# Even with a massive alliance move we hit really low player count numbers **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [November 12, 2024, 5:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717 "2024-11-12T05:37:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2024, 7:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717/121 "2024-12-10T07:49:01Z")
Yes but that game already existed and has its player base, also that’s a P2E game so it has tons of people who aren’t really interested in gaming at all. POE2 is a NEW game which (for now) is going to take played hours from other games. POE already had quite a big following but POE2 is massive and draws in a lot of the Diablo folks as well (who previously just stuck to their own) and that all means that even before launch people were getting ready and clearing their schedules. This is going to affect other games for a while: ![POE2](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/5/f/c/5fc5d9ce0d7344b0a90791294bfe119e9af447e1.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2024, 7:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717/122 "2024-12-10T07:54:14Z")
It’s an interesting analogy - I’m just not sure POE2 defines the typical EVE player. But I think you could be correct that other “less-intensive” games (login, shoot some space bugs with friends, logoff) could be drawing more players away. And the dailies have gone from being passive to active - so if players just stop logging in because it’s just not worth their time, they may have just stopped logging in altogether. ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2024, 8:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717/123 "2024-12-10T08:00:31Z")
If the only thing that keeps one playing is the dailies they’re not really adding to the sandbox much other than some login statistic. So NOT having those players wouldn’t affect the gaming experience for other players (and the game itself) much at all, not really. So IF that is why less people are logging in (not saying it’s the case, we just can’t know) then nothing really changed. POE2 is a very active tryhard game, Ashes of Creation (alpha) is a very active tryhard MMO. And since the player pool for active tryhard games is very limited they’re going to take players from other tryhard games until they got it out of their system. As said earlier, I ran into A LOT of EVE players in Ashes of Creation. ---
**Author:** ![YHWH\_Is\_Lord](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yhwh_is_lord/32/444382_2.png) [@YHWH\_Is\_Lord](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/YHWH_Is_Lord)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2024, 8:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717/124 "2024-12-10T08:02:17Z")
> [@Arthur\_Aihaken](#): > > And the dailies have gone from being passive to active - so if players just stop logging in because it’s just not worth their time, they may have just stopped logging in altogether Bingo! ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2024, 8:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717/125 "2024-12-10T08:11:22Z")
> [@YHWH\_Is\_Lord](#): > > Bingo! That was the point I was trying to make. Anything that discourages players from (any kind of) participation eventually leads to apathy. I used to play Destiny all the time - haven’t in years. Why? Same thing - they made the game so tedious that I just stopped logging in (no matter what carrots they dangled in front of me). But hey - everyone’s entitled to their own opinion why EVE player numbers are down (this is just mine). ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2024, 8:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717/126 "2024-12-10T08:53:57Z")
> [@Arthur\_Aihaken](#): > > And the dailies have gone from being passive to active - so if players just stop logging in because it’s just not worth their time, they may have just stopped logging in altogether. This will undoubtedly be true of some players, Arthur. Let me tell you about my own experience of dailies. If I complete them, it’s only during the course of normal play. I do claim what I earn but I have no interest in pursuing these targets for their own sake. I’m sure there are other players like me, whose engagement with dailies is perfunctory. There are other changes CCP could effect to make my logging in ‘not worth my time’, but this kind of feature is not one of them - for me. I accept that players seeking a different experience may indeed be put off by what they regard as tedium-invoking features. CCP will need to be careful how it designs for such folk. There was a time (before 2018) when you got nothing simply for logging into the game, but that was when logging in was its own reward. We logged in because we looked forward to doing so, in the certain belief that high-octane entertainment was just a click away (well, I and my ganker pals, that is). ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2024, 9:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717/127 "2024-12-10T09:07:32Z")
> [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > I’m sure there are other players like me, whose engagement with dailies is perfunctory. I suspect that you’re in the majority. And you’re right - CCP has to be careful how it designs or changes this type of content going forward. Myself, I think it was a mistake removing the login rewards - because you don’t want to go out of your way to alienate every part of your playerbase. If players don’t login (or are less inclined to) - they’re definitely less inclined to undock to generate any content - and certainly less inclined to spend any money ($). • They need to return some form of the login rewards. It doesn’t even necessarily have to be skill points (SP). Random SKINs, the odd SP reward and boosters were all popular. They could add a token amount of Evermarks now that this is an option for completing dailies going forward. • They need to revert the dailies back to the original eight (8) choices and expand upon these, having at least 2-4 options for each area of space players may reside - along with a few that would work regardless of location. ---
