# EVE will always be a nichè Game **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 8, 2021, 8:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186 "2021-03-08T08:43:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2021, 8:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/102 "2021-03-14T20:38:19Z")
> [@Noori\_Naarian](#): > > Let me know when you can prove i cheated or abused anyone. Other threads that you also participated in have pieces of the evidence of your exploitation of new players. I had an alt in the Corp, so witnessed it all first hand as well. There’s also all the lies about being anything from a new player looking to learn the game to a 2003 player and BoB FC (who couldn’t even organise a fleet of a few people in highsec), having trillions in your personal wallet to begging for donations, etc. None of it needs to be rehashed again. It’s all available for anyone that wants to look. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2021, 10:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/103 "2021-03-14T22:54:20Z")
> [@Noori\_Naarian](#): > > “ill be here to tell you, i told you so”". No you won’t. You’ll get bored and quit, because there’s going to be nothing interesting for you to do in a game in which 95% of the population mines alone and away from the computer in perfect security space. Just like all of those other players will quit too, because they’ll quickly come to the understanding that they don’t need to pay $15 a month for a screensaver. There will be no one for you to scam, or recruit into your cult, or “PvP” in “null-sec” (lol). > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Other threads that you also participated in have pieces of the evidence of your exploitation of new players. I had an alt in the Corp, so witnessed it all first hand as well. > > There’s also all the lies about being anything from a new player looking to learn the game to a 2003 player and BoB FC (who couldn’t even organise a fleet of a few people in highsec), having trillions in your personal wallet to begging for donations, etc. > > None of it needs to be rehashed again. It’s all available for anyone that wants to look. Since you have first-hand experience, can you send me some summary points or links? There’s not much I can do by myself these days due to having been out of it for so long, but I still have some friends and contacts spread around so maybe I can help somehow. I was browsing the recruitment section recently for one of my alts, and noticed that this guy’s got a recruitment thread of his own, looking for something to join, claiming to be the best null-sec PvPer who ever existed, etc etc. ---
**Author:** ![Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jayce_fitzpatrick/32/383289_2.png) [@Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jayce_Fitzpatrick)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 12:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/104 "2021-03-15T12:53:41Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Since you have first-hand experience, can you send me some summary points or links? Credit to @Scipio_Artelius for his work. > [@How to get more people to play eve](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-get-more-people-to-play-eve/144040/1260): > > For some reason I’ve avoided this thread until now. I don’t know why, but most likely because the title of the thread to me, poses the wrong question/challenge. Here’s my TL;DR: TL;DR: It isn’t our role to get more people to play EVE. That’s CCP’s. But as a community, we can do a lot to help keep people once they find the game. Longer response: It’s CCP’s role to bring people to the game. It’s in their best interest to do so and they have marketing professionals to help with that. However o… ---
**Author:** ![Dan\_4-2-01](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dan_4-2-01/32/258310_2.png) [@Dan\_4-2-01](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dan_4-2-01)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 6:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/105 "2021-03-20T06:38:50Z")
as a new player i 100% agree to this and u can be sure that all of my RL friends would join eve online if this would happen!! sofar everyone of my friends jumpd off after they saw the p2w plex system p2w and botting/multilog is cancer to any good mmorpg just look what happend to blizzards wow! they had to reroll EVERYTHING (wow classic, to make 80% of their former playerbase come back to the game) if i had to choose between a eve classic with monthly cost or between modern eve with plex and p2w features then u can be sure what me and my friends and most humans would choose but hey in the end most of us will leave for star citizen anyway so just keep milking the cow before we leave it to die ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 7:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/106 "2021-03-20T07:06:35Z")
> [@Dan\_4-2-01](#): > > p2w and botting/multilog is cancer to any good mmorpg just look what happend to blizzards wow! they had to reroll EVERYTHING (wow classic, to make 80% of their former playerbase come back to the game) The reason why Classic is so popular is because it brought everyone back to the time when the game was actually difficult and challenging, and has nothing to do with P2W anything. Surprisingly, many players **do** want to play difficult and challenging games, but many developers fall into a slippery slope trap when they cater to the first batch of “difficulty whiners” every game inevitable attracts, and then the whiner catering keeps snowballing as more of the whiners see that the game is turning ever more into a theme park they want to visit for a little while, and they edge out the dedicated regulars. EVE in particular is an **exceptional** example of this phenomenon. Interestingly, both WoW and EVE started getting dumbed down at the same time. In EVE, this happened when incursions were released at the end of 2010, and this game saw a massive influx of PvE farmers. In WoW, it also happened at the end of 2010, when the Cataclysm expansion was released with its considerably simplified game mechanics and easier raiding (the initial stages of this were seen at the end of the previous expansion, Wrath of the Lich King, that was exceptionally easy for what was the capstone content of an expansion). Not surprisingly, 2009 was also when the mobile-casual gaming revolution began as powerful cellphones hit the mainstream. Games like Farmville and Candy Crush were released around that time. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 9:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/107 "2021-03-20T09:00:38Z")
