# Expert Systems - Coming Soon! **URL:** \ **Category:** Announcements\ **Tags:** official\ **Created:** [February 25, 2021, 12:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/expert-systems-coming-soon/297479 "2021-02-25T12:01:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2021, 4:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/expert-systems-coming-soon/297479/336 "2021-02-27T04:09:43Z")
Sadly, I think the Russian’s got it right… “And then things got worse.” ---
**Author:** ![Blade\_Darth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/blade_darth/32/378598_2.png) [@Blade\_Darth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Blade_Darth)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2021, 4:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/expert-systems-coming-soon/297479/337 "2021-02-27T04:36:33Z")
- there are already small injectors - SP is not lost since it can be extracted - If someone decides to stick with the game, a bit of every skilltree is needed - Alphas don’t train skills that take 1-2 months - No need to fly a t2 variant of a ship or have lvl 5 in idk. PI to know if you like PI… Seems like current focus is to find every nick and cranny in player’s credit card instead of the actual game. ---
**Author:** ![Basil\_Poledouris](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/basil_poledouris/32/258752_2.png) [@Basil\_Poledouris](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Basil_Poledouris)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2021, 5:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/expert-systems-coming-soon/297479/338 "2021-02-27T05:20:01Z")
Thank you. [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/c/5/9/c592acd0a507c083ea8235d1cf9d999630de95d3.gif) ](https://media3.giphy.com/media/8JCwuk8n2Y6iI/giphy.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Lis\_Torin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lis_torin/32/204820_2.png) [@Lis\_Torin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lis_Torin)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2021, 5:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/expert-systems-coming-soon/297479/339 "2021-02-27T05:44:41Z")
No. I can read. All that info is here in this thread… ---
**Author:** ![Photina\_Aridia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/photina_aridia/32/258706_2.png) [@Photina\_Aridia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Photina_Aridia)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2021, 5:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/expert-systems-coming-soon/297479/340 "2021-02-27T05:52:27Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Hoboleaks basically does database scraping on sisi. I have no idea what that means, lol. Hoboleaks is what, a homeless person going to the bathroom? Database scaping is… Cleaning a hard drive? Sisi is short for sister, I know that one at least. ---
**Author:** ![Photina\_Aridia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/photina_aridia/32/258706_2.png) [@Photina\_Aridia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Photina_Aridia)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2021, 5:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/expert-systems-coming-soon/297479/341 "2021-02-27T05:53:59Z")
> [@Lis\_Torin](#): > > No. I can read. All that info is here in this thread… I was expecting someone knowledgeable to answer me, like CSM person. Otherwise I would have quoted you, you see. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2021, 5:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/expert-systems-coming-soon/297479/342 "2021-02-27T05:54:23Z")
> [@MB\_ThePhotographer](#): > > Seems code is more a worry now? You act like CODE isn’t griefing just to get their jollies. Yeah, there’s some who honestly want to shake the miners out of the doldrums and get them pvping, and such. Still, most of them are just like the ‘elite pvp’ idiots in null. They’re looking for helpless victims so they blow someone up and tell one another how cool and skillful and crap they are. Are they bad for new player retention? Probably not. No worse than, you know, actual PvE gameplay in EVE. Regardless of the ‘you’re only supposed to pvp with structures’ nonsense, new players need to learn that noplace is safe. That’s just not the universe they’re playing in, and it’s not a good idea to let those illusions linger. That said, you also can’t afford to make it too hard for them to keep making progress. That’s why going after newbies in the starter systems will get you banned. But CODE’s really only got a limited window for hitting people. Once they’re in Orcas, the little gank cats CODE uses won’t do a damned thing, and the intelligent pilots have them all set red or orange anyway, so when the 40+ CODE / minions they’d need to gank a properly-fit Orca show up in local, you just start aligning and GTFO. > [@Photina\_Aridia](#): > > Hoboleaks is what, a homeless person going to the bathroom? Hoboleaks is [a website](https://www.hoboleaks.space/). Database scraping is downloading all the data you can and searching through the database to get any info you can on the things you’re looking for. Sisi in _this_ context is the Singularity Test Server. ---
