# Februrary Balance Update - Assault Frigates and Assault Damage Controls **URL:** \ **Category:** Upcoming Features & Changes\ **Tags:** pvp\ **Created:** [January 29, 2018, 7:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115 "2018-01-29T19:33:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Phoenix\_Zohar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/phoenix_zohar/32/173397_2.png) [@Phoenix\_Zohar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Phoenix_Zohar)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 4:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115/82 "2018-01-30T16:40:21Z")
This balance is a big first step in the right direction, but it does nothing to solve the AF problem, especially for nullsec pilots. AFs will never be the right choice because Interceptors can do 250+ DPS and have immunity to bubbles. Combine that with the fact that even after this balance AFs are 100% out classed in every area by T3Ds (as they should be) and you have a class of ship that still has no role. The real buff that AFs need is a specific relevant role bonus that gives the AF a place on par with the bubble immunity of INTs and the modes of T3Ds. Another thing that might help AFs is to nerf bat the heck out of Interceptor’s DPS. Reduce them to 1 turret/launcher and you might (key word) see the proliferation of AFs in nullsec. ---
**Author:** ![Tivianne\_Chase](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tivianne_chase/32/51997_2.png) [@Tivianne\_Chase](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tivianne_Chase)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 4:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115/83 "2018-01-30T16:48:07Z")
@CCP_Rise The retribution is extremely tight on cpu it could use a little bit of love there or a mid slot id take either or both! please ❤ ---
**Author:** ![Harvey\_James](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/harvey_james/32/12724_2.png) [@Harvey\_James](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Harvey_James)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 5:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115/84 "2018-01-30T17:49:16Z")
2 mids on frigates that main job is too tackle something 🙄 … or are you pretending they are snipers 🙄 … retribution is just terrible… whats it meant too track now btw? ---
**Author:** ![wouroo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wouroo/32/188452_2.png) [@wouroo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/wouroo)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 6:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115/85 "2018-01-30T18:26:14Z")
a fitting bonus and a duration bonus would make sense. cruiser fights are a LOT slower even then AF fights, either in fleet or solo. 20 seconds on a HAC is not oppressively long like it would be on an AF. if you are running in an armor fleet, then cycle time for a large repper from a guard/oneiros is also a lot longer than the cycle time for reps from a deacon/thalia ---
**Author:** ![Muon\_Farstrider](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/muon_farstrider/32/454120_2.png) [@Muon\_Farstrider](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Muon_Farstrider)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 6:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115/86 "2018-01-30T18:29:05Z")
On a different topic to the feedback about the Jaguar, I think the proposed stats for the damage controls could use a bit of tweaking, particularly when comparing them to the versions that were present on the test server previously. * * * First, the passive resistances. Currently a regular damage control has the following stats: T1: 30% hull / 10% armor / 7.5% shield meta: 35% hull / 12.5% armor / 10% shield T2: 40% hull / 15% armor / 12.5% shield The proposed assault damage controls have the following passive resists: T1/meta: 30% hull / 7.5% armor / 5% shield T2: 40% hull / 10% armor / 7.5% shield First, the fact that the meta has the same stats (including duration as well) as the T1 is weird - meta modules almost always have intermediate stats between the T1 and T2 versions. Second, given that the ADCU has been majorly weakened from its previous incarnation in both duration and active resistances (notably, to the point where it _is_ feasible to kill something through the ADCU with enough DPS, which is a key difference), I personally feel that the module is now giving up too much passive effectiveness to gain its active bonus, especially with the increased fitting costs relative to regular damage controls. As such, I would propose the following passive resistance stats for ADCUs: T1: 30% hull / 7.5% armor / 5% shield meta: 35% hull / 10% armor / 7.5% shield T2: 40% hull / 12.5% armor / 10% shield First off, this provides a distinction between the T1 and meta versions as is the usual pattern. This also allows the meta ADCU to match its regular version in hull resists, which seems to be a design goal of the ADCU. The shield and armor resists for each ADCU are now a nice even 2.5% lower than the regular DCU equivalents across the boards, representing a slight increase in the passive