# EVE will always be a nichè Game **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 8, 2021, 8:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186 "2021-03-08T08:43:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2021, 9:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/41 "2021-03-08T21:04:48Z")
It does, because for people without alts, 1 character = 1 person… 75% of the characters online represent 1 person. 10% of the accounts represent 0.5 of a person, so 1500 people are playing 3000 characters. Show where I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2021, 9:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/42 "2021-03-08T21:05:31Z")
> [@Xuixien](#): > > 75% of the characters online represent 1 person. > [@Xuixien](#): > > and 75% of players only have 1 account, Which one is it? These two are not the same. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2021, 9:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/43 "2021-03-08T21:06:03Z")
Address my question or concede. > [@Xuixien](#): > > It does, because for people without alts, 1 character = 1 person… > > 75% of the characters online represent 1 person. 10% of the accounts represent 0.5 of a person, so 1500 people are playing 3000 characters. > > Show where I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2021, 9:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/44 "2021-03-08T21:06:42Z")
50% of all humans are female. Ergo, 50% of all females are human. That’s your logic. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2021, 9:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/45 "2021-03-08T21:07:08Z")
Concession accepted. Good day. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2021, 9:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/46 "2021-03-08T21:07:53Z")
Oh wow. I was hoping this last example was easier to understand than the numbers I gave before. But apparently it still isn’t clear? ---
**Author:** ![Kapacb-Tapac\_OkyHb](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kapacb-tapac_okyhb/32/260134_2.png) [@Kapacb-Tapac\_OkyHb](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kapacb-Tapac_OkyHb)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2021, 10:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/47 "2021-03-08T22:55:14Z")
Talking about attraction of new and younger ppl. CCP must get back station apartaments and walkabke bar with tons of donation opportunities. Such us renting living quarters, buying and arranging interior and wardrobe items, spending money at a bar and more. All of these are inalienable accompanying attributes of modern online leisure services. And its one of reason for me to buying PC and return to EVE again. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2021, 11:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/48 "2021-03-08T23:06:13Z")
Ah, I see it’s that time of the year again. A little early but I blame the viruses. > [@Ocean\_Ormand](#): > > Before any of this existed people joined eve and played it. In fact, we used to have much higher concurrent user counts then exist today. For those who were not there, the avg numbers were 50k on a wkend. High points of 60k and growing at a steady rate. 🤔 > [@Xuixien](#): > > EVE Online is currently in a dark age - not from an in-game activity and economic perspective, but from a meta perspective - from the perspective of what EVE Online _is_ as a game. You see at lot of “Eve is dying” posts. I see the dark age as, EVE has lost it’s soul, so I could not agree more. > [@Xuixien](#): > > Then CCP started making mistakes and trying to fix the mistakes with bandaids (which were further mistakes - what CCP should have done is _roll back changes that were mistakes_ and then iterate from there). I sure I’m calling this wrong but it seems to me that as new dev’s came in, they did not realize how forgiving (at the time) the player base was when they did make mistakes. Having a mature player base had it’s advantages! 😏 Surviving the 2 day downtimes seems to have made the community stronger and more in touch with the dev’s. Even with the larger numbers, it felt like we had more contact with each other, players and dev’s alike. When was the last time anyone went on a roam with a dev? There have been a **lot** of qol changes that have been good so, no, I don’t want to go back. **But** I would not mind if ccp said we f’ed up and were going to change it. I would even resub all my acct’s. Never going to happen of course, but I can dream. If ccp want to hand this game to gen z, so be it. But they are going to have to take a hard look at their roots if they want back the numbers they already tossed away… ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2021, 11:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/50 "2021-03-08T23:28:11Z")
> [@Gowa\_Hyasyoda](#): > > Sorry, I couldn’t help myself. I’m actually looking forward to when I retire and have the extra time to come back to what will be by then a mediocre game and kickass on all the snowflakes! ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2021, 11:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/51 "2021-03-08T23:28:59Z")
