# Februrary Balance Update - Assault Frigates and Assault Damage Controls **URL:** \ **Category:** Upcoming Features & Changes\ **Tags:** pvp\ **Created:** [January 29, 2018, 7:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115 "2018-01-29T19:33:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![elitatwo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elitatwo/32/373473_2.png) [@elitatwo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/elitatwo)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2018, 5:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115/163 "2018-02-03T17:31:27Z")
> [@Stitch\_Kaneland](#): > > So we should just drop mids from every ship then No not at all. > [@Stitch\_Kaneland](#): > > Scram kiting is significantly different from standard kiting and is actually very good in places like nullsec. Having a 3rd mid opens up the wolf to scram kiting with a/c’s and artillery, **as it will actually have range control** That is what I wanted to say. Give the wolf a mid slot, so you can control range. Meanwhile the Retribution controls range with magic. ---
**Author:** ![Stitch\_Kaneland](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stitch_kaneland/32/380745_2.png) [@Stitch\_Kaneland](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Stitch_Kaneland)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2018, 6:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115/164 "2018-02-03T18:37:37Z")
Welcome to Amarr, where they’re specifically armor ships who like lows and sacrifice mids. That is how their race is designed. Minmatar are not strictly an armor race, and on their ships that don’t specifically have shield bonuses, are flexible in both shield and armor variants. The wolf has no tank/shield bonus and it has no flexibility. Slicer Crusader Punisher Retribution Coercer dragoon They are all 2 mid ships. The slicer is one of the best kiters in the game and works just fine without needing range control, as it can project its full damage past point range (about 26km). The wolf using long range ammo does less damage than the slicer and fights in falloff at the same range(15+19km). The coercer is also a good ship at kiting because it does so much damage at point range, things die before they get to you. The retribution will now sit around the coercer, but is twice as fast and can fit a reasonable tank. ---
**Author:** ![Corsair\_Raynor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corsair_raynor/32/48444_2.png) [@Corsair\_Raynor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Corsair_Raynor)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2018, 3:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115/165 "2018-02-04T15:38:31Z")
Please. PLEASE unfuck the jag. I’m literally begging you. NO ONE picks the breacher for it’s weapon system. EVERYONE picks it for the double MASB 7.5% tank bonus. NOT the missile/rockets. ---
**Author:** ![Makshima\_Shogo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makshima_shogo/32/247769_2.png) [@Makshima\_Shogo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Makshima_Shogo)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2018, 4:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115/166 "2018-02-04T16:00:37Z")
In a few months time, CCP will have statistics and we will be able to see how successful these changes are, if the new Jag is really bad it will reflect in its usage and maybe It can be revised then. ---
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2018, 4:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115/167 "2018-02-04T16:05:58Z")
garbage ccp afs and hacs dont need unique damage control they need unique roles csm tells you to compare af to t3d and that is garbage af need a scary role to give t3d a reason to kill them the dc is a nice touch but it still doesnt give them a unique role there is still no reason to field an af or hac ---
**Author:** ![Makshima\_Shogo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makshima_shogo/32/247769_2.png) [@Makshima\_Shogo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Makshima_Shogo)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2018, 4:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115/168 "2018-02-04T16:16:00Z")
I think there should be more ways to mess with fleet comp’s some new type of disruptive tactic’s that need to be fleshed out, something on the path of MJD’s for command desi’s fun things to really add new dimensions to strategy then we can mix up the meta and bring something fresh to combat. Some Idea’s 1. Opposite of command burst, high slot module the provides a debuff to every ship in radius. Fit on different ships to command ships/destroyers so they are easy to identify uses the same leadership skills so there isn’t any extra training, but they could be a bit different instead of being the exact reverse: The idea is to make them a fun disadvantage that can be worked around with tactics rather than being oppressive, also it would show a icon on your display that lets you know what debuff you have. (could call them Rift’s instead of bursts) Skirmish Rift (30 Second Debuff) (Fleet running into cap problems unless they micro manage their prop mods better) Increase cap cost of propulsion Armor Rift (30 Second Debuff) (Fleet struggling