> [@Kapacb-Tapac\_OkyHb](#): > > I want my headquarters on station, want to rebuild it for my own taste. For money. How can i do that now? You want Second Life. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 9:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/108 "2021-03-20T09:01:55Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Surprisingly, many players **do** want to play difficult and challenging games I just want easy ganking. I find it relaxing. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 9:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/109 "2021-03-20T09:44:14Z")
> [@Xuixien](#): > > You can literally watch the player base shrink as it gets older That is why CCP needs to appeal to younger audiences. With catgirl mods, WIS and dance moves, alongside the easier but more fun content available in WIS. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 11:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/110 "2021-03-20T11:55:04Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > That is why CCP needs to appeal to younger audiences. While this is absolutely 100% true, CCP also needs to maintain the veteran population. I don’t know how CCP should walk this fine line or what the optimal choices are. While I disagree with their decision to implement instanced PvE and PvP, what they were aiming to achieve - on demand gameplay that a player can do anywhere, for as little as 20 minutes or as long as 6 hours - was on the right track. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 12:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/111 "2021-03-20T12:42:43Z")
I think its a myth that the “new gamers” are any different from the old gamers. EvE didnt appeal to the people it doesnt appeal to then too. A “new gamer” is just another word for a while different type of gamer. They used to hang out in arcades on fruit machines, now they play Loot Box Waifu instead. Its a pretty lame narrative that younger players dont like to think. Some do some dont. The fact EvE is stuck between trying to appeal to several demographics but connecting with none is the fault of CCPsmarketting, management, scattergun approach to features and fixes, and the awful “DEAL$$$$” ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 1:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/112 "2021-03-20T13:07:06Z")
> [@Xuixien](#): > > on demand gameplay that a player can do anywhere, for as little as 20 minutes or as long as 6 hours - was on the right track. It was always an option, CCP only expanded. But it is still for older players who dont have anything against flying spaceship all the time with convoluted menus and zoomed out. We need something fresher in WIS. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 1:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/113 "2021-03-20T13:08:04Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > I think its a myth that the “new gamers” are any different from the old gamers. I think there are differences in what younger gamers have come to expect from gaming. I think monetization is an expectation (not necessarily that anyone _likes_ it, they just expect it to be part of the landscape). I think short, action packed gameplay sessions are also an expectation. Lots of old games (WoW, for example) have changed to move in this direction and accommodate this playstyle. The idea of a game like EVE has always been niche, appealing to a smaller market, and that market has shrunk over time. > [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > It was always an option, CCP only expanded. Yes, for things like mining or mission running. But for more “exciting” activities it wasn’t the case. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 1:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/114 "2021-03-20T13:26:03Z")
> [@Xuixien](#): > > that market has shrunk over time. With time EVE became more hard especially for completely new player… Most recent thing: addition of trig gatecamps in high sec. If I would have to start new account, not knowing anything, I would probably not bother seeing how it is difficult to survive just in entry space, without doing any PvP even. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 1:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/115 "2021-03-20T13:29:59Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > With time EVE became more hard especially for completely new player… Most recent thing: addition of trig gatecamps in high sec. EVE is much easier for newbies today than it was when I started in '09. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 1:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/116 "2021-03-20T13:32:58Z")
I showed a gameplay example why it isnt, you are welcome to show examples why it is. I understand the SP bying is a shortcut for people to have more skills, not really making anything easier gameplay wise, as they still have to jump thru the systems to do stuff. Few menus being more clear is not gameplay but UI thing too, so it may be less convoluted, but not easier gameplay. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 1:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/117 "2021-03-20T13:35:59Z")
My first player death was as the result of being can-flipped. Out of the box, this is not a thing that by default can happen to a new player. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 1:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/118 "2021-03-20T13:38:04Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > you are welcome to show examples why it is. - No learning skills. - Start with max attributes. - Start with 400kish SP. - There’s actually a tutorial. - Free stuff when they log in. - The Agency holds their hand. - Receive free ships. - 1 million SP from referral - EVE is now free to play (alphas) - There is actually information about the game available. - Newbie-friendly ship changes (introduction of Venture, Porpoise, the frigate/dessie/cruiser balance pass back in '12 or '13) These are just a few. Trigs ain’t shiyeet. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 1:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/119 "2021-03-20T13:38:37Z")
Oh yes I forgot to mention: - Crimewatch - Friendly fire off by default - Wars off by default ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 1:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/120 "2021-03-20T13:40:44Z")
But this was easily omitted. You engaged the player, it was your decision, while now you dont have choice as NPCs destroy you and its them that are offensive and overwhelming, and no thing stops them beside few player like me who can and will shoot trigs. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 1:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186/121 "2021-03-20T13:42:30Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > You engaged the player, it was your decision This isn’t how canflipping worked. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186.md?page=5) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eve-will-always-be-a-niche-game/299186.md?page=7)