it could/ should: the dominance of the endgame by a single entrenched entity. You’re not thinking this further into the future. There was ONE guy wealthy enough to pay the bills for a War against the Goons. ONE! You REALLY think he couldn’t have easily established his own one empire with everyone who’s currently not a goon being a part of it? You really, REALLY think he wouldn’t have? I don’t think so! In the end we’d have the same situation, potentially worse, still with basically one guy being the big dog who is able to tell a lot of loyal morons what to do. ---
**Author:** ![Yiole\_Gionglao](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yiole_gionglao/32/516090_2.png) [@Yiole\_Gionglao](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yiole_Gionglao)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2019, 7:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-vegas-was-pitiful-and-makes-me-feel-this-game-has-no-future/197882/156 "2019-11-04T07:59:00Z")
Unlike with the Goons, CCP could/would headshot that one guy via RMT any time they wanted. Unfortunately for the game, CCP played the RMT card in favor of the Goons and against shaking up the statu quo. (Of course I am cinically implying that CCP doesn’t looks for RMT in places they don’t want to find it… as we say in Spanish, “_allá van leyes, do quieren reyes_” (laws do as the kings want)) ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2019, 8:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-vegas-was-pitiful-and-makes-me-feel-this-game-has-no-future/197882/157 "2019-11-04T08:14:55Z")
So much talk about null sec! It is old news. CCP fixed this years ago when they introduced wormholes. Let goonswarm grind titans all they want. ---
**Author:** ![Theron\_Larkis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theron_larkis/32/170573_2.png) [@Theron\_Larkis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Theron_Larkis)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2019, 8:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-vegas-was-pitiful-and-makes-me-feel-this-game-has-no-future/197882/158 "2019-11-04T08:34:18Z")
If you want to break up the donut all you have to do is decrease the sphere of influence a group can have. MASSIVELY lower mobility of capitals, MASSIVELY lower usefulness of Ansiblex gates etc all. If you lower a group’s sphere of influence you lower the control they can exert, you lower the cohesion allowing for other/different/smaller entities to thrive which is turn means they can CHOOSE to do just that. And then slowly but surely empires will lose their grasp. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2019, 9:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-vegas-was-pitiful-and-makes-me-feel-this-game-has-no-future/197882/159 "2019-11-04T09:13:27Z")
> [@Theron\_Larkis](#): > > If you want to break up the donut all you have to do is decrease the sphere of influence a group can have. Every single member of the goons can easily have one or more properly skilled characters in every single nullsec region. Actually ever member of any alliance with proper farming ground can have that. They can have influence where ever they want. The only thing they can’t do is fighting at two fronts at the same time, but no one can do that … unless TiDi makes it easy, of course. You’re making the mistake of thinking that “this one change is all that’s needed” _(even if you understand that it’s not one change, in the end it’s a one-liner from your side with no actual good concept behind it)_, which is nonsense. Not accepting the status quo is equally nonsense. Look at history and how colonization works, then ask yourself if it’s actually smart trying to work _against_ this kind of natural progress. Hint: It isn’t. The Era of nullsec colonization is over. What’s needed is people stopping being stuck in the past and accepting that things need to progress and change. After that happens, next step that’s needed is a way of cementing the empires into the mechanics. Looking at history might prove to be wise. ---
**Author:** ![Theron\_Larkis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theron_larkis/32/170573_2.png) [@Theron\_Larkis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Theron_Larkis)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2019, 9:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-vegas-was-pitiful-and-makes-me-feel-this-game-has-no-future/197882/160 "2019-11-04T09:55:32Z")
> [@Solecist\_Project](#): > > Every single member of the goons can easily have one or more properly skilled characters in every single nullsec region. Which takes effort, and making use of it takes time and requires them to be logged in. The only reason massive blob alliances are allowed to exist is because being part of them as a foot soldier takes very little effort apart from logging in when there’s a ping, and then it takes very little effort for them to get straight into the fight. Increasing the effort something takes lowers the number of people doing it, especially if said people are pretty much selected on being low effort. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2019, 10:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-vegas-was-pitiful-and-makes-me-feel-this-game-has-no-future/197882/161 "2019-11-04T10:02:10Z")
> [@Theron\_Larkis](#): > > Which takes effort, and making use of it takes time and requires them to be logged in. Take a piece of paper and write down that “effort” one by one and include a time table to it as well. At the end you’ll notice that it’s meaningless. Step by step. Do it. Enjoy and remember that this only has to be done once per region and that ISK isn’t even a concern. > [@Theron\_Larkis](#): > > The only reason massive blob alliances are allowed to exist ~~What does this even mean? No one can prevent people from grouping up. No one “allows” them to exist. There’s no way of preventing it. Plus, there’s always more than one reason for any- and everything. If you mistake the label “alliance” for something else than just a label, then you need to stop doing so. It doesn’t need a label for people to be united and grouping up.~~ ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2019, 10:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-vegas-was-pitiful-and-makes-me-feel-this-game-has-no-future/197882/162 "2019-11-04T10:07:06Z")
