# EVE will always be a nichè Game **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 8, 2021, 8:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186 "2021-03-08T08:43:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2021, 5:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/82 "2021-03-14T05:37:04Z")
Because the effort needed to develop that feature, and especially to make it multiplayer, would require an investment that was very unlikely to pay off. ---
**Author:** ![Noori\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/noori_naarian/32/261285_2.png) [@Noori\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Noori_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2021, 6:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/83 "2021-03-14T06:47:57Z")
Even is a niche game, its an mmo-sandbox, because none of them exist and its never been done before. /rolls eyes. > [@Luwc](#): > > - Remove Free to Play, moving back to a 100% subscription based model > - Remove Skill Injectors, Expert Systems > - Remove the PLEX vault > - Remove the Safety Button > - Remove “would you like to jump to Low Sec” warning. > - Remove fitting warnings and tips such as “you got armor modules on a shield ship, you sure” How does removing any of this help the game? It will not bring more people, or bring people back and a large amount of it will impact the game, its new players, and the economy of the game in a negative way. Not only that, but it will impact ccp in a negative way. > [@Luwc](#): > > the next 2 weeks while crying “EVE IS UNFAIR, WHY CAN CODE GANK” until CCP finally gives in, CCP is sacrificing its paying (subscribing), loyal, core community for a quick profit. Now we get to the real issue, which is you want to gank the newbies. There is a reason why eve has horrible, horrible retention rates (Some of the worst in the industry), and its largely due to this stance. What you guys fail to recognize is what is so blatantly obvious to use designers who actually work on massively (millions of players) successful games, namely, that most people DO NOT WANT TO PVP (and btw, its literally all i do (ie null pvp) in eve)). The game needs high sec to be save from non-consensual pvp (ie, you need to have a mutual war dec to fight them in high sec) you can do what you want in the other places of eve. Also, on the topic of what you think should be removed (more specifically the subscription)… Eve should be 100% free to play and have far more benefits (multi-character training @ x3-4 rate) for the current subscription, so the game can be highly motivating in subscribing to it. Free subscription means more people and even desperately needs that. There is a point where the population growth (and population itself ) needs to maintain for the game to exist, and the game itself has been dancing over the two sides of that line for far to long. Its possible with the right hit that the game could irreversibly die. This would be a massive blow to the genre in the industry, and that (as a designer) i feel would be really bad not just for the game, its players, but for gaming in general because eve does have some significantly good things about it, some of which i think are so innovative that they will change the future of gaming, though people dont really recognize it). ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2021, 7:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/84 "2021-03-14T07:14:30Z")
> [@Noori\_Naarian](#): > > Now we get to the real issue, which is you want to gank the newbies. Ccp took away a lot of the casual pvp in the game. They only have themselves to blame. Give the pvp’ers a place again and maybe the problem will fix itself? ---
**Author:** ![Noori\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/noori_naarian/32/261285_2.png) [@Noori\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Noori_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2021, 7:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/85 "2021-03-14T07:17:08Z")
> [@MB\_ThePhotographer](#): > > Ccp took away a lot of the casual pvp in the game. They only have themselves to blame. Give the pvp’ers a place again and maybe the problem will fix itself? You act like there is no pvp, yet the biggest events in the history of eve just took place a few weeks ago, and have been taking place over the last few months. This is not about pvp, its about you, and people like you trying to pass off your crying about not being able to gank noobs claiming thats a pvp problem, when its not. Its a you problem. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2021, 7:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/86 "2021-03-14T07:18:16Z")
Your an ass if you think for one moment I gank. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2021, 7:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/87 "2021-03-14T07:21:22Z")
> [@Noori\_Naarian](#): > > This is not about pvp, its about you, and people like you trying to pass off your crying about not being able to gank noobs claiming thats a pvp problem, when its not. Its a you problem. That’s an utterly nonsensical argument, because “noobs” can still be ganked _just fine_, so there’s no reason for anyone to cry about not being able to do it. It’s the old vetbears who know how to exploit all of the new PvP limitations and avoidance-favoring game mechanics _in all areas of space_ that can’t be killed anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Noori\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/noori_naarian/32/261285_2.png) [@Noori\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Noori_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2021, 7:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/88 "2021-03-14T07:25:22Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > It’s the old vetbears who know how to exploit all of the new PvP limitations and avoidance-favoring game mechanics _in all areas of space_ that can’t be killed anymore. There is definitely some need for major changes to eve. There is a big issue with a lot of eves abuse by vet or senior players (especially coalition leaders), its really a moth-hole ridden shirt and it will take a lot to fix it, but before any of that can be done we need people to keep the game alive to give it purpose to make those changes. These things just cant happen while the majority of people in eve, or potentially wanting to play it are chased away because they are not “pvpers”. This is a sandbox and they should be able to play in it how they want, not how someone else forces them, which is why removing the ganking etc from high sec will give them part of the sandbox to do just that. Out side of that labeling eve a niche game is a joke, and a bad one at that. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2021, 7:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/89 "2021-03-14T07:27:24Z")