to go where they want to) Increase Mass of ship Shield Rift (30 Second Debuff) (Mass Panic with people pressing send me some rep xD) Inverses Shield recharge rate so their shields slowly go down. Info Rift (30 Second Debuff) Increases Lock Time. (O @#$t he has an info rift lock up these few targets quickly before he’s Rift goes off) 1. Null field 5km around ship that prevent’s ships in it’s aoe from receiving remote cap/rep. 2. Repulsion device 20km radius, long cd, destroy’s missiles and pushes drones with the shockwave and drags them further away. 3. Firewall ship, 20km radius any ship inside it receives reduced effects from e-war. 4. Making Sensor strength reduce all E-war effect’s Some Cool Roll Bonus’s and silly one’s +100% damage -50% R.O.F. (Alpha) 25% Web Resistance, good for Sig tanking under web for tackle ships. +50% hp from modules. +50% neut resistance 50% reduction in fitting cost of propulsion module’s, and weight gain from over-sized prop mod’s. +25% smart-bomb Damage and Range. Armor Gains passive regen from shield regen stat. Apon Exiting warp, ships in the area align twice as slow for the first 5 seconds. (great for tackle ships, small radius will reward very good scouting) Syphon’s 20% of enemy ships repair for itself. (If enemy can’t break your tank they have to stop reping their own tank to counter) ECM Plating, random chance to break lock on anyone targeting ship. Increased damage caused by ramming. Every time ship receives damage drain cap from attacking ship. ---
**Author:** ![elitatwo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elitatwo/32/373473_2.png) [@elitatwo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/elitatwo)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2018, 6:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115/169 "2018-02-04T18:39:54Z")
> [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > they need unique roles - 99% reduction of capacitor needs and fitting for entosis links - Role bonus: cannot get scrammed while the entosis is cycling or ewar immunity during an entosis cycle Now assault ships can assault sov and be worth something. ---
**Author:** ![elitatwo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elitatwo/32/373473_2.png) [@elitatwo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/elitatwo)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2018, 6:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115/170 "2018-02-04T18:44:33Z")
> [@Stitch\_Kaneland](#): > > Coercer This one needs more targeting range. > [@Stitch\_Kaneland](#): > > The wolf using long range ammo does less damage …per second with artilleries but 2000 alpha on a frigate… ---
**Author:** ![Makshima\_Shogo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makshima_shogo/32/247769_2.png) [@Makshima\_Shogo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Makshima_Shogo)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2018, 6:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115/171 "2018-02-04T18:47:01Z")
2000 alpha isn’t much against other AF’s their buffer in their main tank type is over 2k so any damage done will be repped back up. That would be a very interesting roll bonus thou… +100% damage -50% rate of fire. Or 50% if its too op. Maybe higher % depending on ship so all AF’s get the same type of alpha. ---
**Author:** ![Zircon\_Dasher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zircon_dasher/32/36736_2.png) [@Zircon\_Dasher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zircon_Dasher)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2018, 6:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115/172 "2018-02-04T18:51:25Z")
> [@Makshima\_Shogo](#): > > -100% rate of fire I dont think you really want a 100% penalty lol. I think you mean start at 50% ---
**Author:** ![Makshima\_Shogo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makshima_shogo/32/247769_2.png) [@Makshima\_Shogo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Makshima_Shogo)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2018, 6:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115/173 "2018-02-04T18:51:56Z")
O oops haha My bad 😛 -50% yea. ---
**Author:** ![Stitch\_Kaneland](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stitch_kaneland/32/380745_2.png) [@Stitch\_Kaneland](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Stitch_Kaneland)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2018, 7:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115/174 "2018-02-04T19:29:30Z")
> [@elitatwo](#): > > > [@Stitch\_Kaneland](#): > > > > Coercer > > This one needs more targeting range. > > > [@Stitch\_Kaneland](#): > > > > The wolf using long range ammo does less damage > > …per second with artilleries but 2000 alpha on a frigate… A simple numbers check in EFT/Pyfa/EVE app shows 900 alpha at 15km on a dual gyro wolf using long range ammo. At the range a slicer operates at is about 110 dps that the wolf is projecting. You will **not** be getting 900 alpha at that range. Please don’t make up ridiculous numbers to try to prove your point. A svipul with 300+ dps has a 1900+ alpha. A wolf using short range ammo has a 1370 (220dps) volley at 7.5km. A wolf is not a svipul. Now, its easy to read numbers on a graph and say the wolf would lose to a slicer. But, i’ll be the first to admit a wolf would devastate a slicer due to the resist profile of the wolf against a slicer. Going up against something that could project explo/kin or hybrid would be a much different story. Lets say… a light missile hawk, corax, rail harpy, talwar and the new retribution would wreck a wolf (i’m sure i’m leaving some out, but i’m not going to spell them all out). I still stand by my point of changing literally nothing else except to move a high to a mid on the wolf and adjust its fittings and it would be a good ship. I’d even be fine with nerfing its speed some, as even i think its too fast for an assault frigate with the numbers CCP are proposing here. ---
