# Fanfest 2022 - Skill Training/Attributes removal **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [May 10, 2022, 7:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fanfest-2022-skill-training-attributes-removal/361984 "2022-05-10T19:20:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Shipwreck\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shipwreck_jones/32/274382_2.png) [@Shipwreck\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shipwreck_Jones)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 12:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fanfest-2022-skill-training-attributes-removal/361984/41 "2022-05-12T00:48:46Z")
AFAIK, they haven’t given specifics yet. Only mentioned that they would be reworked. ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett\_LaBlanc](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scarlett_lablanc/32/358434_2.png) [@Scarlett\_LaBlanc](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scarlett_LaBlanc)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 1:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fanfest-2022-skill-training-attributes-removal/361984/42 "2022-05-12T01:44:54Z")
> [@Cypherous](#): > > because no attributes means implants don’t do anything at Implants do a lot more than attributes. However she specifically said implants would be reworked. Could be as simple as “+50 SP/hour” ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 5:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fanfest-2022-skill-training-attributes-removal/361984/43 "2022-05-12T05:23:46Z")
> [@Cypherous](#): > > The queue won’t really mean anything if you’re having to manually allocate SP to skills, what you’re looking for is called a skill plan A skill plan that automatically applies trained SP to the skill queued at the top is what I want, in other words, the existing skill queue. I want to prepare, spend time to set up a plan and _forget_. Not be forced to manually inject SP every time I log in or when I need to unlock a new skill. That’s why I specifically named the queue. If skill training is changed into a set amount of unallocated SP per day, they change a well functioning automated system into a menial task that any bot could do. In other words, a step back instead of forward. ---
**Author:** ![Obsidian\_Hawk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/obsidian_hawk/32/497686_2.png) [@Obsidian\_Hawk](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Obsidian_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 6:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fanfest-2022-skill-training-attributes-removal/361984/44 "2022-05-12T06:43:11Z")
Chribba has spoken. ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 10:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fanfest-2022-skill-training-attributes-removal/361984/45 "2022-05-12T10:41:20Z")
> [@Scarlett\_LaBlanc](#): > > Could be as simple as “+50 SP/hour” Which would defeat the point of removing attributes from skill training in the first place ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 11:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fanfest-2022-skill-training-attributes-removal/361984/46 "2022-05-12T11:10:51Z")
Not really, removing attributes is about “understanding 5 different stats is difficult and thinking ahead for more than 3 weeks is impossible”. A flat sp/h would retain the use for those implants while not having attributes. Not that I’m in favour of removing attributes. ---
**Author:** ![Molpadia\_Devaux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/molpadia_devaux/32/288155_2.png) [@Molpadia\_Devaux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Molpadia_Devaux)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 12:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fanfest-2022-skill-training-attributes-removal/361984/47 "2022-05-12T12:11:07Z")
Ah yes. Takes me back to my first rage quit. When they removed Learning Skills. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Ronuken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/steve_ronuken/32/373894_2.png) [@Steve\_Ronuken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Steve_Ronuken)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 3:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fanfest-2022-skill-training-attributes-removal/361984/48 "2022-05-12T15:08:34Z")
Are people really suggesting that attributes in eve contribute to fun and engaging gameplay? Did these people like learning skills? I’ve been advocating for the removal of attributes for a long time. They add nothing of value. Flat SP gain per minute, modified by an implant. Nice and simple; also removes a place where newbies have been known to be confused. “What will I remap my attributes to? What effect do they actually have on the game?” (Go on, tell me where to tells you what they do.) So you’re left with implants for SP boost (one at a time) and implants for other things. The ‘set’ implants become just another form of hardwiring, in a different set of slots. Hell, use the durationed unkillable implants to SP boosts like the accelerators, and you’ve just removed an excuse for someone not undocking, while maintaining/creating a new stream ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 3:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fanfest-2022-skill-training-attributes-removal/361984/49 "2022-05-12T15:33:08Z")
Not everyone thinks or likes the same things, who knew. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 4:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fanfest-2022-skill-training-attributes-removal/361984/50 "2022-05-12T16:21:08Z")
> [@Steve\_Ronuken](#): > > Are people really suggesting that attributes in eve contribute to fun and engaging gameplay? I rather enjoy the planning that goes into attributes, and the ‘fire and forget’ style of planning and then not touching my skill queue for a long time that rewards me for spending some time in advance. I like it a lot more than for example the daily menial task of ‘shoot some fireworks at someone’, which I haven’t done in years. This means I’m missing out on a lot of SP by skipping a part of the game that I do not like, just like people who dislike planning and attribute remaps miss some daily SP. How much SP is it exactly that both types of playstyles miss out by skipping a part of the game? I’ve calculated that in the _worst case_ a completely wrong attribute remap _(instead of 27 for primary and 21 secondary you’ve got 17 for both)_ means you’re missing 12 SP per minute as Omega, which is if you’re training skills that you have minimum attributes for. In that case you’re missing about 17k SP a day. But if you don’t like attributes someone can simply take a balanced attribute map with all 20s, in which they only miss about 10k SP a day. Which is the same amount I’m missing for skipping my daily menial ‘monkey press button for SP’ task. I do see how the attribute system is harsh for newbies, so I don’t mind if CCP does remove it. However, I’ll miss the small training advantage it gives me. And if attributes are removed, I’d also really like to see the daily SP tasks removed (and as compensation added to the automated SP we get daily), because otherwise my enjoyment of planning is no longer an advantage while my dislike of daily menial tasks is still a disadvantage of exactly the same magnitude. TL;DR: - Remove attributes = OK - but also remove daily tasks for SP ---