> [@MB\_ThePhotographer](#): > > I see the dark age as, EVE has lost it’s soul, so I could not agree more. … YES. That’s what I was trying to say! > [@MB\_ThePhotographer](#): > > There have been a **lot** of qol changes that have been good so, no, I don’t want to go back. I agree. There has been a lot of positive changes - which I appreciate! What I’m trying to say, and I can’t think of any examples ATM unfortunately, is that sometimes CCP fucks something up in a serious way, and then changes _something else_ to compensate for that. In the cases of serious ■■■■ ups, once seriousness of the fuckup is realized, I think they should just roll back _the ■■■■ up_ - and then rethink it. ---
**Author:** ![Oriki\_Ahvilen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/oriki_ahvilen/32/395043_2.png) [@Oriki\_Ahvilen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Oriki_Ahvilen)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2021, 11:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/52 "2021-03-08T23:32:13Z")
> [@Luwc](#): > > Remove Free to Play, moving back to a 100% subscription based model Umm, I would rather limit alpha to 5 mil SP , instead of the max. 20 mil SP and tune it down a bit , using t2 modules and t2 small/medium guns/missiles was tbh too generous from CCP , also being able to use faction and pirate ships. > [@Luwc](#): > > Remove Skill Injectors, Expert Systems I was against skill injectors the day they introduced them , but let’s face the reality now, CCP will never remove these, the dice was cast. > [@Luwc](#): > > Remove the PLEX vault Not sure what you ask here exactly … Remove just the PLEX vault or the possibility to PLEX your account with ISK ? Bad idea for both scenarios. > [@Luwc](#): > > Remove the Safety Button This I was against also when introduced . Without it you just have to be more careful and aware , not lazy and comfortable. > [@Luwc](#): > > Remove “would you like to jump to Low Sec” warning. This would imply removing also warnings like: you are entering triglavian or edencom system, asset safety warning if your corp has them in space when you want to close it, etc. It will cause a snowball effect . Ofc if you are a returning player after a long period , normally you would catch up and read all of the patch/update notes . These are also put there for comfortable and lazy people again . Personally I don’t mind them that much , but I would rather remove things like: “Are you sure you want to create this contract?” Sometimes this pops to me 2 times when creating one… > [@Luwc](#): > > Remove fitting warnings and tips such as “you got armor modules on a shield ship, you sure” Yeah these things don’t make that much sense. I mean, a shield tanked Myrmidon is very effective , or a hull tank Brutix , instead I get this warning that it should be armor … > [@Luwc](#): > > I would argue that the majority of EVE Players initialy got drawn into the Game for its reputation of being unforgiving Tbh , when I started it I had absolutely no clue what this game is about , just like the majority of new players (I was just looking for a game with spaceships, being a Homeworld fan). If you say that players are drawn to this game for being unforgiving , those are not new players , you find it can be unforgiving only when you have already played it or some friend that played before you told you stories. ---
**Author:** ![Mu\_ad\_Diib](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mu_ad_diib/32/389247_2.png) [@Mu\_ad\_Diib](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mu_ad_Diib)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 12:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/53 "2021-03-09T00:01:28Z")
> [@Luwc](#): > > _EVE is a niche Game for a certain set of Individiuals that looks for that sort of game._ EVE is certainly _fundamentally_ different to most other space ship interaction games out there and so on this point @Luwc, you’re right, EVE players are _definitely_ a breed apart. > _I would argue that the majority of EVE Players initially got drawn into the Game for its reputation of being unforgiving, the weak being filtered out even in the tutorial, a universe populated by potential psychopaths and sociopaths._ Okaaay. I’m not _that_ comfortable with your enthusiastic use of the phrase, _“the weak being filtered out”_. In fact it’s a bit scary to tell you the truth. You do know that this is a game right? Something that people do to have fun? It’s **not** really some kind of totalitarian eugenics project where we must exterminate sub-humans before they have a chance to breed. In EVE, while newbies are barely tolerated by some pilots, some of us _even_ try to help them learn the skills they need to survive and flourish, despite the fact that they’re the \< ahem \> _‘weak’_ (_because once **we** were also newbies_). I’d totally agree with you that there are _some_ people in EVE who **do** indeed play in misanthropic, sociopathic and possibly even psychopathic