# Even with a massive alliance move we hit really low player count numbers **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [November 12, 2024, 5:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717 "2024-11-12T05:37:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![YHWH\_Is\_Lord](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yhwh_is_lord/32/444382_2.png) [@YHWH\_Is\_Lord](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/YHWH_Is_Lord)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 8:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717/101 "2024-12-05T20:52:12Z")
> [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > This is true - though the number is likely somewhat less than you write “A hundred and one…” is a french expression by which is meant “multiple”. > [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > veterans were new players once, themselves. If they managed to stay the course and prosper, perhaps others will do so, too Perhaps, and some do. But the game has changed and so have video game players. A lot of players out there expect to be on even footing or at least close to most of the players they will be facing in a game. Most do not expect to be given a pistol and be forced to take a hill with three companies armed to the teeth with every weapon known and imaginable to Man. That is the problem that EVE faces as it moves forward in the coming years. > [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > Of course veterans also quit, and die, so there must always be new generations of players (or at least, potential players) ready to replace them Those veterans will not be replaced, at least not by the same caliber of players. Different times, different expectations. > [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > As you seem to realise, without stating it outright, if the gap between the generations grows to be too large, the game will probably be an unsustainable enterprise That’s the point and I think it’s at the crux of EVE’s retention problems. > [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > Perhaps worrying about low player numbers indicates a fear that the game will be ‘taken away’, rather than reflecting a direct concern about, for example, ganking, multiboxing, etc I’m sure that’s the case, although there is no stigma for it. Whoever has played EVE for more than a week loves the game. The thing is, Multiboxing and Ganking do nothing to keep players, all they do is increase the frustration. People do not play games to be stressed and frustrated, people play games for _fun_ and a bit of challenge but if that challenge turns out to be huge disappointment people don’t stick around. Plenty of other games out there. > [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > Many people who won’t own to fear will readily - and firmly - declare (with much hand-wringing and gnashing of teeth) that they only wish to ‘help the newbies’, or CCP, or whatever. Such people do exist, but so also do charlatans and hypocrites Everyone has reason to push for changes, some selfish some not. It is difficult to discern motivation online. Some _do_ want to help new players, if for their own reasons, and others just think more the merrier. Ultimately, it helps the numbers. > [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > I multibox rather modestly but I have no objection whatever to others doing whatever they wish with their time and money Even if you had, it’s not like you could control them. > [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > I couldn’t care less about player numbers - it’s CCP’s concern, but then, I don’t fear the game’s demise. I’m the same. Although I like playing EVE and it would be kind of nice to play it 10 or 20 years from now. ---
**Author:** ![YHWH\_Is\_Lord](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yhwh_is_lord/32/444382_2.png) [@YHWH\_Is\_Lord](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/YHWH_Is_Lord)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 9:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717/102 "2024-12-05T21:10:02Z")
> [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > The majority of actual new players give up way before they ever get compete with other players and/or get blown up. Competition is only an issue for newbies who (still) think in terms of “end game” and “grinding to max level to raid”, while that is understandable for them (as most MMO’s work that way) it’s a failure of the game itself and older players, who try to help them, to turn that around I agree with that. Mentality on both sides are at play. The thing is, new players think in terms of “game” while EVE is a different beast. It’s a game unlike any out there and unlike any they’ve played before. That’s also a responsibility that falls on CCP to make that clear. > [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > So very often older players… “help” newbies by showing off their cool T2/T3 ships going “look at how awesome this is and it’s so much more powerful”, they’re not really actually helping newbies at all. Part of that is due to a lack of understanding themselves, part of that is an inability to actually explain things, convey ideas and help newbies I agree again, and it’s for the simple fact that it isn’t given to just anyone to be a teacher. ---