**Author:** ![Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/emotional_support_clown/32/310422_2.png) [@Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Emotional_Support_Clown)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 4:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fanfest-2022-skill-training-attributes-removal/361984/51 "2022-05-12T16:26:56Z")
CCP are the biggest trolls, perhaps they should clarify what they mean instead of letting confusion and multiple interpretations spread and linger. PS: Link to slides from Fanfest would be nice too. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 4:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fanfest-2022-skill-training-attributes-removal/361984/52 "2022-05-12T16:32:53Z")
🤔 With removal of learning implants they could try to make a dual system where 90% of skillpoints you aquire now with + 5 would be given “for free” but additional 20% of it would have to be gained by logging in and doing tasks. 🧑‍🏭 Great if you want to boost activity numbers. Maybe not very popular system with players used to getting every max sp with +5 implants, but they would have to keep logging in to get the sp because they sunk so much time into the game already, and would have to keep the pace of sp aquirement. Also new players would know only this system when first time logging in. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 4:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fanfest-2022-skill-training-attributes-removal/361984/53 "2022-05-12T16:38:34Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > but additional 20% of it would have to be gained by logging in and doing tasks. No please no. I do not wish EVE’s perfect system of ‘no grinding to train’ to turn into yet another game where you need to do daily tasks to train. I’ve never seen a training system in any MMO that I liked as much as EVE’s training system. Just put in a queue, optimise your attributes and _wait_. All the freedom to play however you like in the game without grinding for skills, lovely. Please don’t take that away. Daily SP tasks are bad enough as it is, but I can at least skip those. Adding even more daily grind requirements for training will only make it worse. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 4:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fanfest-2022-skill-training-attributes-removal/361984/54 "2022-05-12T16:41:07Z")
It would still be AFK learning, and better than without implants at all now. After the system change you could boost the SP aquirement by doing stuff tho, and end up better than with +5 implants. For now its destroying some npcs or taking part in arena fights, but the numbers of SP are not impressive and random. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 4:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fanfest-2022-skill-training-attributes-removal/361984/55 "2022-05-12T16:42:35Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > It would still be AFK learning I guess you consider PI AFK income? If I have to do regular tasks to get the benefit, it’s not AFK. ---
**Author:** ![ResonanceOfWar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/resonanceofwar/32/408654_2.png) [@ResonanceOfWar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ResonanceOfWar)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 4:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fanfest-2022-skill-training-attributes-removal/361984/56 "2022-05-12T16:45:01Z")
Op you are miss understanding mate its exactly the same the only difference is the sp doesnt funnel directly into the skill it gatheres slowly into unused and then we place it where we want it manually. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 4:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fanfest-2022-skill-training-attributes-removal/361984/57 "2022-05-12T16:45:39Z")
90% 0f +5 implants on top of regular afk SP aquirement without remaps, and AFK. Even without skills in skillqueue. Its really good offer for everyone. You can get some battle implants instead for the price, and actually undock sometimes to use them, and still get majority of SP. But for being really better than everyone else, you would need to sacrifice some time. Maybe 5 min, who knows… ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 4:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fanfest-2022-skill-training-attributes-removal/361984/58 "2022-05-12T16:46:19Z")
> [@ResonanceOfWar](#): > > Op you are miss understanding mate its exactly the same the only difference is the sp doesnt funnel directly into the skill it gatheres slowly into unused and then we place it where we want it manually. Which is a step backward from the current situation. Right now I set up a training queue once and wait. Zero extra actions required. In the new system I’ll have to apply skill points every time I have enough unallocated SP to unlock new skills. Unnecessary menial tasks that currently are automated by the training queue. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 4:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fanfest-2022-skill-training-attributes-removal/361984/59 "2022-05-12T16:47:15Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > But for being really better than everyone else, you would need to sacrifice some time. Maybe 5 min, who knows… Some people may dislike attributes and skill planning. I really dislike daily 5 minute tasks. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 4:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fanfest-2022-skill-training-attributes-removal/361984/60 "2022-05-12T16:50:06Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > In the new system I’ll have to apply skill points every time I have enough unallocated SP to unlock new skills. Unnecessary menial tasks that currently are automated by the training queue. In perfect world CCP would leave skillqueue in, but pausing it would not stop SP aquirement. It would just go to an SP pool. But they may have some idea that clicking skills when you have SP is better, as it frees you of thinking what to do next, and go with impulse. Then they could make you follow your impulses, and not plan. impulsively you would push some buttons and receive bacon. They would add some great animation taking whole screen and flashy and colorfull, like you see in vegas gambling machines. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fanfest-2022-skill-training-attributes-removal/361984.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fanfest-2022-skill-training-attributes-removal/361984.md?page=4)