ways, but not _everyone_ does. And y’know, that’s a _really_ good thing. If EVE really did have a mono-culture of evil, scheming, scamming, psychopathic PvP’ers, or equally one full of miners who didn’t want to do anything other than mine (_and I write this **as** a miner, just for the record_) it would be so blinking boring. And the same rule applies to pretty much any career path that people might choose. The reason that EVE works so beautifully, at least IMHO, is _because_ it’s a sandbox game; this means, by definition, that people play the game the way that _they_ want to play it - the reality is that, almost without exception we **all** play EVE _slightly_ differently to the pilot next to us. 23 hours a day, 365 days a year, EVE sees around [35,379 people](https://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility), doing completely random stuff - flying, mining, destroying and so on - the sheer scope of the game is utterly bonkers. And yet it really really works. However without a wide ranging diversity of intent amongst the player base, it wouldn’t be half as good as it is. > _… by trying to bring in your average WOW Player … while crying “EVE IS UNFAIR, WHY CAN CODE GANK” …_ I think that you’re overstating and exaggerating how bad this is in reality - in 13 years of playing, I’ve yet to meet an EVE player who proudly declares, “_I used to play WoW. I wish EVE was more like that_”. > _To make EVE a good game again CCP needs to :_ > _Remove Free to Play, moving back to a 100% subscription based model_ I have an Omega account but I’m cool with Alphas in the game. I’d accept that it does probably create _some_ tension in the player base between those who are paying to play and those who aren’t, but this is _not_ a good enough reason, IMHO, to abandon it. On a multitude of levels I think Alpha accounts _are_ probably a good way to get people to try EVE out and some of those people _will_ end up staying in the game. > - _Remove the Safety Button_ > - _Remove “would you like to jump to Low Sec” warning._ > - _Remove fitting warnings and tips such as “you got armor modules on a shield ship, you sure”_ I can’t help thinking here that these are simply moves to make the game harder and harder and more unfriendly to newbies. To what end? If we make the game so hard that most new people give up, where’s the actual real and tangible benefit to us as players? If we want to create a situation whereby EVE really _does_ die once and for all, then killing off any possible enthusiasm that there might be in newbies could be a good way to do it. EVE is _already_ hard. If you really want it harder then there right be a rationale to make areas of Null Sec harder, and possibly make the rewards more lucrative, but the way I see it there isn’t this same imperative for some kind of ramping up of the hardness for every player across the board. 🐁 ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 12:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/54 "2021-03-09T00:10:29Z")
> [@Mu\_ad\_Diib](#): > > “the weak being filtered out” But it did filter out the snowflakes. > [@Mu\_ad\_Diib](#): > > EVE sees around [35,379 people](https://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility), The numbers were much higher. EVE never recovered. > [@Mu\_ad\_Diib](#): > > I can’t help thinking here that these are simply moves to make the game harder and harder and more unfriendly to newbies. To what end? Removing snowflakes. > [@Mu\_ad\_Diib](#): > > If we make the game so hard that most new people give up, where’s the actual real and tangible benefit to us as players? If we want to create a situation whereby EVE really _does_ die once and for all, then killing off any possible enthusiasm that there might be in newbies could be a good way to do it. > > EVE is _already_ hard. If you really want it harder then there right be a rationale to make areas of Null Sec harder, and possibly make the rewards more lucrative, but the way I see it there isn’t this same imperative for some kind of ramping up of the hardness for every player across the board. Sell that to the players who have already stuck out far worse. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 12:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/55 "2021-03-09T00:59:26Z")
> [@Mu\_ad\_Diib](#): > > I can’t help thinking here that these are simply moves to make the game harder and harder and more unfriendly to newbies. To what end? How little learning does there need to be for it to be “friendly” to newbies? I remember roaming around in EVE in a ■■■■■■■ Rookie ship for days back in '09 cuz that’s all we had. I remember spending hours researching the game, back when there wasn’t 10,000 how-to guides and tutorials everywhere on Youtube, and trying to figure it out. I got suicide ganked, can-flipped, and blown up venturing into LowSec for skillbooks and all sorts of things. It was frustrating but never once did I complain on the forums or demand that CCP hold my hand or change EVE into what I envisioned it to be. I was in \*omeone else’s house - that was how the game worked. It was up to me to adapt and figure it out or find a different game. Did it suck? Yeah it did, it sucked a lot at times. But that really sweetened the sense of accomplishment when things went my way. And those are some of my fondest memories in EVE, and I bet most really old vets would agree. 