**Author:** ![Sarinas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sarinas/32/51944_2.png) [@Sarinas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sarinas)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2018, 7:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115/175 "2018-02-04T19:52:00Z")
In the cargohold. ---
**Author:** ![elitatwo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elitatwo/32/373473_2.png) [@elitatwo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/elitatwo)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115/176 "2018-02-04T20:25:55Z")
> [@Stitch\_Kaneland](#): > > Going up against something that could project explo/kin or hybrid would be a much different story Yeah, a little later that same wolf succumbed to my rail-Harpy. I’m only upset that this arty-worf killed my Vengeance. > [@Stitch\_Kaneland](#): > > But, i’ll be the first to admit a wolf would devastate a slicer As a slicer pilot myself, a wolf is a good indicator to leave quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Makshima\_Shogo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makshima_shogo/32/247769_2.png) [@Makshima\_Shogo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Makshima_Shogo)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2018, 9:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115/177 "2018-02-04T21:18:57Z")
A retribution is actually a pretty close fight with a wolf, me and a retri had about a 3-4 min fight on Sisi was legendary, he did win thou eventually xD ---
**Author:** ![Kei\_Hazard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kei_hazard/32/245509_2.png) [@Kei\_Hazard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kei_Hazard)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2018, 12:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115/178 "2018-02-05T00:52:10Z")
more of a pain in the ass for the already ■■■■■■ SOV war. ---
**Author:** ![Bronson\_Hughes](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bronson_hughes/32/189075_2.png) [@Bronson\_Hughes](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bronson_Hughes)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2018, 2:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115/179 "2018-02-05T14:34:23Z")
I did call out the need to make more fitting adjustments, even though I only gave one example. They’ve all been historically a bit on the tight side, just some worse than others. ---
**Author:** ![Flyinghotpocket](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/flyinghotpocket/32/442077_2.png) [@Flyinghotpocket](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Flyinghotpocket)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2018, 11:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115/180 "2018-02-05T23:13:03Z")
changes help everything except the vengeance. vengeance is already good at not dieing and now its going to be even better at it. but while other ships get dps buffs like the retri and jag, vengeance is now the lowest damaging af in the game at a pitiful 150 dps. a more balance other than straight tank and a tad more dps would have been better. ---
**Author:** ![Muon\_Farstrider](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/muon_farstrider/32/454120_2.png) [@Muon\_Farstrider](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Muon_Farstrider)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2018, 1:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115/181 "2018-02-06T01:55:58Z")
Vengeance only has 150 dps if you fit no damage mods at all, at which point you shouldn’t be surprised that the dps is low. The issue with the jag was that it had 150 DPS _after_ fitting a BCU and a dps rig, which is just sad. Do the same thing on a vengeance and it’s over 200 dps, which is much more reasonable. Vengeance is only bad DPS if you go for an absolute max tank no DPS fit. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Szadek](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/count_szadek/32/413008_2.png) [@Count\_Szadek](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Count_Szadek)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2018, 4:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115/182 "2018-02-06T04:22:07Z")
Was hoping for a buff or the Muninn … I feel it is the one HAC (if you had to pick one) that really needed a buff/change. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115.md?page=8) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/februrary-balance-update-assault-frigates-and-assault-damage-controls/54115.md?page=10)