# Eve's War Dec Groups and who are they **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [March 22, 2022, 7:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eves-war-dec-groups-and-who-are-they/354828 "2022-03-22T07:36:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2022, 2:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eves-war-dec-groups-and-who-are-they/354828/411 "2022-06-18T02:25:59Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > I didn’t specify that his surrender would entail an actual cessation of hostilities, and not just the mechanical sending in of a surrender offer as a technicality See, here you’re altering the story. My asking you about game mechanics ([my most recent blog post](https://xuixiendares.blogspot.com/2022/06/not-worth-it-state-of-wardec-mechanics.html) which really only touches upon RIOT’s involvement, explains in full detail my niavete and lack of understanding with EVE’s WarDec mechanics, and how I was experimenting with them to get first hand knowledge), is not a statement of intention. Second, the issue wasn’t anything about this other nonsense, alts and different corps. It was about the language of the deal: You specifically said I had to surrender the war immediately. I asked you what that would look like. You, literally, and I’m using the word “literally” in the literal sense - said that I had to go into the interface and hit “send surrender” offer. I did so. **Then** you (and Sgt Angel) came up with this “they have to accept the surrender” BS. That was the issue. It looked like (and in light of recent information I’ve put together) that you were trying to give yourselves an “out” that was sure to work because it was dependent on a holding corp alt that probably logs in once a month to reset moon pulls to happen to log in and read mails or even know what was going on. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > None of this was some kind of contract or formal agreement, It was an agreement made between myself - a plenipotentiary of my corporation - and Sgt Angel, who is a RIOT diplomat. It doesn’t get more official than that. WTF does “official” even mean? Sounds like weaseling. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > even though it wasn’t a business agreement, but rather just a personal favor Whenever money’s at stake, it’s business. Even if “informal”. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > and threatened to destroy us/our reputation, et cetera. Yes. You guys made all sorts of threats about how if **I** broke my end of the deal, it would result in escalations on your part, and result in extra-contractual hostilities against me on your part, and said that possibly in that case other merc corps would get involved, perhaps even BLACKFLAG, and I’d be permadec’d. And yes. I said I would go public if you guys broke **your** end of the deal, or tried to pull off the switcharoo from “send a surrender offer” to “they have to accept the surrender offer” post facto. I mean, I’m one dude with alts and a friend who’s pretty inactive. What could I do to retaliate if you broke your agreement? Go public and hit you where it hurts. I want to note… that it was only after my mentioning that I would go public… only then did Sgt Angel start to agree witht he original language of the deal… I guess it’s only okay for you guys to threaten? > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Today, after two days or so, the conversation continues. Accusations of The SRS being RIOT alts were made. I said they were “friends/alts”. There’s going to be screenshots, so don’t bother misquoting me. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Likewise accusations of all sorts of “shady collusion.” I tried explaining that the SRS is an independent group over which we have no direct control, but to no avail. Yes, “plausible deniability independent group” which is cross-polinated at the leadership level. Somehow they knew that you and I had had a discussion about my possibly joining RIOT? A conversation that, as far as I know, was only between yourself, one of your “alliance heads”, and myself? How the hell does TSRS know about it? Shady. Very shady. But it’s even shadier in light of the fact that they’ve now wardec’d structures you’ve been hired to defend and you guys do… nothing about it? Oh let me guess. “We were only hired for _this_ war, not the other one.” K. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > I tried to explain that it makes no sense to blame the mercenaries for what they do It makes no sense to blame people for doing what they’re doing. Um. Ok. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > I don’t know what the side drama between Xuixien and The SRS is about. Neither I nor RIOT as a whole have a hand in that. Likewise, there’s nothing that RIOT can do if matters between them escalate to the point that one party is offended and seeks to initiate a separate set of hostilities that are external to whatever was part of the initial agreement/guarantee. None of the wardecs have dropped. There hasn’t been any kind of cooldown period. To try to argue that this is “a separate conflict” just 1-2 days later seems… tenuous at best. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2022, 2:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eves-war-dec-groups-and-who-are-they/354828/412 "2022-06-18T02:29:49Z")
> [@Wesley\_Baird](#): > > This is awesome coming from you. > > You do realize you are the one who lost their mind over losing a structure. When you have been killing other peoples structures without no remorse. Yeah so again, not interested. Waiting for the screenshots. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2022, 2:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eves-war-dec-groups-and-who-are-they/354828/413 "2022-06-18T02:35:33Z")