**Author:** ![YHWH\_Is\_Lord](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yhwh_is_lord/32/444382_2.png) [@YHWH\_Is\_Lord](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/YHWH_Is_Lord)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2024, 9:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717/128 "2024-12-10T09:10:16Z")
> [@Arthur\_Aihaken](#): > > Anything that discourages players from (any kind of) participation eventually leads to apathy Exactly right. > [@Arthur\_Aihaken](#): > > I used to play Destiny all the time - haven’t in years. Why? Same thing - they made the game so tedious that I just stopped logging in That’s the way it happened for me as well. Used to log in everyday to play Destiny and then they went about some bullsht so I stopped playing. > [@Arthur\_Aihaken](#): > > everyone’s entitled to their own opinion why EVE player numbers are down (this is just mine). I think you’re completely right. Games aren’t a necessity for people and when a game becomes too much of a hassle people stop playing. It’s not rocket science. ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2024, 9:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717/129 "2024-12-10T09:16:18Z")
This isn’t really about player numbers at all, is it. This is really just “I want these rewards back for myself”. “No but see, if CCP would change the game in the exact way I personally like it, the game would do much better oh yeah”. ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2024, 9:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717/130 "2024-12-10T09:19:09Z")
> [@YHWH\_Is\_Lord](#): > > I think you’re completely right. > Games aren’t a necessity for people and when a game becomes too much a hassle people stop playing. It’s not rocket science. I remember when you used to need to login to ensure your skill training didn’t stop (before queues, injectors and accelerators). I also remember a time where if you wanted to play - you paid (before Alphas). This isn’t me harking for time times of old - even I realize that change is inevitable - but there’s a key aspect that seems to be missing in EVE: the desire to login and play the game. When players get used to a certain type of play style and some aspect of it is drastically changed or nerfed - you’re going to alienate them unless you offer up some sort of good reason or alternative. Case in-point: the new volumetrics. There is no option to toggle this off short of setting your graphics to low shader (ie: potato mode). How does this impact me? I used to play with 3 characters - now I barely play with one. Why? My frame rate went from ~30FPS on all 3 screens to just over ~10FPS. Even after reducing the size of my primary screen by 40% I can still barely achieve ~15FPS. I’m not dropping $3-4k on a new rig with the **hope** that this alleviate my issues. My requests (begging and pleading for this one, small change) have fallen on deaf ears. This is but one recent example of a string of changes since Equinox that have continually (and continue to) alienate the EVE playerbase. ---
**Author:** ![YHWH\_Is\_Lord](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yhwh_is_lord/32/444382_2.png) [@YHWH\_Is\_Lord](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/YHWH_Is_Lord)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2024, 9:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717/131 "2024-12-10T09:40:21Z")
> [@Arthur\_Aihaken](#): > > but there’s a key aspect that seems to be missing in EVE: the desire to login and play the game. That is true. There is a reason why they keep inventing gimmicks to get players to log in and stay logged in, because there isn’t much incentives for players to do exactly that. PvE is mediocre and the rewards are a joke and PvP is too costly and too hard for the average player. > [@Arthur\_Aihaken](#): > > When players get used to a certain type of play style and some aspect of it is drastically changed or nerfed - you’re going to alienate them unless you offer up some sort of good reason or alternative True again. All they’ve been doing for the past 5 years is nerf, nerf, _nerf_ and **nerf** _again!_ There isn’t much of the game to enjoy except getting blown up. That’s okay for a few times but it gets old real quick. > [@Arthur\_Aihaken](#): > > Case in-point: the new volumetrics. There is no option to toggle this off short of setting your graphics to low shader (ie: potato mode). How does this impact me? I used to play with 3 characters - now I barely play with one. Why? My frame rate went from ~30FPS on all 3 screens to just over ~10FPS. Even after reducing the size of my primary screen by 40% I can still barely achieve ~15FPS. I’m not dropping $3-4k on a new rig with the **hope** that this alleviate my issues True _again!_ The graphics are murder on a regular 500€ computer. But my beef is with all the billboards and advertisements. They are **too fcking bright!** I can’t stand being logged in too long because they hurt my eyes! > [@Arthur\_Aihaken](#): > > My requests (begging and pleading for this one, small change) have fallen on deaf ears. Pay them $100,000 and you’ll see if they don’t pay attention to you. > [@Arthur\_Aihaken](#): > > This is but one recent example of a string of changes since Equinox that have continually (and continue to) alienate the EVE playerbase All they’ve been doing is alienating players and then they wonder why the numbers are low. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2024, 9:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717/132 "2024-12-10T09:54:43Z")
