# Eve! What have you done? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [July 13, 2020, 6:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-what-have-you-done/254711 "2020-07-13T18:17:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Yannah\_Vandenstellars](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yannah_vandenstellars/32/218491_2.png) [@Yannah\_Vandenstellars](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yannah_Vandenstellars)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 11:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-what-have-you-done/254711/42 "2020-07-15T11:45:27Z")
> [@Crime\_time](#): > > I see so much community melting away in the wormhole area that it’s sad. Unfortunately I find that Pearl Abyss (not CCP) is going the wrong PAY TO WIN way here and that is clearly visible. What, you don’t like their “business model”, too ? 🤭 Join the club. But we’re not allowed to have an opinion about it, it’s called “whining” here, as unsavory as it sounds. For this community, if you’re have a complaint it means you don’t know how to play the game and hence have no business playing it, let alone have an opinion about it. The reason CCP doesn’t display the TRUTH about EVE is obvious, that truth being: Don’t play this game if you’re not ready to open your pocketbook and pay each month to be able to use the real ships and modules and not the worthless paper-thin demo ones. From a business angle, of course they won’t say that but that’s exactly what it is and the community doesn’t hide it here, they will tell you it with no holds barred and insult your intelligence in the process by bringing cacamimi examples in the convo all while making you feel that it was bad idea to even state an opinion. Pay2Win ? Of course it is but _hussssshhhh_ we’re not supposed to say that. According to the “business model” it’s taboo to even think it. ---
**Author:** ![Vals\_Loeder](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vals_loeder/32/192416_2.png) [@Vals\_Loeder](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vals_Loeder)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 12:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-what-have-you-done/254711/43 "2020-07-15T12:24:37Z")
> [@Wormhole\_Bookmark\_Specialist](#): > > winning in fights need actual skill at the game I just press F1 when told and the enemy goes boom … what game skills do I need for that? ---
**Author:** ![Vals\_Loeder](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vals_loeder/32/192416_2.png) [@Vals\_Loeder](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vals_Loeder)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 12:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-what-have-you-done/254711/44 "2020-07-15T12:25:24Z")
> [@Crime\_time](#): > > I also know that this doesn’t help much, but it’s better than sitting in a chair and not saying anything Why is it better than to just STFU? ---
**Author:** ![Manweru\_Cemenotar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/manweru_cemenotar/32/230368_2.png) [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Manweru_Cemenotar)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 1:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-what-have-you-done/254711/45 "2020-07-15T13:00:32Z")
> [@Vals\_Loeder](#): > > I just press F1 when told and the enemy goes boom … what game skills do I need for that? if you have bothered to read through the thread, You would know that this has been already adressed, here: > [@Eve! What have you done?](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-what-have-you-done/254711/41): > > for F1 blob to win a fight following must occur: someone with knowledge of the game, needs to design a fleet doctrine, some other folks need to amass resources to actually get that fleet fitted to the doctrine, then FC needs to take his fleet of F1 monkeys and guide their F1s to the proper target, and even then you still need at least minimally decent broadcasting discipline and decent logies to go anywhere with mythical “F1 blob”. All while enemy devises his own doctrine, deploys his own fle… You’re welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Crime\_time](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/crime_time/32/410076_2.png) [@Crime\_time](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Crime_time)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 1:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-what-have-you-done/254711/46 "2020-07-15T13:47:56Z")
I think that says it all! But to read well after 39 Post 1 good, is not surprising in this age. Thanks Yannah. > [@Yannah\_Vandenstellars](#): > > What, you don’t like their “business model”, too ? 🤭 Join the club. > But we’re not allowed to have an opinion about it, it’s called “whining” here, as unsavory as it sounds. > For this community, if you’re have a complaint it means you don’t know how to play the game and hence have no business playing it, let alone have an opinion about it. > > The reason CCP doesn’t display the TRUTH about EVE is obvious, that truth being: Don’t play this game if you’re not ready to open your pocketbook and pay each month to be able to use the real ships and modules and not the worthless paper-thin demo ones. > From a business angle, of course they won’t say that but that’s exactly what it is and the community doesn’t hide it here, they will tell you it with no holds barred and insult your intelligence in the process by bringing cacamimi examples in the convo all while making you feel that it was bad idea to even state an opinion. > > Pay2Win ? Of course it is but _hussssshhhh_ we’re not supposed to say that. According to the “business model” it’s taboo to even think it. ---
