# First CSM Summit Meeting Minutes **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** devblog, csm\ **Created:** [September 27, 2019, 11:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645 "2019-09-27T11:39:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 12:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645/464 "2019-10-07T12:39:11Z")
So… They didn’t say what you want so it doesn’t count even though it got said… Wow… ---
**Author:** ![Wander\_Prian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wander_prian/32/394208_2.png) [@Wander\_Prian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wander_Prian)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 2:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645/465 "2019-10-07T14:34:30Z")
You aren’t going to get the apology you seem think you deserve. It was a test to see how people would react. They got data that they are going through now. If you think BO was the last large-scale change to nullsec to happen that you won’t like, you really should quit already, because it’s going to get rough in the near future. ---
**Author:** ![Circumstantial\_Evidence](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/circumstantial_evidence/32/399551_2.png) [@Circumstantial\_Evidence](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Circumstantial_Evidence)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 3:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645/466 "2019-10-07T15:38:37Z")
Thread is over, its all been said by this point. People going in circles now. ---
**Author:** ![Ikki\_Phoenix](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ikki_phoenix/32/391105_2.png) [@Ikki\_Phoenix](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ikki_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 3:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645/467 "2019-10-07T15:46:27Z")
I have no issues with changes. God knows how much change null sec needs. However again, there is a difference between changes that make sense and changes that are made simply because they have no idea what side their ass is. And as far as apology, it is an apology that everyone deserves from coalitions to the lowest pilot. > [@Circumstantial\_Evidence](#): > > Thread is over, its all been said by this point. People going in circles now. Honestly, I dont see it being over any time soon. If CCP gets the correct attitude and provides answers in Vegas, maybe, but I would not hold my breath. > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > So… They didn’t say what you want so it doesn’t count even though it got said… > Wow… What got said was simple bs and PR stunt. Their idea of chaos was to simply alienate a huge part of their players without even providing a good reason for it, except chaos that did not make any sense whatsoever ---
**Author:** ![Dragos\_Highwind](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dragos_highwind/32/170517_2.png) [@Dragos\_Highwind](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dragos_Highwind)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 5:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645/468 "2019-10-07T17:09:27Z")
> [@Ikki\_Phoenix](#): > > And as far as apology, it is an apology that everyone deserves from coalitions to the lowest pilot. lulz, entitlement ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 6:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645/469 "2019-10-07T18:39:18Z")
Question for CSM: was there a problem you brought to the summit CCP didn’t know about it? ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 7:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645/470 "2019-10-07T19:57:23Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Not to be a dick about it, Brisc, but none of that was crossposted to the EVE Online forums _by CCP_ . And you know, that _is_ a problem. Going on TiS is great and all, but let’s face it: that’s not here. They said they’d be doing their communication _here_ . And they’re not. 14,000+ posts in 2 threads on the Blackout. How many of those are from CCP? > > Two. Both of those are Falcon creating the threads. And then they stayed the hell away. Does it honestly make that big of a difference if it’s here posted by CCP? It was posted by other folks in threads that people saw. > [@Arrendis](#): > > 14,000 posts in two _feedback_ topics. Nothing from CCP. Falcon wasn’t even paying enough attention to notice the first thread had auto-locked until _after_ he merged another 2000+ post thread into it. And then he tweeted how awesome it was, _still without responding to a single thing in it_ . > > How many responses have they offered here? Sure, the community team’s new. Falcon isn’t. But he’d rather troll people on /r/eve. > > Maybe they should try actually having conversations here, where they told us they would. Fair enough. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 8:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645/471 "2019-10-07T20:12:36Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > Does it honestly make that big of a difference if it’s here posted by CCP? It does if those posts are supposed to be evidence of CCP communicating here. That’s all I’m saying. For all it may bruise Matterall’s ego, TiS doesn’t reach as many players as these forums do. ---