**Author:** ![YHWH\_Is\_Lord](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yhwh_is_lord/32/444382_2.png) [@YHWH\_Is\_Lord](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/YHWH_Is_Lord)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2024, 10:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717/103 "2024-12-06T22:49:06Z")
> [@RGC\_Godfather](#): > > Games that spoon feed everything to the player base quickly usually die out fast. At least from my experience. A game that is slow placed and makes you work for everything is usually the better option. I can agree that maybe Eve is taking that to an extreme and that they should possibly take a look at that and dial it down a little. But overall I don’t personally have a massive problem with it. It can seem like a lot for a newer player coming in seeing these massively long skill times compared to players who have been playing for the better part of a decade who already have all of those skills trained. They just can’t compete with those people I agree with what you wrote. ---
**Author:** ![Skjer\_Artrald](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/skjer_artrald/32/462498_2.png) [@Skjer\_Artrald](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Skjer_Artrald)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2024, 2:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717/104 "2024-12-09T02:50:16Z")
These stupid events are definitely not helping, i’m telling ya Fake sandbox ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2024, 2:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717/105 "2024-12-09T02:51:02Z")
21.5k players right now on a Sunday night. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2024, 3:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717/106 "2024-12-09T03:28:54Z")
> [@Arthur\_Aihaken](#): > > 21.5k players right now on a Sunday night. POE2 just came out, I can imagine some players are busy on other games. ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2024, 3:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717/107 "2024-12-09T03:34:21Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > POE2 just came out, I can imagine some players are busy on other games. I’m sure that’s the case. It’s just quite a hit from the normal 35+ peak just before summer. ---
**Author:** ![Skjer\_Artrald](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/skjer_artrald/32/462498_2.png) [@Skjer\_Artrald](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Skjer_Artrald)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2024, 3:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717/108 "2024-12-09T03:40:12Z")
New games keep coming out, old games keep existing too. If eve wasn’t so bad, people played it instead…your argument is pointless. Also…never heard of this obscure short lived one you brought up…why would it be significant? ---
**Author:** ![Luna\_Arrives](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/luna_arrives/32/443430_2.png) [@Luna\_Arrives](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Luna_Arrives)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2024, 7:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717/109 "2024-12-09T07:42:17Z")
20k way back in apocrypha was like 2-3 times busier of a game than it is now. Back then people had far far fewer alliances and people just idling/botting. These days a major alliance can have 2k people on and only ~100ish active or not nodding off while mining with their 10-50 accounts going. At the same time there are so many chores/timers/upkeep that even if someone could dislodge them, they wouldnt want to due to the sheer amount of work required to maintain any null sov. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2024, 8:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717/110 "2024-12-09T08:11:26Z")
> [@Skjer\_Artrald](#): > > Also…never heard of this obscure short lived one you brought up…why would it be significant? ‘Obscure short lived game’? Path of Exile (1) has been going strong for 11 years. And the early release of 2 opened last Friday, which even though it is an early release is on the top sales and in the top 5 played Steam games at the moment. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/f/5/d/f5dfee0180bdc6277cc4d682ff4a5b1594c4544f.jpeg) It’s neither obscure nor short lived. I don’t think it’s the only cause for the lower EVE playercount but there are all sorts of reasons playercount dips and peaks and this may just be one. While POE2 is a very different genre than EVE there’s a nice overlap for players who enjoy harsh and complicated games - I like both. ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2024, 8:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717/111 "2024-12-09T08:35:34Z")
I’m sure there are a lot of reasons. But 20k or so is still down from what we historically see this time of year. ---