resistances for meta and T2 ADCUs to somewhat counterbalance the lowered effectiveness when active. * * * Second, I think the meta ADCU should have a 14s duration rather than 13s. Previously it was 16s vs 18s for t2, and cutting a flat 2s off of each of them hurts the meta version more than the T2 one as it represents a larger percentage decrease. This also matches the pattern of the faction ADCU having 1s _longer_ duration than T2, and makes the meta ADCU intermediate between the T1 and T2 versions in duration as well as in resistances. * * * Finally, I think there is merit to the various suggestions that have been made regarding the idea of making the ADCU perform differently on AFs versus HACs, specifically in terms of duration and fitting costs. I am assuming that the durations were lowered at least partially due to the potential for AFs to have their ADCU active for a very large fraction of a frigate vs frigate fight or to cover very large distances at high speed with the ADCU on to tackle something. However, cruiser fights operate on completely different timescales from frigate fights - 15 seconds is a _lot_ longer time for a frigate than it is a cruiser. A 20 second ADCU (the original fanfest duration) may be too long for an AF, but it’s just about right for a HAC. Second, AFs tend to have _extremely_ tight fittings and many are going to struggle to fit an ADCU on their already-tight fits, necessitating sacrifices that will degrade their fits. Given that AFs are seen as being in need of _buffs_, this does not seem to me to be a desirable outcome. As such, I would suggest the following ADCU-related role bonuses for HACs and AFs: Assault Frigates: 20% reduction in Assault Damage Control CPU requirement Heavy Assault Cruisers: +33.3% bonus to Assault Damage Control duration This gives AFs ADCUs that use 22.4 / 19.2 / 28 CPU, which comes close to matching the CPU use of normal damage controls, and gives HACs roughly 20s duration ADCUs, which meshes significantly better with the pacing of cruiser fights. ---
**Author:** ![Matthias\_Ancaladron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/matthias_ancaladron/32/128799_2.png) [@Matthias\_Ancaladron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Matthias_Ancaladron)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 6:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115/87 "2018-01-30T18:30:07Z")
Uh ccps own graphic says t3s are supposed to be worse than t2s. Theyre supposed to have several uses and do none of them equal or better to a dedicated ship in that role. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/8/d/8ddbf95e175d88a755d864435d8986f96754f7f6.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Zircon\_Dasher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zircon_dasher/32/36736_2.png) [@Zircon\_Dasher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zircon_Dasher)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 6:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115/88 "2018-01-30T18:32:29Z")
Ok. I am not sure why you think that’s important? ---
**Author:** ![Makshima\_Shogo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makshima_shogo/32/247769_2.png) [@Makshima\_Shogo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Makshima_Shogo)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 7:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115/89 "2018-01-30T19:15:10Z")
More like this ATM xD ![8ddbf95e175d88a755d864435d8986f96754f7f6](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/2/1/21eb8da8269e726a13604b7c5a8d65198ea88891.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Endo\_Saissore](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/endo_saissore/32/49396_2.png) [@Endo\_Saissore](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Endo_Saissore)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 7:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115/90 "2018-01-30T19:20:05Z")
Rifter is autos and armor tanked - Breacher is missiles and shield Hurricane is autos and armor - Cyclone is missiles and shield I think making the jag missiles and shields fits in line with minmatar tradition. ---
**Author:** ![Sarah\_Moonshine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sarah_moonshine/32/49292_2.png) [@Sarah\_Moonshine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sarah_Moonshine)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 7:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115/91 "2018-01-30T19:22:43Z")
You realize all of them are getting a +30% cap increase right? Couple that with the fact that the Retribution is getting more powergrid and you fit a cap battery if you absolutely _must_. ---
**Author:** ![Makshima\_Shogo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makshima_shogo/32/247769_2.png) [@Makshima\_Shogo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Makshima_Shogo)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 7:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115/92 "2018-01-30T19:22:44Z")
Heh? I fly shield hurricane with kite fit: [https://zkillboard.com/kill/67056849/](https://zkillboard.com/kill/67056849/) sleipnir S/G Claymore S/M Varger S/G Svipel S/G Saber S/G Bifrost S/M Vaga S/G Muninn A/G shield gun coupled with Shield missile in class is common though out all the classes and its nice that way, its easier to make the AF’s and HAC’s follow the theme than change every other class to Armor/gun Shield/Missile, then at least new bro’s will have an easier time without having to cross train armor. ---