**Author:** ![Photina\_Aridia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/photina_aridia/32/258706_2.png) [@Photina\_Aridia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Photina_Aridia)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2021, 5:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/expert-systems-coming-soon/297479/343 "2021-02-27T05:57:50Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Hoboleaks is [a website](https://www.hoboleaks.space/). > Database scraping is downloading all the data you can and searching through the database to get any info you can on the things you’re looking for. > Sisi in _this_ context is the Singularity Test Server. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2021, 6:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/expert-systems-coming-soon/297479/344 "2021-02-27T06:01:24Z")
I think you are still missing the point. THESE are NOT skillpoints for them to permanently fly or try things out…There is nothing that actually gives alphas advantages to anything or skipping the grind. these are virtual skillpoints… which means after activating, they’ll have the skillpoints to say fly a dessie. if they don’t currently possess the skills to fly a dessie, this will give them a TASTE of flying a dessie, and if they choose to skill into it, DURING the expert system, they can… or they can wait after 7 days when the VIRTUAL skillpoints disappear and they can still train to get into the dessie. Nothing is changing about the grind. They still have to wait XX hours or YY days for skills to train. You have the assumption (IMO you do anyway) that when they activate a ES, that they are getting all the skills permanently… they are not… in a week they are gone… ---
**Author:** ![Photina\_Aridia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/photina_aridia/32/258706_2.png) [@Photina\_Aridia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Photina_Aridia)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2021, 6:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/expert-systems-coming-soon/297479/345 "2021-02-27T06:04:30Z")
> [@Stevie\_Knix](#): > > Of course, there’s tactical skill and experience that comes into play, but if you fly ■■■■ you don’t know how to effectively pilot, you’re gonna have a bad time; that’s another inevitable result of this change, and it isn’t a good one. I’m sorry but “pilot” ? In EVE? All I have to do is click a couple icons and there I go, or double click in space and there I go. I see no piloting in EVE besides that. Yes, there are bookmarks and such but really, the skills do the work for you. I’m probly mistaken in your view so if that’s the case, please explain. ---
**Author:** ![Photina\_Aridia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/photina_aridia/32/258706_2.png) [@Photina\_Aridia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Photina_Aridia)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2021, 6:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/expert-systems-coming-soon/297479/346 "2021-02-27T06:09:23Z")
> [@MB\_ThePhotographer](#): > > Sadly, I think the Russian’s got it right… At least **one** Russian did: [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/1/2/b/12bffc2663c1440c961c3aff03d121a2cf6c3c0f.jpeg "Russian cosmonaut - Bunch of cowboys") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8kQA12lg_U) ---
**Author:** ![Derp\_McDerpensten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/derp_mcderpensten/32/243208_2.png) [@Derp\_McDerpensten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Derp_McDerpensten)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2021, 6:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/expert-systems-coming-soon/297479/347 "2021-02-27T06:13:46Z")
I see that someone didn’t make their target goal with Pearl so now we get this in game crap along with the scarcity BS. I think I’ll be letting my omega accounts go to alpha here. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2021, 6:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/expert-systems-coming-soon/297479/348 "2021-02-27T06:16:22Z")
> [@Photina\_Aridia](#): > > I’m sorry but “pilot” ? In EVE? All I have to do is click a couple icons and there I go, or double click in space and there I go. I see no piloting in EVE besides that. That’s often the case when you’re just ‘going somewhere’, yeah. But you’ll find that—especially in the smaller, faster, more maneuverable… more _kinetic_ ships—there’s actually a lot of player skill involved in how you pilot. Knowing how best to move in order to successfully close with your target, knowing how and when to kick the prop mod in or shut it down, so you can come screaming in, decelerate quickly, get tackle and still stay where their guns can’t hit or track effectively, knowing how to _evade_ tacklers, including when you come through a gate to find a hostile gang sitting right there and a warp disruption bubble (or thirty) surrounding the gate… Heck, just steering a logistics wing of 30 cruisers through a fight where 1000+ hostile pilots are trying to kill your single fleet of 250… yeah, there’s plenty of skill involved. You look to be a week-old pilot according to [evewho](https://evewho.com/character/2118323927) (another handy website you should know about if you don’t already, like [zkill](https://zkillboard.com/) and [dotlan](https://evemaps.dotlan.net/map)), so you really haven’t hit the ‘must outperform the other guy’ stuff… but it’s there, and there’s a lot more to it than just the skills on the character sheet. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Photina\_Aridia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/photina_aridia/32/258706_2.png) [@Photina\_Aridia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Photina_Aridia)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2021, 6:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/expert-systems-coming-soon/297479/349 "2021-02-27T06:26:15Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Knowing how best to move in order to successfully close with your target, knowing how and when to kick the prop mod in or shut it down, so you can come screaming in, decelerate quickly, get tackle and still stay where their guns can’t hit or track effectively, knowing how to _evade_ tacklers Okay. But I DO know that ES won’t do that work for me. I know I still need experience flying the ship and I know that an older player will have an advantage over me so why would I - or another new player - rage quit ? > [@Arrendis](#): > > Heck, just steering a logistics wing of 30 cruisers through a fight where 1000+ hostile pilots are trying to kill your single fleet of 250… yeah, there’s plenty of skill involved. By the time I get to that I won’t need to buy ES. > [@Arrendis](#): > > so you really haven’t hit the ‘must outperform the other guy’ stuff… By the time I hit that I’ll know a lot more than I do now so but that doesn’t explain why ES is a bad thing for new pilots. ---
**Author:** ![Photina\_Aridia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/photina_aridia/32/258706_2.png) [@Photina\_Aridia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Photina_Aridia)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2021, 6:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/expert-systems-coming-soon/297479/350 "2021-02-27T06:37:47Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > [evewho](https://evewho.com/character/2118323927) (another handy website you should know about if you don’t already) I didn’t know that one, thanks! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2021, 6:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/expert-systems-coming-soon/297479/351 "2021-02-27T06:55:16Z")
Right, none of that has to do w/ES. That’s all about the ‘I see no piloting in EVE besides that’. As for ES… > [@Arrendis](#): > > This is set up to encourage the purchase of PLEX. They get the ES, then realize they need ISK for their ships, so they buy PLEX to sell. And then, once they’ve got ISK, they spend it on the shiniest stuff because they’re _newbies_ and they don’t know better. The lucky ones become a ludicrously expensive deadspace-fit Covetor wreck, get fed up, and quit. The unlucky ones survive a week and realize ‘OMG, I can’t use my super-expensive thing I bought with real money now!’ and buy **more** PLEX so they can get ISK and buy skill injectors. For example, the mining barge operator ES, as it’s currently showing on Hoboleaks, would allow a new player to fly a ship that can mine 7x as fast as the Venture can with the initial skills. > **This is that ship.** > > [Covetor, Deathtrap] > > ‘Aoede’ Mining Laser Upgrade > ‘Aoede’ Mining Laser Upgrade > ‘Aoede’ Mining Laser Upgrade > > Gistum A-Type Medium Shield Booster > > ORE Strip Miner > ORE Strip Miner > > Medium EM Shield Reinforcer II > Medium Core Defense Field Extender II > Medium Core Defense Field Extender II Either copy that to the clipboard, then import it in the fitting window and ‘simulate’ the fit, or **when you feel comfortable trying** , get yourself a copy of [Pyfa](https://github.com/pyfa-org/Pyfa/releases) (the PYthon Fitting Assistant) and start playing with making fittings in EVE Online. _That_ fit will run you about 1.66 _billion_ ISK. Which you _can_ get, a week into the game, by spending _more_ RL $$ to buy PLEX, and then selling the PLEX in Jita or Perimeter. And then you’ll lose that ship, well before the week is up, because someone in CODE will ship-scan the Covetor, see all the bling, check your evewho, and giggle themselves even stupider as they get their friends together to gank you. And that’s gonna happen, because exactly that sort of thing has happened before. As I linked up-thread: > [@Arrendis](#): > > [Just look at _this_ special fellow.](https://imperium.news/alod-pay-to-win/) And even without going nuts with the 1.6b ISK fit, let’s do some basic math. You’ve been playing for a week. How much ISK do you have? How much do you make in a reasonable amount of time? The cheapest hull of the 3 T1 mining barges is currently 27 million ISK. How long would it take you to get that much in-game with your current skills and ship? The temptation to spend $$ to get ISK will be _very_ strong, with these. And even if nothing happens to your ship, a week later, you can’t fly it anymore until you get everything trained back up… which will take more than that week. The concept of ‘let them try things before they invest time into the SP’ is a good one, don’t get me wrong. I’d just prefer an implementation that doesn’t look like it’s _designed_ to squeeze every cent out of new players before they know better. ---