Not to take this off on a tangent, but they’ve hit Marauders with the nerf bat for the last straight year - all to curb some extreme and isolated styles of play (wormholes, Pochven). Then they nerfed those areas anyway - which they could’ve done in the first place! I used to own a carrier, but I’m glad I sold it and extracted the skills when I took a break from EVE a few years back - because I couldn’t remotely do the things with it that I once could. I’m sure owners of Rorquals feel the same way. When players invest hundreds of days (or dollars injecting) various skills, fitting out these ships and gaining some degree of proficiency - it just plain sucks when they get nerfed to the point where players literally throw up their hands and are on the verge of saying “f\*ck it - I quit!”. I’m not saying there can’t be rebalances. But simply nerfing, nerfing, nerfing and then never revisiting a ship class to see if things need to be tweaked is bordering on lunacy. I know it’s been at least a few years since carriers and the Rorqual were nerfed (and throwing carriers a bone in the form of a micro jump drive fell well short). ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2024, 10:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717/133 "2024-12-10T10:03:21Z")
And just to make one final point: I don’t even think it’s about the cost of an Omega subscription for a lot of players. It’s about the quality of gameplay. You can’t pay enough for an enjoyable experience - but you can pay too much for a uneventful or downright abysmal one - especially if it’s cutting into your valuable free (read: family, spare) time. ---
**Author:** ![YHWH\_Is\_Lord](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yhwh_is_lord/32/444382_2.png) [@YHWH\_Is\_Lord](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/YHWH_Is_Lord)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2024, 10:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717/134 "2024-12-10T10:03:57Z")
> [@Arthur\_Aihaken](#): > > When players invest hundreds of days (or dollars injecting) various skills, fitting out these ships and gaining some degree of proficiency - it just plain sucks when they get nerfed to the point where players literally throw up their hands and are on the verge of saying “f\*ck it - I quit!”. I agree with you on that _also_. That’s why I’m not spending anything anymore, not time or money, until CCP starts changing EVE from a cashcow back to a real game again. All I do now is mine in a Venture and do some distribution missions just to be in space and do some PvE, get a little satisfaction selling rare ores and upping my standing with some NPC corporations and I log out to play another game, 1 to 2 hours tops. These days I’m into Crusader Kings III ---
**Author:** ![YHWH\_Is\_Lord](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yhwh_is_lord/32/444382_2.png) [@YHWH\_Is\_Lord](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/YHWH_Is_Lord)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2024, 10:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717/135 "2024-12-10T10:07:47Z")
> [@Arthur\_Aihaken](#): > > And just to make one final point: I don’t even think it’s about the cost of an Omega subscription for a lot of players It isn’t for me. I can pay a monthly subscription 'till kingdom come but I’m not giving my money for a game I only play 1 to 2 hours a day. They have to give me a reason to play longer. ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2024, 10:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717/136 "2024-12-10T10:11:40Z")
Well, today is my free 15k SP 🥕 in the NES store. And the 4k EM 🥕 for Winter Nexus (I’m really only snagging these to get the free SP and SKINR design elements; everything else is kind of ‘meh’). And the 10k SP 🥕 if I finish my dailies. All these 🥕 - I’m starting to feel like a 🐇… That or a 🍄 (stick me in the corner and feed me 🐂 💩). ---
**Author:** ![YHWH\_Is\_Lord](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yhwh_is_lord/32/444382_2.png) [@YHWH\_Is\_Lord](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/YHWH_Is_Lord)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2024, 10:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717/137 "2024-12-10T10:16:29Z")
> [@Arthur\_Aihaken](#): > > Well, today is my free 15k SP 🥕 in the NES store. > And the 4k EM 🥕 for Winter Nexus (I’m really only snagging these to get the free SP and SKINR design elements; everything else is kind of ‘meh’). > And the 10k SP 🥕 if I finish my dailies. > > All these 🥕 - I’m starting to feel like a 🐇… > That or a 🍄 (stick me in the corner and feed me 😆 I don’t even care about any of that. SP, EM whatever… I want to play a _game_, not **beg for fun!** ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2024, 7:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717/138 "2024-12-10T19:00:40Z")
> [@YHWH\_Is\_Lord](#): > > I don’t even care about any of that. SP, EM whatever… I want to play a _game_, not **beg for fun!** How’s the mining working out for you? ⚒ ---
**Author:** ![YHWH\_Is\_Lord](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yhwh_is_lord/32/444382_2.png) [@YHWH\_Is\_Lord](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/YHWH_Is_Lord)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2024, 7:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717/139 "2024-12-10T19:10:23Z")
> [@Arthur\_Aihaken](#): > > How’s the mining working out for you? The mining is great. I set bookmarks as I go when I arrive at an asteroid belt without NPC, I learn what rocks to concentrate on depending on the market value for the week, I am gaining standing for the corporations I need to reprocess ore and sell at their stations… I’m not looking to get isk rich and it’s not the point in my playtime. The point is to learn, admire the space I’m in, learn about my ship and the game’s mechanics and learn to be aware for other players who will drop on me and it’s fun for me. I avoided a few attacks but the constellation I mine in is kind of empty, mostly 0 to 3 players in 0.1/0.2/0.3 and 10 at most in 0.5. It’s relax but still have to pay attention. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2024, 7:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717/140 "2024-12-10T19:12:13Z")
In a Venture? lol. No, I definitely don’t think you’re going to get “space rich”… [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717.md?page=6) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/even-with-a-massive-alliance-move-we-hit-really-low-player-count-numbers/467717.md?page=8)