I see your point on this now. You’re saying that all these people aren’t willing to put effort into it, just like they’re only around for “pings” and don’t actually want to play the game, but you’re mistaken. The “effort” of getting a char up and running is meaningless. And you can be sure people will be getting a detailed explanation of what to do. It costs less than an hour. Five minutes to create a char, five to ten minutes to move to the next hub, a few minutes buying up all the injectors required. The longest part is moving the char over. Maybe I shouldn’t post high on coffee? 😊 ---
**Author:** ![Theron\_Larkis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theron_larkis/32/170573_2.png) [@Theron\_Larkis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Theron_Larkis)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2019, 10:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-vegas-was-pitiful-and-makes-me-feel-this-game-has-no-future/197882/163 "2019-11-04T10:10:42Z")
But it does. The only reason to join an already massive alliance, or remaining part of one, is because it takes very little effort to get anything done, it’s laziness. The only reason alliances can bloat without bursting is because the game mechanics allow for it, that and leadership being competent. If you lower the sphere of influence a group can have by lowering their mobility as a group they will, in time, be less capable and interested in doing so. Them having characters elsewhere doesn’t inhibit that, it might lessen the effect at first but over time it’ll do the job. Lowering force projection lowers influence, lowering influence lowers the need and use of massive group. Not massively at first, but it will over time. Is it a 100% solution? No but it’s a big part of it. Them having characters in other alliances does ofcourse lower impact but in time that too will dwindle and be less effective. ---
**Author:** ![Yor\_Stoo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yor_stoo/32/390951_2.png) [@Yor\_Stoo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yor_Stoo)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2019, 11:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-vegas-was-pitiful-and-makes-me-feel-this-game-has-no-future/197882/164 "2019-11-04T11:57:28Z")
I have to disagree with OP. The keynote covered mostly past and present. OP should take a closer look at the presentations from ccp Rise, ccp Ghost and ccp Larrikin to get a real glimpse into the future of Eve-O. The awareness and the commitment of the devs and designers were clearly there. Too bad there was no big announcement about the things OP cares about, but expectations have the bad habit of biting the owner. One thing ccp has learned is to not make long term plans public, to avoid promises they can’t keep because of new emergencies and shifting priorities. That they continue to put themselves on the line every day, despite harsh criticism by vocal minorities, deserves at least some admiration. After all, I think they do a good job given the team’s size, and the nasty problems we players constantly create for them. 🤘 ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2019, 12:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-vegas-was-pitiful-and-makes-me-feel-this-game-has-no-future/197882/165 "2019-11-04T12:02:47Z")
> [@Yor\_Stoo](#): > > One thing ccp has learned is to not make long term plans public This is a double edged sword though…and for a well established game like EVE, it’s probably more harmful than good. The key is to say where the game is headed but leave out the more volatile details/promises. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2019, 12:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-vegas-was-pitiful-and-makes-me-feel-this-game-has-no-future/197882/166 "2019-11-04T12:54:03Z")
Hilmar has been extremely forthcoming about where Eve is going. It has horrified the playerbase to such an extent that we seem unable to accept it. CCP has known for a long time that Eve would eventually fade away and that they would need a new product to replace it, or risk going out of business. They tried everything and failed. Now they are stuck with an aging game with no clear path forward. CCP has decided to do a series of experiments to see what results in better metrics. They are couching this as “chaos.” As far as I can tell, the experiments are extremely well focused to test use hypotheses: null blackout, 100% loot drops, etc. They don’t care what the userbase says about these - they care about how the events affect “the numbers.” Even if CCP wanted to tell us the future of Eve, how could they? They need to spend a couple of years experimenting on us before they can figure out what makes us tick. The only thing they are sure about is that they are tired of seeing all their potential customers give up on the game after \<5 minutes and leave. They have been VERY clear about that. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2019, 1:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-vegas-was-pitiful-and-makes-me-feel-this-game-has-no-future/197882/167 "2019-11-04T13:07:30Z")
I essentially agree with what you say, but I see it from a slightly different angle. > [@Xeux](#): > > Hilmar has been extremely forthcoming about where Eve is going. TBH I only feel that Hilmar & Co. have been clear that “We don’t really know how to go about designing games that interest players, so we are reduced to experimenting and gathering data in order to hopefully trip over something that works”. > [@Xeux](#): > > They tried everything and failed. Now they are stuck with an aging game with no clear path forward. See “we don’t know how to design games”. > [@Xeux](#): > > As far as I can tell, the experiments are extremely well focused I’m actually all for experimenting, however there _are_ well known and historical examples of game design that indicate sensible directions to develop in. CCP has always seemed like they are operating in a vacuum, like somehow EVE is so entirely different from everything that ever existed that they simply cannot learn lessons from anywhere else. It’s like they’re trying to develop every concept from scratch. 3D characters, new player tutorials, WASD controls, heck even _chat systems_ - CCP keeps treating these topics that other games have been doing for 20 years like “new technologies” they have to “develop”. Seriously, CCP: just open your eyes and become aware that maybe even though Hilmar, Burger and the other devs don’t know how to achieve these things… plenty of other people do. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-vegas-was-pitiful-and-makes-me-feel-this-game-has-no-future/197882.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-vegas-was-pitiful-and-makes-me-feel-this-game-has-no-future/197882.md?page=9)