# EverMore **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [October 13, 2022, 5:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/evermore/380426 "2022-10-13T17:14:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Anna\_Stjornauga](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anna_stjornauga/32/377304_2.png) [@Anna\_Stjornauga](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anna_Stjornauga)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 9:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/evermore/380426/41 "2022-10-19T21:16:05Z")
> [@Auriga\_Menkalinan](#): > > something tells me we have reached the point where you are squirming so hard to avoid being utterly wrong that you will twist anything I say in bad faith. Projection, too? > [@Auriga\_Menkalinan](#): > > if you opposed state-sponsored media, you would not prescribe it as a solution. Or, to correct your logic, “If I oppose state-mandated media, (1) will NOT be true”. Opposing something does not change whether or not it _works_. I generally oppose murder, too. That doesn’t mean I don’t recognize that putting a chemical slug into someone’s brain is an effective way to put a stop to any objectionable behavior. Or, really, _any_ behavior. As I am not inclined to think another capsuleer is mentally defective enough to not grasp that, I’m left with the conclusion that you just don’t want to understand it. ---
**Author:** ![Auriga\_Menkalinan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/auriga_menkalinan/32/351666_2.png) [@Auriga\_Menkalinan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Auriga_Menkalinan)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 9:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/evermore/380426/42 "2022-10-19T21:35:28Z")
You do like an extreme anaolgy, don’t you? Of course shooting someone would stop them behaving badly. Yet, you would (generally) choose to avoid murder and find a better solution because you recognise that murder is a bad thing. Of course legislation would moderate the impact of Gallente media. Yet you would (generally) choose to avoid goverment intervention and find a better solution because you recognise that goverment controlled media is a bad thing. Your statement “my support for or opposition to state-mandated media means nothing in the context of…” is clearly inaccurate. Our opinions about a proposed course of action influence whether we adopt it or not. I think what we are really disagreeing about is which is worse: (A) the harm caused by Gallente inspired media (to people who would rather live in xenophobic echo-chambers); or (B) the risks of state-controlled media. ---
**Author:** ![Anna\_Stjornauga](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anna_stjornauga/32/377304_2.png) [@Anna\_Stjornauga](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anna_Stjornauga)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 9:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/evermore/380426/43 "2022-10-19T21:53:17Z")
> [@Auriga\_Menkalinan](#): > > You do like an extreme anaolgy, don’t you? It seems necessary to get a point through your rampant denial. > [@Auriga\_Menkalinan](#): > > Your statement “my support for or opposition to state-mandated media means nothing in the context of…” is clearly inaccurate. Our opinions about a proposed course of action influence whether we adopt it or not. Whether you adopt the course of action is _also_ irrelevant in the context of whether or not it would _work_. > [@Auriga\_Menkalinan](#): > > I think what we are really disagreeing about is which is worse: (A) the harm caused by Gallente inspired media (to people who would rather live in xenophobic echo-chambers); or (B) the risks of state-controlled media. I think you fundamentally misunderstand my point, probably willfully so. I don’t _care_ about ‘which is worse’. I am not saying either one is ‘worse’. I am simply saying: 1. You object to the claims of a single ‘Gallente Culture’. 2. The only way to stop the thing you object to requires a certain course of action. Thus, if you want X, you need to do Y. I do not care if you do Y, because I do not care whether or not X. It would be just as accurate to say that ‘if you want to eat, you need to procure food. I do not care if you procure food, because I do not care if you starve.’ If you championed the cause of you not starving, we would not then be disagreeing about which is worse: (A) You starving, or (B) you eating. Because as far as I’m concerned, neither is better, and neither is worse. Neither one rises to the level of ‘thing I give a fedo fart about’. ---
**Author:** ![Auriga\_Menkalinan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/auriga_menkalinan/32/351666_2.png) [@Auriga\_Menkalinan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Auriga_Menkalinan)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 10:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/evermore/380426/44 "2022-10-19T22:01:08Z")
Clearly you care about X otherwise you would not have taken the time to give me your patronising lecture about what an ignorant lier I am. Legislation is not the _only_ way to stop people complaining about their culture being oppressed. In fact, as I have said, involving the government is a surefire why to give those same people actual justification for their complaints. Blaming the citizens of the Federation for not demanding it is truly ill thought through. ---
**Author:** ![Anna\_Stjornauga](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anna_stjornauga/32/377304_2.png) [@Anna\_Stjornauga](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anna_Stjornauga)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 10:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/evermore/380426/45 "2022-10-19T22:09:06Z")
> [@Auriga\_Menkalinan](#): > > Clearly you care about X otherwise you would not have taken the time to give me your patronising lecture about what an ignorant lier I am. If this were patronizing, I would be attempting to take a tone that feigns benevolence and tolerance. _This_ is derision. > [@Auriga\_Menkalinan](#): > > Legislation is not the _only_ way to stop people complaining about their culture being oppressed. Oh, so now people believing the image of the Federation that is put out by Federal sources is _oppression_? I’m certainly glad my people never had to struggle with anything as oppressive as someone believing what we tell them about ourselves. We sure had it easy, just being enslaved. > [@Auriga\_Menkalinan](#): > > Blaming the citizens of the Federation for not demanding it is truly ill thought through. If the Federation is the democracy it claims to be, then the citizens of the Federation are responsible for its actions, and for what it allows through inaction. Claiming agency, but denying culpability for the results of that agency is dishonest and childish. ---
**Author:** ![Auriga\_Menkalinan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/auriga_menkalinan/32/351666_2.png) [@Auriga\_Menkalinan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Auriga_Menkalinan)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 10:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/evermore/380426/46 "2022-10-19T22:15:38Z")
I refer you to your original post for the patronising explanation of how misguided I am, also the whining about the merciless bombardment of weaponized sitcoms. I don’t believe it is oppression, no, I believe it is entertainment. Often not very good entertainment but that is all. OK, call me when President Blaque grants you your wish. ---