**Author:** ![Razor\_Laxton](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/razor_laxton/32/245363_2.png) [@Razor\_Laxton](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Razor_Laxton)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 1:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-what-have-you-done/254711/47 "2020-07-15T13:52:49Z")
The only one that satisfies your ego and your version of the sandbox which is eve. (I translated) ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/7/1/71b762477fb6dd246ec5226d8396f0d45ebf0bab.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Yannah\_Vandenstellars](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yannah_vandenstellars/32/218491_2.png) [@Yannah\_Vandenstellars](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yannah_Vandenstellars)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 2:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-what-have-you-done/254711/48 "2020-07-15T14:25:23Z")
> [@Crime\_time](#): > > I think that says it all! But to read well after 39 Post 1 good, is not surprising in this age. > Thanks Yannah. OH you’re very welcome. Unlike most of the Yes-men on this forum and as an new player on Alpha, I’m not blinded by what the game USED to be, by wishes that EVE will return to be player-centered instead of a mere financial asset on some portfolio. ---
**Author:** ![Vals\_Loeder](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vals_loeder/32/192416_2.png) [@Vals\_Loeder](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vals_Loeder)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 2:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-what-have-you-done/254711/49 "2020-07-15T14:27:20Z")
> [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](#): > > if you have bothered to read through the thread, You would know that this has been already adressed, here: You do realise all the “work” is done by the FC, right? As an F1 monkey I only need to anchor up, lock target, press F1 … I really do not see this makes me a “skilled player”. If I can not even do these simple tasks I have no business at all in the game. My conclusion stands: an F1 monkey, like me, should not be considered a skilled player. You’re welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Manweru\_Cemenotar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/manweru_cemenotar/32/230368_2.png) [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Manweru_Cemenotar)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 2:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-what-have-you-done/254711/50 "2020-07-15T14:33:00Z")
> [@Vals\_Loeder](#): > > You do realise all the “work” is done by the FC, right? As an F1 monkey I only need to anchor up, lock target, press F1 … I really do not see this makes me a “skilled player”. If I can not even do these simple tasks I have no business at all in the game. My conclusion stands: an F1 monkey, like me, should not be considered a skilled player. > > You’re welcome. FC and whoever made the doctrine deployable in the first place, yes. Yes it does not make “F1 monkey” a “very” skilled player, but I’d argue that it’s not an “F1 monkey” that wins the fight in the first place. They contribute, true, but their contribution would mean jackshit if their doctrine was bad and/or FC was ■■■■. And then there is awfull lot of players who are not even having “skill” of “F1 Monkey”, and fleet made of those will not win against anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Vals\_Loeder](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vals_loeder/32/192416_2.png) [@Vals\_Loeder](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vals_Loeder)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 2:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-what-have-you-done/254711/51 "2020-07-15T14:33:55Z")
> [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](#): > > FC and whoever made the doctrine deployable in the first place, yes. > > Yes it does not make “F1 monkey” a “very” skilled player, but I’d argue that it’s not an “F1 monkey” that wins the fight in the first place. They contribute, true, but their contribution would mean jackshit if their doctrine was bad and/or FC was ■■■■. > > And then there is awfull lot of players who are not even having “skill” of “F1 Monkey”, and fleet made of those will not win against anyone. Good, so you agree with me. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Manweru\_Cemenotar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/manweru_cemenotar/32/230368_2.png) [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Manweru_Cemenotar)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 2:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-what-have-you-done/254711/52 "2020-07-15T14:35:46Z")
> [@Vals\_Loeder](#): > > Good, so you agree with me. Thank you. Except I don’t use example of someone winning my battles for me as a counter to claim that winning in eve takes some skill? ^-^ ---
**Author:** ![Vals\_Loeder](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vals_loeder/32/192416_2.png) [@Vals\_Loeder](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vals_Loeder)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 2:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-what-have-you-done/254711/53 "2020-07-15T14:38:23Z")
> [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](#): > > Except I don’t use example of someone winning my battles for me as a counter to claim that winning in eve takes some skill? ^-^ Neither did I. My claim is and was … being an F1 monkey doesn’t require skill. Your convoluted replies aren’t about this one single statement I made. You really need to pay better attention to what peop[le write. ---