2009-2010ish, in a huge, expansive, open universe that I could sense had a lot of depth to it - I just needed to tap into it and figure it out. And that was part of the fun and what made it meaningful. > [@Mu\_ad\_Diib](#): > > If we make the game so hard that most new people give up Most new people already do give up. The changes CCP is making for the sake of player retention isn’t retaining players, and instead ■■■■■■■ up the spirit of EVE and making a shrinking veteran population log off for the last time in increasing numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Kapacb-Tapac\_OkyHb](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kapacb-tapac_okyhb/32/260134_2.png) [@Kapacb-Tapac\_OkyHb](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kapacb-Tapac_OkyHb)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 1:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/56 "2021-03-09T01:51:31Z")
For me stationwalk content cutoff was more frustrating than any newbiefriandly tutorial fills in game. I wanted more side content and was getting only bunches of some strange perturbations instead. Dont interesting backdays lost memories, need more content now and tomorrow, no matter old fashion troubles. Back days is back, but now CCP open free gates in try to expand pool of players, but didnt make new real traps for new players, so yes. Today we are all just r…ping near de…d game body for few years already. ---
**Author:** ![Kapacb-Tapac\_OkyHb](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kapacb-tapac_okyhb/32/260134_2.png) [@Kapacb-Tapac\_OkyHb](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kapacb-Tapac_OkyHb)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 1:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/57 "2021-03-09T01:55:16Z")
They didnt do new content that can be spotted far away from outside of game, that what you dont want to say maybe? ---
**Author:** ![Clary\_Daemon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/clary_daemon/32/253040_2.png) [@Clary\_Daemon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Clary_Daemon)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 1:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/58 "2021-03-09T01:59:42Z")
Eve is always going to be a niche game. However, in order for this game to continue for another decade or more, ccp needs to draw in new subscribers. The old community is dying out. People move on, or if they stay, they stagnate. As the community stagnates, more people quit playing. The fewer players there are, the less likely the game will be financially viable for continued development. With no new development, the game dies completely. New players have different needs and wants than the 2004 player base did. People were just leaving games like everquest and dark age of camelot. Those games couldn’t compete in today’s market because they stagnated, and eventually went completely free to play. Less than 20,000 people still play, and they’re the hardest core diehards ever born. We don’t want eve to turn into that. So, this community needs to adapt as ccp adapts to the needs of the next generation of gamers. Easier sp gain, easier learning curve, easier surface game play. There’s always going to be more complex game play, which will slowly draw in the instant gratification generation. What we need is to attract those players, and keep them playing until they’re interested in the more complex systems. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 2:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/59 "2021-03-09T02:07:11Z")
Once the age of chaos is over, all the game will attract for the most part will be either bots or multiboxers. Last numbers I had from the ISD was there apx 200 ppl on the forums. Our opinions are a minority by along shot. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 2:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/60 "2021-03-09T02:13:32Z")
You know, it’s funny how the seemingly entitled these days say we need more when the game did better when ccp gave less? ---
**Author:** ![Clary\_Daemon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/clary_daemon/32/253040_2.png) [@Clary\_Daemon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Clary_Daemon)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 2:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/61 "2021-03-09T02:16:22Z")
The game did better back then because it was the only of it’s kind. That isn’t true anymore. Games use to last longer, and have real fan bases. Now they come out with a new $60 title every year, and you have so many franchises that are essentially the same game. Now games boast if they have 100 hours of content. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186.md?page=4)