With regard to contention of any points made, I invite you to publish the communication chains. The only thing I will specifically address is this: > [@Xuixien](#): > > It was an agreement made between myself - a plenipotentiary of my corporation - and Sgt Angel, who is a RIOT diplomat. It doesn’t get more official than that. WTF does “official” even mean? Sounds like weaseling. Your options were to either get completely destroyed, or to drop the conflict and keep your HQ. It was the former by default, and because of our relationship, I was able to turn it into the latter. We were and are getting _nothing_ in return for this. In fact, we would be losing out on the kills, drops, and content. There was no contractual consideration given to us, by you, for doing this. It was _entirely_ an act of charity on my part. It was nothing but the promise of a _gift,_ which is a promise we didn’t _have_ to keep, but did _anyway._ ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2022, 2:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eves-war-dec-groups-and-who-are-they/354828/414 "2022-06-18T02:38:42Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Your options were to either get completely destroyed, or to drop the conflict and keep your HQ. Has nothing to do with whether or not the agreement was formal or informal or whatever. Sounds like you’re basically saying “we’re the big fish we can do what we want.” And sure you can. But eh… it’s gonna affect your reputation. And it already is. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > It was nothing but the promise of a _gift,_ which is a promise we didn’t _have_ to keep, There you go folks. RIOT doesn’t feel they “have” to keep their word. It’s not their **bond**. You also never answered what “official” means. Two diplomats making an agreement somehow not being “official” somehow escapes my ken. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2022, 2:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eves-war-dec-groups-and-who-are-they/354828/415 "2022-06-18T02:40:26Z")
> [@Xuixien](#): > > Sounds like you’re basically saying “we’re the big fish we can do what we want.” Correct, we are. And the fact that despite being the big fish, we kept our word and your HQ is alive, is a testament to our trustworthiness, and to how much of a bond our word is. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2022, 2:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eves-war-dec-groups-and-who-are-they/354828/416 "2022-06-18T02:48:34Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > > [@Xuixien](#): > > > > Sounds like you’re basically saying “we’re the big fish we can do what we want.” > > Correct, we are. There you go folks. There it is. I almost don’t even have to write a blog now. Make a deal with R I 0 T. They’ll try to change the word of the deal post facto. They’ll try to shift responsibility to someone else for what they’re actively choosing to do. Blame “unrelated” third parties despite their leadership clearly being friends enough to talk about recruitment news? I mean it’s not like my joining any organization is particularly relevant. I’m basically nobody. They’ll threaten. other consequences, permadecs and other mercs! They’ll say it “wasn’t an official agreement”, even if it was an agreement between two diplomats. They’ll make deals between their friends but their friends are free to break the deal, and it’s okay because of hurt feelings, or unsavory words, or whatever - no consequence for doing so. It seems their friends, also, are not responsibility for their actions. And if you hire them as mercs to defend you, well, maybe their friends in the “independent” “third party” group… will find out about any timers you have… and maybe they’ll dec you and R I 0 T will turn a blind eye because… well after all, “independent”, “third party”, despite being friends… no chain of responsibility there, just completely unrelated and independent atoms in a vacuum… > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > And the fact that despite being the big fish, we kept our word and your HQ is alive Only agreed after I threatened to go public if it was destroyed. Something not to forget: you tried to switch the deal, and then I brought the fact that I chronicle everything I do in EVE on a blog. And then your tones changed. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2022, 2:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eves-war-dec-groups-and-who-are-they/354828/417 "2022-06-18T02:54:29Z")
As an aside, I want to use Destiny’s “responsibility” logic here: I am completely not to blame for any loss of reputation on RIOT’s part or bad publicity. After all, I’m just a blogger and chronicler of what I experience in EVE, and my thoughts and opinions on it! I’m just doing what I do. Can’t blame me for it. I’m basically just a reporter! FREE PRESS BIATZZZZZCH ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2022, 2:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eves-war-dec-groups-and-who-are-they/354828/418 "2022-06-18T02:55:59Z")
Once again, it wasn’t a “deal.” It was just me trying to help a friend from taking an unnecessary loss. A deal implies that both sides are giving something in exchange for something else in return. This, on the other hand, was just me finding a way for you to keep your HQ intact. It was quite literally a favor, done in exchange for nothing. If someone says they’ll buy you a PlayStation as a gift, and then doesn’t do it, you can’t actually sue them for not buying you the PlayStation. Except in this case, I actually bought you that PlayStation. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2022, 3:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eves-war-dec-groups-and-who-are-they/354828/419 "2022-06-18T03:03:54Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Once again, it wasn’t a “deal.” It was just me trying to help a friend from taking an unnecessary loss. > [/quote] [quote=“Destiny Corrupted, post:418, topic:354828, username:Destiny\_Corrupted”] > A deal implies that both sides are giving something in exchange for something else in return. Oh it wasn’t a “deal”, it was just a favor. It was a gift! With stipulations. See how they shift language and try to dictionary warrior? A deal. An agreement. A treaty. Whatever. If you want to dictionary lawyer the colloquial use of a term, be my guest. It **really** makes your case stronger. Also stop calling me “friend”. We’re not. We never were. That’s why I’m telling you this isn’t personal. Had you been an actual friend, it would have been personal. I started sending you some EVEMails to move in that direction, but unfortunately you ended up on the wrong side of BS. We’ve had aligned interests in forum posts via mutual dislike of certain people and some ideas about game balance we’ve talked about. As far as EVE friends? I have literally never flown with you and neither of us have lost ships with each other. I’m sorry if you were under the impression that we were “friends”. “Friend” is a word that I don’t throw away lightly. I’ve bled for real life friends and gotten broken bones in bar fights for them. You’re someone I talk to on a forum sometimes. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > If someone says they’ll buy you a PlayStation as a gift, and then doesn’t do it, you can’t actually sue them for not buying you the PlayStation. Except in this case, I actually bought you that PlayStation. “I’ll buy you a PlayStation if you do X.” is not a gift my dude. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2022, 3:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eves-war-dec-groups-and-who-are-they/354828/420 "2022-06-18T03:07:27Z")
> [@Xuixien](#): > > Also stop calling me “friend”. We’re not. We never were. Good to know. I was operating under that assumption, but I thank you for setting me straight. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2022, 3:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eves-war-dec-groups-and-who-are-they/354828/421 "2022-06-18T03:13:00Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Good to know. I was operating under that assumption, but I thank you for setting me straight. Yup. And as it’s not personal - you’re just part of a group that’s declared hostility on me - there’s not going to be any hard feelings, at least not on **my part** , when the dust settled. Totally understand if you hold a grudge after. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2022, 4:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eves-war-dec-groups-and-who-are-they/354828/422 "2022-06-18T04:32:01Z")
> [@Wesley\_Baird](#): > > So ill step out of this continues. Sigh. > [@Wesley\_Baird](#): > > No for real, no more responses from me. Then still more responses. Sigh. Claims other person is angry and crazy, but can’t just quit a thread. ---
**Author:** ![Githany\_Red](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/githany_red/32/378551_2.png) [@Githany\_Red](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Githany_Red)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2022, 5:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eves-war-dec-groups-and-who-are-they/354828/423 "2022-06-18T05:18:11Z")
So another insite into war Dec groups all very interesting, looking forward to who is next up , unless someone wants to do an epilogue to this story ? Maybe more about SRS would be interesting ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2022, 7:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eves-war-dec-groups-and-who-are-they/354828/424 "2022-06-18T07:21:09Z")
Oh my word, this exploded all of a sudden. Still I am impressed with RIOT in the sense that they kept their word, being a merc is a trust business, I remember when Gevlon Goblin was fleeced and that dealt a major blow to the people concerned. Still one thing is clear and Xuixien should understand this about mercs, it is not about friendship, it is about money and power and that a merc did bend over backwards a bit is something he should accept. For example I like Kane as a player from my period of interaction with him, but I expect no favours from him at any time should we be at war and nor do I expect that unless I pay I will get any help despite the suggestion of certain people here. As a matter of record before I logged I noticed Destiny and one of his many alts come into the system I was in, at least I know that Destiny can use a locator agent. Bit of sleuthing there… > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Claims other person is angry and crazy, but can’t just quit a thread. Well it did get rather juicy and he was being accused of something, so unless you take that sort of accusation lightly you can’t really blame him. Or can you, did you? * * * I don’t understand why PvP players seem to think that they have a right to war dec and not be threatened by others, I noticed this sense of entitlement in the war dec discord, in one breath they would state forcibly that there had to be risk of loss in Eve, it was a PvP game while talking down to me, but in the next breath they would complain about having to defend a war HQ against bigger and stronger mercs like PIRAT at the time. I was like WTF, it was pure entitled thinking and I lost a lot of respect for certain people in that Discord. I put up a structure to do Indy in hisec, I am told that I have to defend that structure, they put up a structure to do wars, and they do not accept that they have to defend that structure. It is really sad to see this on people who define themselves as being at the top of the food chain in Eve. Come on be serious guys, you are making yourselves look like a joke. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2022, 8:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eves-war-dec-groups-and-who-are-they/354828/426 "2022-06-18T08:25:21Z")