> [@Noori\_Naarian](#): > > is a joke, and a bad one at that. Sad but true. Give the game to the snowflakes. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2021, 7:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/90 "2021-03-14T07:28:44Z")
> [@Noori\_Naarian](#): > > which is why removing the ganking etc from high sec will give them part of the sandbox to do just that. Your solution necessarily entails benefiting the engorged vetbears more than any new player you’re trying to “help.” And, let’s face it, _that’s_ what it’s all about; you’re using new players as human shields to try to get concessions that would predominantly benefit _you_. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2021, 7:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/91 "2021-03-14T07:29:43Z")
It’s an old tactic of his. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2021, 7:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/92 "2021-03-14T07:33:57Z")
> [@Noori\_Naarian](#): > > There is a big issue with a lot of eves abuse by vet or senior players (especially coalition leaders) [You’re gonna go far kid lyrics - The Offspring - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DTLcR5awn0) ---
**Author:** ![Noori\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/noori_naarian/32/261285_2.png) [@Noori\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Noori_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2021, 12:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/93 "2021-03-14T12:09:55Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > any new player you’re trying to “help.” This is not about new, or old players as much as its about people who don’t want to do pvp (who make just over up half the population of mmos). > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > And, let’s face it, _that’s_ what it’s all about; you’re using new players as human shields to try to get concessions that would predominantly benefit _you_. Benefit me, the nullsec pvper who does nothing other then nullsec pvp (literally)? To be clear, I think the game needs lots of changes for everyone, not just high sec. This is just my position as a designer/developer on how to populate the game. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2021, 12:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/94 "2021-03-14T12:28:21Z")
> [@Noori\_Naarian](#): > > This is not about new, or old players as much as its about people who don’t want to do pvp (who make just over up half the population of mmos). ⬇ > [@Noori\_Naarian](#): > > Now we get to the real issue, which is you want to gank the newbies. There is a reason why eve has horrible, horrible retention rates (Some of the worst in the industry), and its largely due to this stance. * * * > [@Noori\_Naarian](#): > > Benefit me, the nullsec pvper who does nothing other then nullsec pvp (literally)? ⬇ > [@Frustrating and unfair](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/frustrating-and-unfair/300033/56): > > There was a massive and highly active mission/trade community then (I know I made 3.2 trillion isk in those days off trading). * * * All you do is flip-flop. You’re so deep down the rabbit hole of lies, that you can’t even keep track of what you say between one post and the next. You want ganking removed because you want to AFK your income. Player retention, newbies, et cetera, are all just a front to try to validate your self-serving intentions. And as someone who admitted to _making real money from this game_, it’s not difficult to imagine how this could be the case. JFC. I should just make a bot to automate my responses. People like you make it _too_ easy. ---
**Author:** ![Noori\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/noori_naarian/32/261285_2.png) [@Noori\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Noori_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2021, 1:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/95 "2021-03-14T13:02:54Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > You want ganking removed because you want to AFK your income. Player retention, newbies, et cetera, are all just a front to try to validate your self-serving intentions. If you knew anything about me and my stances you’d know i do not want any type of afking in eve. this includes mining, and ratting as well. It is horrible for the game, encourages alt stacking, and ultimately works against free to play (fully) eve which i believe could incentivize lots of people back or to the game. So No, I do not want afk anything. its bad design, actually. I also stated clearly why i want to remove high sec NON-CONSENSUAL PVP, which is because “most people dont want to do it”. The danger for them should be in things like rats, environmental dangers, and even racing against the timer or they dont get the reward (like filament type play). ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2021, 1:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/96 "2021-03-14T13:19:42Z")
> [@Noori\_Naarian](#): > > If you knew anything about me Oh I’ve heard things. The stories people told me about you? If I were around when you were doing that stuff, I’d be on the front lines of the entire _coalition_ of players who united to remove you from this game by force for emotionally-abusing new players. It’s no wonder DMC likes and supports you. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/1/4/14ee1c2264139e6c09aa9fd102acab2954a8db8b.jpeg) > [@Noori\_Naarian](#): > > I also stated clearly why i want to remove high sec NON-CONSENSUAL PVP, which is because “most people dont want to do it”. But I thought this game was made for people who wanted to play a game with non-consensual PvP? ---
