# First CSM Summit Meeting Minutes **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** devblog, csm\ **Created:** [September 27, 2019, 11:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645 "2019-09-27T11:39:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 10:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645/41 "2019-09-27T22:22:27Z")
Last time CCP talked about attributes they shied away from removing them due to fears of the LP market. Is there any indication that this time will be different? Resource Wars, Please hit CCP hard about this and get them to realise the content was actually fine, it just had negative rewards, literally negative rewards for a lot of the items in the stores from it. If they give it some form of decent reward it will get run, there were groups that ran it for a while despite the lack of rewards. Weirdly if you want groups in highsec you need to reduce the number of stations. And please get CCP to acknowledge High & Low Sec more in these meetings. > [@Amanda\_Orion](#): > > This is the biggest load of bollocks I have EVER seen. > I watched the figures on eve-offline, and 13k is the lowest 36 hour average i have EVER seen. The MAU can still be high despite that, what it would mean is people are playing shorter sessions. ---
**Author:** ![Amanda\_Orion](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/amanda_orion/32/140284_2.png) [@Amanda\_Orion](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Amanda_Orion)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 10:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645/42 "2019-09-27T22:26:50Z")
It COULD have done that 2 years ago, or 4 years ago, or 8 months ago… It did it during the blackout. Coincidence, I’m sure… ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 10:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645/43 "2019-09-27T22:28:10Z")
I don’t get your paranoia here? You compared two stats and said because one was low the other couldn’t be high… I explained how it could be high. I’m really not understanding your response as it seems somewhat devoid of content. ---
**Author:** ![Amanda\_Orion](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/amanda_orion/32/140284_2.png) [@Amanda\_Orion](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Amanda_Orion)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 10:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645/44 "2019-09-27T22:33:36Z")
Seemed pretty clear to me. I’m speaking English. Maybe you need to brush up. ---
**Author:** ![Valiran\_Teleros](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valiran_teleros/32/504787_2.png) [@Valiran\_Teleros](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valiran_Teleros)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 10:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645/45 "2019-09-27T22:36:43Z")
So it seems that there are more people _in total_ logging in to EvE, they just aren’t logging in every day. That’s one load off my mind. Interdiction-nullified shuttles…honestly, that sounds like a good idea to me if they were a special advanced variant that couldn’t carry any cargo. Speaking from a lore perspective - which I’ll readily admit is my most-used lens for viewing this game - it always sounded like nullification was a pretty advanced technology that should require T3 ships or modules to use, minimum. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 10:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645/46 "2019-09-27T22:46:16Z")
Here’s my thoughts at a glance (just a short novel) I do hope CCP aren’t just going off half cocked again when it comes to issues in Sov Nul. Case in point - From the CSM minutes; . > CCP Fozzie says that it is possible to use system-wide effects and just every couple of months select one third of nullsec regions randomly to remove remote repairs. While at a quick glance this looks good it has more downsides than positives. As a member of a smaller Sov holding group we field a lot of logi because for much of the time we are fighting numbers that far exceed our own - The ability to field a lot of logi allows us to hold our own in these types of fights. If CCP were to remove the ability to effectively use logi or use it at all for a period of time, our little group would end up losing everything we have worked and fought for. OR we could just align with one of the major Blocs and add to the overall stagnation. Joining a Bloc would ensure our Sov would be safe as they would not be affected by removing remote reps in their space simply because MORE NUMBERS will always win. > CCP Rise finally saves my fingers and steps in and says that Aryth is right **that if there is a chance of losing then they are going to try and get kills** and logistics prevent that right now. Damn so wrong - If there is a chance of losing - - Most simply won’t fight. Logistics is the key to every fight in nulsec but its not faxes or subcap logistics - It comes down to the logistics of WHO CAN GET THE MOST BODIES ON GRID. Many “fights” are won and lost due to how big the fleet you are opposing is, much of the time without a single shot being fired. > CCP Fozzie says that this is the scale where anti logistics electronic warfare would be viable as a mechanic Sadly this is a self perpetuating problem - Ewar ships (especially shield doctrines) typically have very little tanking ability, which leads to MORE logi being required to try and keep them alive. Silly suggestion maybe - Move EWAR mods to highslots, disallow remote reps while mods are active but give them something like siege module with a short duration but high effectiveness. 