Blackflag. have a business model of protection money from them and others, I am not making any comment about this in terms of moral right or anything like that, it is purely based on the application of power and this is Eve, what the game is. Blackflag. control and make money out of the ability to produce close to Jita and as part of this service they protect those that pay against others, such as RIOT. RIOT are obviously trying to do the same in their area. Hence the conflict with RIOT over their incursions into Caldari space. Of course smaller war deccers are going to come up against this, just like indy players do, both are in the same boot against such power. It is an interesting level of play and to be blunt one of the reasons I like this game because it is a higher level of play then just running around blowing up anything that moves for laughs. People complaining about this is like complaining about the tide coming in… ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2022, 8:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eves-war-dec-groups-and-who-are-they/354828/427 "2022-06-18T08:34:00Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > I am not making any comment about this in terms of moral right 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2022, 8:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eves-war-dec-groups-and-who-are-they/354828/428 "2022-06-18T08:45:06Z")
Another riveting political science lecture by Professor Dracvlad, and this time I didn’t even need $150,000 worth of student loans! ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2022, 12:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eves-war-dec-groups-and-who-are-they/354828/429 "2022-06-18T12:25:15Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Claims other person is angry and crazy, but can’t just quit a thread. Well cuz he knows I’m about to blow the lid off of some things that will call not only RIOT’s integrity and trustworthiness into question, but his organization as well. He’s taking it personal, so of course he’s going to be defensive when he can’t have his “mic drop” moment. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2022, 1:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eves-war-dec-groups-and-who-are-they/354828/430 "2022-06-18T13:36:32Z")
Oh snap, I just thought of something: When I was talking to RI0T, they told me that our deal had to be made “very quickly” because apparently their contract was a rush job… but they didn’t join as an ally (4 hour wait until weapons free), they issued an independent war (24 hour wait). I was wondering about this: I was **also** told that everything was “very hush hush” and “need to know”. Could it be that the owner of Gavaid Janau Corporation and Volga Bulgaria Empire didn’t want the fact that he hired RI0T to be public knowledge? Secrecy was a higher priority than expedience? ---
**Author:** ![Storm\_Preldent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/storm_preldent/32/375651_2.png) [@Storm\_Preldent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Storm_Preldent)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2022, 5:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eves-war-dec-groups-and-who-are-they/354828/431 "2022-06-18T17:39:28Z")
Hello Everyone This is First time i have EVER Commented on a forum, But with the amount of complete nonsense being spouted, i thought i would shed some light on the subject of some one and there rage. I am CEO of The SRS or TSRS i see some people asking about us, We are a small group of guys mostly friends in real life who war dec and a bit of merc work and a bit of structure bashing for fun. It may be ■■■■ content for some but we found it fun. We are not alts of RIOT, Never have been this is complete nonsense. The reason Xuixien is raging out is of his own making, We where asked to kill his war HQ and thought we would give it a go for content and sent a war deck, but didn’t do anything because we had a large war on the go. Normally in wars we get to actually know some of EVE online’s nice people, This is normally how we make allies and get new members because its people doing the same content, But at this time we knew nothing about Xuixien. We then noticed a large amount of structure he had reffed and thought we would go after them also. But at this time our war HQ was on its final timer, and we where sure it was going to die, But our allies wanted to keep us in the war, So they suggested we joined them to help fighting. We stated that we didn’t want to do this because of the other structures we wanted to kill. A Third party then contact riot asking them to join in against Xuixien, This is why RIOT is saying they didn’t have much time and there above statement is True, Unlike anything Xuixien is saying. But eventually this all became unnecessary as our War HQ was saved and 4 ish days into the war nobody had attacked Xuixien or been in contact with him, i was just going to let the war end. and focus on the other fight. But then out of nowhere he contacts me on discord calling me a F----t, calling Riot F— t’s, Calling me Eurotrash, Bitchboy, Little Bitchfag, Pussyboi, (All his words and i have the screenshots). Now we all know some people are like this and i laughed. Yes i called him a Chimp, as in chimping out. like a raging chimp, Knowing full well the guy is white because his discord picture was him in life. So trying to say this is racism is not true. After this he then continued to send messages to my members saying please attack the astrahaus i have stripped the fitting so a day later we finally did. I know most people dont care, but i thought i would put the truth out there. I wish Xuixien the best and suggest he takes some time away from EVE to solve his real life issues. Because EVE after all is a game and made to be fun. I wont reply here again, But should anyone want to talk, drop me a message in game. Have fun and flysafe all o/ Storm Preldent [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eves-war-dec-groups-and-who-are-they/354828.md?page=20) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eves-war-dec-groups-and-who-are-they/354828.md?page=22)