**Author:** ![Dragos\_Highwind](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dragos_highwind/32/170517_2.png) [@Dragos\_Highwind](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dragos_Highwind)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 9:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645/472 "2019-10-07T21:39:34Z")
Have you read these forums? This is hands down the single most toxic forum I have ever seen in my gaming career. The fact that CCP even posts at all here is a shock because they are almost immediately met with venomous posts form ungrateful people hiding behind forum alts. Just be happy they let people cry in a second forum post when the first one hit capacity. Many people LOVED the blackout, asking for an apology because people’s ego got hurt is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Ikki\_Phoenix](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ikki_phoenix/32/391105_2.png) [@Ikki\_Phoenix](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ikki_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 10:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645/473 "2019-10-07T22:18:23Z")
Stats are what they are. We didn’t have a drop out of population and people quitting because they loved the bo… ---
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 11:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645/474 "2019-10-07T23:07:08Z")
> [@Steve\_Ronuken](#): > > I don’t work for CCP. They don’t get to tell me, outside of the NDA and EULA (covering this forum), what I can and can’t say, and where I can and can’t say it. > > There are people who will not talk on these forums. Am I supposed to ignore them? I had no clue. Perhaps you could point me to a place where communication is better than here, then… Like where do people who don’t want to post here go? Thanks in advance. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Ronuken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/steve_ronuken/32/373894_2.png) [@Steve\_Ronuken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Steve_Ronuken)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 11:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645/475 "2019-10-07T23:07:33Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > 14,000+ posts in 2 threads on the Blackout It’s interesting to look at the statistics on those posts. How many of them were by the same small group of people. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Ronuken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/steve_ronuken/32/373894_2.png) [@Steve\_Ronuken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Steve_Ronuken)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 11:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645/476 "2019-10-07T23:09:22Z")
I didn’t say it was better. Personally I find a small degree of moderation to be a good thing. There are those who disagree, perhaps unwilling or unable to abide by the rules here. But you’re ignoring my question. Should I ignore them? ---
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 11:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645/477 "2019-10-07T23:35:07Z")
Never! I’m not questioning the validity of communication in other places. I just think some info should at least be centralized. I have posted about stuff just to find out it was cleared somewhere, hence why I’m hesitant. Honestly, I’d really like to know which is the preferred channel, if any. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 1:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645/478 "2019-10-08T01:01:37Z")
Indeed. _We_ were having a conversation, here on the official forums. Where CCP said they’d be. And where they’re not. Thanks for picking up on that. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Kynami\_Vaille](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kynami_vaille/32/229160_2.png) [@Kynami\_Vaille](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kynami_Vaille)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 3:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645/479 "2019-10-08T03:54:02Z")
This place is pretty damn tame compared to the forums for some other places. You want to see entitled whining? Oh boy! Just go visit the official forums for things like League of Legends or a couple of the really big gacha games. And then you will _really_ see some less than useful posts. Yes the primary PvP crowd is elitist and a bit toxic… but that goes for nearly every competitive game that exists. But entitlement? Man does this place have it good compared to the insane people who fail to wrap their head around how percentages in a gacha game work for example. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 2:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645/480 "2019-10-08T14:35:40Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > It does if those posts are supposed to be evidence of CCP communicating here. That’s all I’m saying. For all it may bruise Matterall’s ego, TiS doesn’t reach as many players as these forums do. I see dings against CCP for not communicating at all, and then I see it for not communicating here. I don’t particularly care where they are communicating, so long as they’re communicating. It will end up here eventually. Everything of value does. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 3:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645/481 "2019-10-08T15:36:26Z")
File it all under ‘communicating poorly, when at all’. And… who, exactly, gets to decide what’s ‘of value’? ---
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 3:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645/482 "2019-10-08T15:47:41Z")
I truly don’t have the time for this chase-me-all-over-social-media thing. Here, I ask questions about relevance of social media over Official Forums and get quick reaction. When the topic is the game, I go on the queue, I guess. Maybe my questions were answered somewhere, who cares?.. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 4:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645/483 "2019-10-08T16:05:20Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > File it all under ‘communicating poorly, when at all’. And… who, exactly, gets to decide what’s ‘of value’? Me. 🙂 [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645.md?page=23) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645.md?page=25)