**Author:** ![Hariet](https://imageserver.eveonline.com/Character/1_512.jpg) [@Hariet](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hariet)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2021, 6:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/expert-systems-coming-soon/297479/352 "2021-02-27T06:56:13Z")
> [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](#): > > THESE are NOT skillpoints for them to permanently fly or try things out… There is nothing that actually gives alphas advantages … Nothing is changing about the grind. That is not necessarily the case. Especially for a casual player … someone who might be happy to use ES on a permanent but otherwise part time basis. Based on hoboleaks, we _ **think** _ alphas will get access to a mining barge. So, an alpha, happy to skill up to their T1 battleship of choice, can also use an ES to get into a barge occasionally. If ES are priced at sub $10 (no less than ten bucks for 2), you could routinely mine, without ever skilling up, for 1 or 2 weeks each month. Which would be less than cost of a monthly sub. Sub would still remain cheaper, but would only be better value for those who actually play more than say each weekend. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2021, 7:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/expert-systems-coming-soon/297479/353 "2021-02-27T07:12:54Z")
> [@Blade\_Darth](#): > > No need to fly a t2 variant of a ship or have lvl 5 in idk. PI to know if you like PI… With certain things it is required to V or T2 ship to know how it works really. Because the experience is very different than IV or T1 ship. I do hear your point, it just isn’t a universal truth. ---
**Author:** ![Photina\_Aridia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/photina_aridia/32/258706_2.png) [@Photina\_Aridia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Photina_Aridia)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2021, 7:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/expert-systems-coming-soon/297479/354 "2021-02-27T07:17:02Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > And that’s gonna happen, because exactly that sort of thing has happened before. As I linked up-thread: All I can say about that is that there’s a sucker born every minute. CCP isn’t responsible for people’s stupidity, all they’re doing is making things available for players to _try_, it’s really up to the players to think for themselves. Not only that, but the “whale” will spend his money **somewhere** , might as well be in EVE. It benefits CCP and the players because with that money CCP can pay employees and so employees can code more stuff into the game and other employees can take care of tickets and so on and so forth… > [@Arrendis](#): > > Just look at _this_ special fellow. That story is SO funny!! OMG I LOL’ed so freaking much! Thanks for linking that one. Now see, that guy was going to spend his money somewhere anyway. Obviously he had thousands of mulah to throw away, might as well CCP get some of that. > [@Arrendis](#): > > You’ve been playing for a week. How much ISK do you have? Not enough to buy a Destroyer, that’s for sure. > [@Arrendis](#): > > How much do you make in a reasonable amount of time? I’d say 5mil per day, and that’s reprocessing the modules and scrap I make ratting. > [@Arrendis](#): > > The cheapest hull of the 3 T1 mining barges is currently 27 million ISK. How long would it take you to get that much in-game with your current skills and ship? About a week playing every day. > [@Arrendis](#): > > **The temptation to spend $$ to get ISK will be _very_ strong, with these**. If I’m THAT weak that I cannot control myself with money then I shouldn’t have money anyway. > [@Arrendis](#): > > And even if nothing happens to your ship, a week later, you can’t fly it anymore until you get everything trained back up… which will take more than that week. I’m a patient person. I can wait but at least I’ll have something to look forward to with my ship sitting there parked all shiny pretty waiting for me. > [@Arrendis](#): > > I’d just prefer an implementation that doesn’t look like it’s _designed_ to squeeze every cent out of new players before they know better. That’s the nature of the beast. Business is business and when money talks BS walks. We’re supposed to be adults here. If wisdom fails us, it’s not CCP’s doing, it’s our OWN fault. ---
**Author:** ![Stevie\_Knix](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stevie_knix/32/380203_2.png) [@Stevie\_Knix](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Stevie_Knix)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2021, 7:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/expert-systems-coming-soon/297479/355 "2021-02-27T07:34:36Z")
You don’t get it. Maybe read some of the other posts which share my opinion and it might click for you. If anyone wants a taste of flying a destroyer, they should complete the military career mission. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/expert-systems-coming-soon/297479.md?page=16) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/expert-systems-coming-soon/297479.md?page=18)