**Author:** ![YHWH\_Is\_Lord](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yhwh_is_lord/32/444382_2.png) [@YHWH\_Is\_Lord](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/YHWH_Is_Lord)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2024, 8:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717/112 "2024-12-09T08:39:36Z")
> [@Arthur\_Aihaken](#): > > I’m sure there are a lot of reasons. But 20k or so is still down from what we historically see this time of year It’s holiday season, players feel jolly and in a giving mood, they don’t want to PvP 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2024, 8:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717/113 "2024-12-09T08:41:42Z")
> [@YHWH\_Is\_Lord](#): > > It’s holiday season, players feel jolly and in a giving mood, they don’t want to PvP Maybe there’s just too much risk - too little reward… When it cost significantly **less** to PLEX your account and you could throw away ships and quickly **replace** them… The reality is that it’s a lot harder to earn ISK (you’re making roughly the same as you always were) - **it just doesn’t go as far anymore**. ---
**Author:** ![YHWH\_Is\_Lord](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yhwh_is_lord/32/444382_2.png) [@YHWH\_Is\_Lord](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/YHWH_Is_Lord)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2024, 8:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717/114 "2024-12-09T08:48:28Z")
> [@Arthur\_Aihaken](#): > > Maybe there’s just too much risk - too little reward… You’re right, there is risk during the holidays, could slip and fall in the snow, get the house burnt trying to light the fireplace, choke on a turkey bone, fall from the ladder while hanging Christmas lights… Oh, wait - you meant in EVE? 😄 Little reward is right, that’s why I play for fun, not reward. Just knowing that I’m stealing ore from the locals and getting isk for it is satisfying enough. Besides, kids and animals get rewards and I’m neither of those. ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2024, 8:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717/115 "2024-12-09T08:53:33Z")
> [@YHWH\_Is\_Lord](#): > > Little reward is right, that’s why I play for fun, not reward. I think many players have switched to this mindset - so they’re not logging in as often (or for as long). And more and more they’re looking for **quality** gameplay. I mean, the dailies used to be passive - you could login, collect some SP and random rewards (SKINs, bonus SP) - and then do what you want to do. Then they made it active - which meant doing specific tasks. After much protest they “fixed” it such that it wasn’t such a chore - and it was better. Now it’s been nerfed all to h\*ll - and it’s worse than the first iteration. ---
**Author:** ![YHWH\_Is\_Lord](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yhwh_is_lord/32/444382_2.png) [@YHWH\_Is\_Lord](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/YHWH_Is_Lord)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2024, 8:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717/116 "2024-12-09T08:58:49Z")
> [@Arthur\_Aihaken](#): > > so they’re not logging in as often (or for as long). You’re absolutely right about that. I ain’t staying logged in for no 8 hours! I don’t have ADHD 😆 2 to 3 hours max and I’m ready to do something else. CCP’s loss. If they want me to stay logged in longer they have to give me a reason. > [@Arthur\_Aihaken](#): > > And more and more they’re looking for **quality** gameplay You’re right about that again. Doing chores ain’t my idea of fun. ---
**Author:** ![Skjer\_Artrald](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/skjer_artrald/32/462498_2.png) [@Skjer\_Artrald](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Skjer_Artrald)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2024, 6:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717/117 "2024-12-10T06:07:13Z")
ok poe2 spokesman, last sunday _banana_ was just as popular ---
**Author:** ![YHWH\_Is\_Lord](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yhwh_is_lord/32/444382_2.png) [@YHWH\_Is\_Lord](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/YHWH_Is_Lord)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2024, 6:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717/118 "2024-12-10T06:15:08Z")
> [@Skjer\_Artrald](#): > > ok poe2 spokesman, last sunday _banana_ was just as popular 🤣 … ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2024, 7:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717/119 "2024-12-10T07:34:10Z")
> [@Skjer\_Artrald](#): > > ok poe2 spokesman, last sunday _banana_ was just as popular If you’re going to talk obvious BS hyperbole, you’re going to get called on it. If you don’t _like_ that then don’t talk obvious BS hyperbole. ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2024, 7:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717/120 "2024-12-10T07:40:40Z")
Do we have a lower player count? Yes. Does this translate into fewer (but more active) players? Maybe. Are players having longer sessions now than in the past? Probably not (though there may be exceptions). [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717.md?page=5) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717.md?page=7)