**Author:** ![Xiombarg\_Ohmsford](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xiombarg_ohmsford/32/172425_2.png) [@Xiombarg\_Ohmsford](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xiombarg_Ohmsford)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2021, 2:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/97 "2021-03-14T14:41:40Z")
You know what this niche game needs, a skin called the bitter vet only available to players that have toons ten years or older. You have to keep the niche happy CCP 🤣 Come on you know you want one. ---
**Author:** ![Noori\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/noori_naarian/32/261285_2.png) [@Noori\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Noori_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2021, 4:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/98 "2021-03-14T16:57:30Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > If I were around when you were doing that stuff, I’d be on the front lines of the entire _coalition_ of players who united to remove you from this game by force for emotionally-abusing new players. If only that was true. You, and your Muppets will have your time and then the game will move off in a better direction away from your triad of dark personalities into a much better, much more successful game. The difference between me and you is i am very patient, and i know how this will ultimately play out (in either of the two directions). What you should be worried about is that neither of those two directions are what you want for this game, what you and your thug buddies advocate for. Eventually, ccp will wake up (and from the sounds of it have with the upcoming changes). as i said before “ill be here to tell you, i told you so”". Troll all you want, its easy refuting your “childish i want to abuse others because i have a dark personality type”. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2021, 5:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/99 "2021-03-14T17:38:05Z")
> [@Noori\_Naarian](#): > > Troll all you want, its easy refuting your “childish i want to abuse others because i have a dark personality type”. There’s a definite irony in the guy that focused on exploiting new players, ripping them off and locking them out of their assets, complaining that others, who wanted to help those new players have a dark personality. ---
**Author:** ![Noori\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/noori_naarian/32/261285_2.png) [@Noori\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Noori_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2021, 5:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/100 "2021-03-14T17:45:50Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > There’s a definite irony in the guy that focused on exploiting new players, ripping them off and locking them out of their assets, complaining that others, who wanted to help those new players have a dark personality. Let me know when you can prove i cheated or abused anyone. Your constantly spamming of that trying to make the falsehood true is cute, and i will continue to challenge it until you can prove it. Lets go spam the link now where i refuted all your baseless claims. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2021, 7:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/101 "2021-03-14T19:02:07Z")
I don’t think ‘todays gamer’ is a good argument. Playing a game for a little bit and then putting it down forever isn’t a new thing. I, as an eve player and older player, still buy and download games and barely play some of them. Even traditional mmo players, like those of WoW, rarely play beyond a couple years. Many eve players stay longer. It’s not a generational thing. It’s a niche thing. Eve was a niche game even when it was new. Which is why players came up with phrases like ‘_forget everything you think you know about MMO’s. Eve is not other MMO’s_’,‘_The learning cliff_’, ‘_WOW is that way_’ or how they would describe their relationships in eve as much deeper than any other game they played because trust and loyalty was not ‘patched’ into the game. It was as real as the players were. Likewise people still like games that are very challenging. Dark Souls is a more recent game that was notoriously unforgiving but it still got a lot of attention. Some of ‘todays gamers’ are still looking for harsh and unforgiving games. Same with gamers seeking cutthroat PVP. Many of EVE’s features were unintuitive or harsh, but they often ended up serving a purpose. Can flipping, suicide ganking, AWOX-ing, theft, scams, wardecs, ninja-looting, a tutorial boss with a huge tank! And many of these were features as accessible to new and poor players as they were old and rich. CCP could have chosen to keep eve to it’s niche and many players would have continued to play it to retirement (as many already have) whilst new niche players would have continued to trickle in like they were. And i even bet they could have maintained it without so many jesus features and expanded their portfolio into other games. But attempting to appeal to the casual themepark crowd, whom never (and i mean **never** ) stick with a game for long was a disastrous decision. A decision on a similar level to making Dust a PS3 only game and it still affects EVE today. New themepark content has to be churned out constantly now to try and keep the themepark player interested. New shinies to constantly raise the ceiling of gameplay. More safety to compensate for their lack of responsibility. Carrot after carrot to feed their greed. That decision didn’t just alienate the core playerbase, it didn’t just make EVE boring, it corroded everyone of the sellable game features: player driven content, single shard, player freedom, the real market and lucrative reward with big risks. Years of dev time have been invested into players that simply don’t stay. Features changed that remove content for players that would have stayed, for the benefit of people who are **still not sticking around**. Harsh and unforgiving gameplay that would have interested niche players being absent. Yeah EVE lost its soul. CCP didn’t have to reinvent EVE to stay relevant. They just sold out. And now no one even knows what EVE is anymore. Not even the devs. /Rant [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186.md?page=6)