**Author:** ![Manweru\_Cemenotar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/manweru_cemenotar/32/230368_2.png) [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Manweru_Cemenotar)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 2:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-what-have-you-done/254711/54 "2020-07-15T14:40:58Z")
> [@Vals\_Loeder](#): > > Neither did I. > [@Vals\_Loeder](#): > > I just press F1 when told and the enemy goes boom … what game skills do I need for that? In short because apparently my language was too complex for you. I am telling You that You don’t win the fight if you do what you wrote in here - someone else (FC) does that for You. and it takes THEIR skill to win that battle. ---
**Author:** ![Rocket\_Hellfire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rocket_hellfire/32/396905_2.png) [@Rocket\_Hellfire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rocket_Hellfire)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 2:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-what-have-you-done/254711/55 "2020-07-15T14:41:26Z")
> [@Lis\_Torin](#): > > But saying it’s p2w is even more dumb. Can you advance your character abilities/skills instantly with RL $$$, circumventing the basic, standard form of time-gated improvement? **YES** 👉🏼 It **IS** Pay-To-Win **NO** 👉🏼 It Is **NOT** Pay-To-Win Go ahead… take your time. ---
**Author:** ![Vals\_Loeder](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vals_loeder/32/192416_2.png) [@Vals\_Loeder](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vals_Loeder)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 2:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-what-have-you-done/254711/56 "2020-07-15T14:45:24Z")
> [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](#): > > I am telling You that You don’t win the fight if you do what you wrote in here - someone else (FC) does that for You. and it takes THEIR skill to win that battle. Are you daft? I didn’t claim otherwise FFS! ---
**Author:** ![Lis\_Torin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lis_torin/32/204820_2.png) [@Lis\_Torin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lis_Torin)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 3:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-what-have-you-done/254711/57 "2020-07-15T15:40:07Z")
> [@Rocket\_Hellfire](#): > > Can you advance your character abilities/skills instantly with RL $$$ Yes. But more SP and more isk don’t give me any advance over more experience between chair and monitor. I don’t like to judge people by zkill but I kinda know why you don’t understand this. Since it looks like you have zero combat PvP experience ---
**Author:** ![Foggy\_Bernstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/foggy_bernstein/32/407887_2.png) [@Foggy\_Bernstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Foggy_Bernstein)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 4:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-what-have-you-done/254711/58 "2020-07-15T16:19:09Z")
> [@Lis\_Torin](#): > > I don’t like to judge people by zkill but I kinda know why you don’t understand this. Since it looks like you have zero combat PvP experience I don’t like to judge people who judge people by their forum alt’s killboard statistics, but I’m judging you anyway since it looks like you have no idea how this game works. ---
**Author:** ![Lis\_Torin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lis_torin/32/204820_2.png) [@Lis\_Torin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lis_Torin)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 4:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-what-have-you-done/254711/59 "2020-07-15T16:44:27Z")
Cool, when you will judge someone else next time. Don’t forget to add some arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Vals\_Loeder](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vals_loeder/32/192416_2.png) [@Vals\_Loeder](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vals_Loeder)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 4:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-what-have-you-done/254711/60 "2020-07-15T16:49:08Z")
> [@Lis\_Torin](#): > > Cool, when you will judge someone else next time. Don’t forget to add some arguments. You mean arguments like these: > [@Lis\_Torin](#): > > I don’t like to judge people by zkill but I kinda know why you don’t understand this. Since it looks like you have zero combat PvP experience ---
**Author:** ![Or10n\_Sharkfin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/or10n_sharkfin/32/497113_2.png) [@Or10n\_Sharkfin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Or10n_Sharkfin)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 5:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-what-have-you-done/254711/61 "2020-07-15T17:15:30Z")
> [@Vals\_Loeder](#): > > You’re welcome. All the skill training in the world will not protect me from getting gate-camped when traveling alone in null-sec. I can fly in the best ship possible that 1.5m SP can get me but almost always there is going to be someone with actual experience in the game with knowledge of mod particulars and nav tactics able to tackle me down and destroy the ship I bought with a PLEX. You are not paying money to this game to win if you buy these boosts. You’re paying to skip time so you can get into your fitting faster. Beyond that only experience will take you further. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-what-have-you-done/254711.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-what-have-you-done/254711.md?page=4)