**Author:** ![Anna\_Stjornauga](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anna_stjornauga/32/377304_2.png) [@Anna\_Stjornauga](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anna_Stjornauga)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 10:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/evermore/380426/47 "2022-10-19T22:17:22Z")
> [@Auriga\_Menkalinan](#): > > OK, call me when President Blaque grants you your wish. Your President is categorically incapable of granting the only wish I’ve made in this discussion. I would have to speak with your medbay operators about making sure they stop using defective brain-tissue. ---
**Author:** ![Auriga\_Menkalinan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/auriga_menkalinan/32/351666_2.png) [@Auriga\_Menkalinan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Auriga_Menkalinan)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 10:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/evermore/380426/48 "2022-10-19T22:25:48Z")
> [@Anna\_Stjornauga](#): > > Personally, I think your whole insane system of mob rule is idiotic and every politician in your Senate should probably be shot for conspiring against their citizens. Careful what you wish for, M. Blaque probably agrees with you and has the capacity to deliver. ---
**Author:** ![Anna\_Stjornauga](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anna_stjornauga/32/377304_2.png) [@Anna\_Stjornauga](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anna_Stjornauga)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 10:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/evermore/380426/49 "2022-10-19T22:42:47Z")
An opinion is not a wish. But keep up that fine tradition of Gallente duplicity. ---
**Author:** ![Makoto\_Priano](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makoto_priano/32/383919_2.png) [@Makoto\_Priano](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Makoto_Priano)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2022, 12:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/evermore/380426/50 "2022-10-20T12:22:48Z")
While services are of course a point of little concern, the [AI-governed quasi-hive of Evermore’s Iris is something more](https://universe.eveonline.com/new-eden-news/evermore-announces-paragon-launch-with-new-stations-and-an-ai-representative). Edit; I’ll need to have my staff dig further into the AI’s capabilities and architecture. The multibody and FTL network capabilities raise questions about whether the framework borders on strong AI, and whether ‘soft’ is a term meant to evoke but also sidestep the weak/strong guideline used by CONCORD for AI governance. Similarly, I needn’t go too deeply into how increased reliance on AI is potentially problematic without improved safeguards against Collective subversion. We’ve come a long way since those first intrusions, but. ---
**Author:** ![Thadius\_Faran](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/thadius_faran/32/374269_2.png) [@Thadius\_Faran](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Thadius_Faran)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2022, 6:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/evermore/380426/51 "2022-10-20T18:54:16Z")
Indeed. My thoughts on Paragon on the whole is apprehensive concern. Is this the first AI of its kind? Housed in multiple engineered biological bodies simultaneously. I must admit I have not paid an awful lot of attention to AI advancements or history so in my experience this seems to break precedents in multiple ways and is concerning on that merit alone to me considering previous experiences with AI projects forcefully cancelled by me on behalf of Peace & Order security contracting. ---
**Author:** ![Synthetic\_Cultist](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/synthetic_cultist/32/388342_2.png) [@Synthetic\_Cultist](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Synthetic_Cultist)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2022, 11:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/evermore/380426/52 "2022-10-29T11:36:16Z")
❕ ❔ ❓ ⁉ ❗ ‼ I have Questions on the Nature of Miss IRIS. ---
**Author:** ![Snowflake\_Tem](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/snowflake_tem/32/432971_2.png) [@Snowflake\_Tem](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Snowflake_Tem)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2022, 3:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/evermore/380426/53 "2022-10-29T15:14:38Z")
> [@Makoto\_Priano](#): > > AI is potentially problematic without improved safeguards against Collective subversion. Subversion? In what way is this not Nation tech? There are no details to devil. Who authorised this? ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2022, 4:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/evermore/380426/54 "2022-10-29T16:12:55Z")
Nation tech enslaves and networks existing human minds. A lot of what’s scary about it is that it’s predatory: it’s always on the lookout for new bodies and minds to convert. From the sounds of things this is a being that was created as a network from the ground up. At the least it’s unlikely to be predatory. The worry is more in line with the rogue drones: what if it decides it doesn’t need us, or that we’re even a detriment to … whatever purpose it has in mind? And considering the Triglavian successes with the rogue drones, which might involve talking to them or subverting them or both, Ms. Priano’s concerns are well-taken. The Collective’s historically walked through our network defenses like they weren’t there, so what reason do we have to think this new system is secure from their influence? ---
**Author:** ![Az\_Makyr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/az_makyr/32/397757_2.png) [@Az\_Makyr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Az_Makyr)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2022, 5:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/evermore/380426/55 "2022-10-31T05:50:12Z")
> [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > From the sounds of things this is a being that was created as a network from the ground up. At the least it’s unlikely to be predatory. The worry is more in line with the rogue drones: what if it decides it doesn’t need us, or that we’re even a detriment to … whatever purpose it has in mind? > > And considering the Triglavian successes with the rogue drones, which might involve talking to them or subverting them or both, Ms. Priano’s concerns are well-taken. The Collective’s historically walked through our network defenses like they weren’t there, so what reason do we have to think this new system is secure from their influence? Nation technology… Maybe its clear that the empires should stop toying with things they do not fully understand. They have brought forth an omnipresent entity, and given it domain over Paragon and its assets across all empires. The transmuters are working exactly as planned, maybe IRIS will perform just as well? Either way, Azdaja is probably pleased by your leader’s decisions to bring IRIS forward. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 5:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/evermore/380426/56 "2023-01-29T05:50:16Z")
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