**Author:** ![Makshima\_Shogo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makshima_shogo/32/247769_2.png) [@Makshima\_Shogo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Makshima_Shogo)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 7:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115/93 "2018-01-30T19:23:20Z")
Cap battery means no point thou so then they just warp off 2mids. ---
**Author:** ![Rivr\_Luzade](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rivr_luzade/32/311061_2.png) [@Rivr\_Luzade](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rivr_Luzade)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 7:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115/94 "2018-01-30T19:43:12Z")
In a ship with only 2 mid slots? Great choice. ---
**Author:** ![Sarah\_Moonshine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sarah_moonshine/32/49292_2.png) [@Sarah\_Moonshine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sarah_Moonshine)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 7:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115/95 "2018-01-30T19:46:28Z")
That’s why I included “if you absolutely must”. Besides, not everything is about solo pvp and other people can provide tackle. ---
**Author:** ![Makshima\_Shogo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makshima_shogo/32/247769_2.png) [@Makshima\_Shogo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Makshima_Shogo)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 7:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115/96 "2018-01-30T19:47:31Z")
Good point XD no pun intended ---
**Author:** ![Stitch\_Kaneland](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stitch_kaneland/32/380745_2.png) [@Stitch\_Kaneland](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Stitch_Kaneland)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 7:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115/97 "2018-01-30T19:56:53Z")
Slicers have 2 mids and are fine. The ret will have better cap than a slicer and is now faster with more cap than before. Plus has a pg buff for less fitting mods, potentially opening it up for a cap rig or low if absolutely needed. ---
**Author:** ![Endo\_Saissore](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/endo_saissore/32/49396_2.png) [@Endo\_Saissore](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Endo_Saissore)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 8:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115/98 "2018-01-30T20:07:36Z")
No offense but that hurricane fit is not exactly… optimal. You’re trying to make it do what the Cyclone does better. Minmatar has two weapon systems just like every other race. Don’t be surprised if Vaga or Munin turns into missiles with the next balance pass too. If you want S/Gs then go with the Caldari line. You’ll find more success 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Harvey\_James](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/harvey_james/32/12724_2.png) [@Harvey\_James](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Harvey_James)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 9:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115/99 "2018-01-30T21:03:42Z")
at least slicer/navy frigs are more mobile and less tank oriented than AF’s … trying too make the retribution or wolf into snipers whilst pushing a tankier mod/theme seems counterintuitive and 2 mids on armour sniper frigs is even less so. ---
**Author:** ![Stitch\_Kaneland](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stitch_kaneland/32/380745_2.png) [@Stitch\_Kaneland](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Stitch_Kaneland)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 9:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115/100 "2018-01-30T21:18:53Z")
Navy slicer is range bonused with 2 mids and is armor tanked. Ret is range bonused, 2 mids, t2 resist and armor tanked. Only difference is speed, which the slicer will win there. But a beam ret has the cap to run its weapons much better than a beam slicer. Yes the ret will be tankier, its a t2 frig. It wont be nearly as fast though. ---
**Author:** ![Makshima\_Shogo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makshima_shogo/32/247769_2.png) [@Makshima\_Shogo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Makshima_Shogo)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 10:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115/101 "2018-01-30T22:29:52Z")
I thought i’d be smart and put all my skill points specialized heavily into shield/guns and minimatar so this patch is screwing me hard 😕 but yea I think your right time to start training blasters and caldari from frig up. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115.md?page=6)