100% DPS safety while active but still be vulnerable to opposing Ewar for counter play. It should have a short duration (60 seconds) long cooldown (2 or 3 minutes) between cycles. Can still activate Ewar mods without “siege” but you are more vulnerable. The Ewar applied should be based on hull size - So if a Falcon is trying to jam a tackle Frigate Ewar is less effective than if he is targeting a Fax or a Super capital. * * * Cyno changes put down to in part - Slowing down the movement of goods between nul and highsec. Again, has little affect on large groups while hitting smaller groups much harder. * * * If CCP’s goal is to drive all smaller groups out of Sov space or force them to align with the few Blocs - What is talked about in the CSM minutes is a great next step in that direction. Sov NEEDS more small groups who will fight for what they have, without fear of simply being stomped by one of the Blocs when their members get bored.,. Right now for small/er groups NOT FIGHTING is the best defence against the Blocs.,. ---
**Author:** ![Ikki\_Phoenix](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ikki_phoenix/32/391105_2.png) [@Ikki\_Phoenix](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ikki_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 10:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645/47 "2019-09-27T22:57:38Z")
Didnt read the whole transcript, but only read the blackout page and basically this gives absolutely nothing. And wonder what the purpose of the CSM is if they dont even challenge CCP over their stupidity…As far as our friend @Olmeca_Gold, he really needs to stop giving his opinion on anything related to null sec operations. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 11:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645/48 "2019-09-27T23:12:04Z")
> [@Xelios](#): > > Big shout out to those 20% responsible for Triglavian PvE content. That’s what those 20% are working on. That’s _it_. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 11:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645/49 "2019-09-27T23:31:55Z")
CCP dropped the ball a long time ago. Good luck getting a grip on it again. [Disturbed - Land Of Confusion [Official Music Video]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YV4oYkIeGJc) [ ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/d/5/d548eb1104ffca10df43198026c463dae8e87f4a.png) Disturbed - Land Of Confusion [Official Music Video] New album ‘Evolution’ out now: https://disturbed.lnk.to/evolution Chicago, Illinois metal band Disturbed has suc… ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YV4oYkIeGJc) As it’s still nice weather here, I’ll read the minutes later and see if there is a “Hero” among the bunch. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 11:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645/50 "2019-09-27T23:52:48Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > The MAU can still be high despite that, what it would mean is people are playing shorter sessions. Or it could and probably did mean - many were just logging in for free SP and not actually 'playing" the game. MAU is great for CCP, it gives them an idea of how many login, it may not be so good for players if too many just log in and don’t actually engage in any sort of game play. If 100,000 individual subscribed players log in over 24 hours it is good for CCP but if only 10% of those actually engage in the Eve universe - Things is grim.,. CCP being so proud of the MAU while there is rampant stagnancy throughout the game (not just in nulsec) it shows there is REAL problems at the top level of CCP management. ---
**Author:** ![Valiran\_Teleros](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valiran_teleros/32/504787_2.png) [@Valiran\_Teleros](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valiran_Teleros)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 12:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645/51 "2019-09-28T00:33:55Z")
> [@Eivar](#): > > You have to be hearing some of the chat in newbie corps. Combative, racist, inflammatory, often punctuated by slander against proposed newbie ship fittings or the person(s) proposing them. If this fits with your ideal for either “human interaction” or “retention” of new players, or heck…illustrates the type of player you want to retain…then tl;dr here. Otherwise, newbie corp chats need sharp and concise rules. Don’t ban the player, ban the chat. They can be as off-putting as they like when they get to their corps. This. I’m all for allowing skullduggery when it comes to actual gameplay because it makes EvE unique and fun, and I’m about as law-abiding as it gets! But when people start hurling around racist slurs, death threats, and other general nastiness? _That’s_ where I draw the line; I don’t care if if I’m in a game that lets me play as a goddamn _axe murderer_, I don’t want to see toxic behavior in the chat or anywhere else. > [@Eivar](#): > > - Honestly, CCP, it’s 2019 and you’re admitting you don’t already… /facepalm Yeah, I like to think the best of people but that got me raising _both_ eyebrows. > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Last time CCP talked about attributes they shied away from removing them due to fears of the LP market. Maybe make faction implants give better bonuses? > [@leavwiz](#): > > the discussion about changing “rewards” sort of went bad in a hurry. The good idea of having npcs drop minerals (remember alloys) was almost ignored , instead the totally stupid idea of replacing bounties with tags was suggested. Really,? yet another thing that has to get carted off somewhere via convoluted hauling chains for eventual reward is not going to go well with the PVE crowd. Here’s an idea: rats in null drop tags which can be turned in at certain NPC stations in null. Have one per constellation or thereabouts. Is that an idea with any merit, or are there a bunch of reasons _not_ to do it that I’m just not seeing? ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 12:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645/52 "2019-09-28T00:46:22Z")
> [@leavwiz](#): > > The good idea of having npcs drop minerals Is actually a terrible idea. Gun mining was bad. We don’t ever want to bring it back. Miners should be the source of minerals, not ratters. ---
**Author:** ![Kenja\_Saissore](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kenja_saissore/32/141301_2.png) [@Kenja\_Saissore](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kenja_Saissore)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 12:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645/53 "2019-09-28T00:55:38Z")
+1 would read again. Also would pay extra if lowsec could even become collateral damage. ever. plz? ---
**Author:** ![Lumukanda\_Theleraese](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lumukanda_theleraese/32/432858_2.png) [@Lumukanda\_Theleraese](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lumukanda_Theleraese)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 1:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645/54 "2019-09-28T01:30:35Z")
Not a bad read and will admit I had some reservations but overall a fairly good discussion about some of the issues. Especially interested in the part about playstyle diversity and seeing what happens with this in the future. “CCP Rise finally saves my fingers” These sorts of comments in the minutes gave me some laughs. ---
**Author:** ![VeryBadLarry](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/verybadlarry/32/323835_2.png) [@VeryBadLarry](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/VeryBadLarry)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 1:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645/55 "2019-09-28T01:52:57Z")
![20190927_214803](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/9/e/9eb351b117dbe8c56c00ad1bb9c0598118c1aa7e.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Jerry\_Falcone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jerry_falcone/32/167073_2.png) [@Jerry\_Falcone](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jerry_Falcone)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 2:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645/56 "2019-09-28T02:55:54Z")
thats what she said ---
**Author:** ![Ash\_Beldrulf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ash_beldrulf/32/473706_2.png) [@Ash\_Beldrulf](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ash_Beldrulf)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 4:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645/57 "2019-09-28T04:10:33Z")
In the immortal words of Chief Wiggum: “Oh boy, this is gonna get worse before it gets better…” ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 4:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645/58 "2019-09-28T04:22:43Z")
Was chief Wiggum on the CSM? 😏 ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 5:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645/59 "2019-09-28T05:00:05Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Is actually a terrible idea. > Gun mining was bad. We don’t ever want to bring it back. Miners should be the source of minerals, not ratters. Innominate clarified on Open Comms tonight that that statement was sarcasm, because basically everyone there except Olmeca remembers the bad old days of gun mining. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 5:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645/60 "2019-09-28T05:01:47Z")
Oh sure, I figured any CSM comment on that had to be sarcastic, but that didn’t mean the poster I was replying to was being sarcastic, they sure seemed serious. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/first-csm-summit-meeting-minutes/192645.md?page=4)